Who's Watching The Grand Final This Weekend?

[Saints1]

Definitely a red - all day long. No debate unless you're an absolute moron.

I guess a lot of opinions will be divided between those that think Flower threw his second punch knowing that Hohaia was knocked out and those that don't.
I don't think he did, tbh.

Totally agreed - but people are trying to argue otherwise. And I thought that Flower knew exactly what he was doing myself - that was right in front of me, I had a clear view of the whole incident. He knew full well he'd sparked Hohaia.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Second punch Flower threw was over the top but in RL if you forearm somebody in the face you can't complain he clocks you one</p>&mdash; MartinChariotsOffiah (@martinoffiah) <a href="https://twitter.com/martinoffiah/status/520997120242102272">October 11, 2014</a></blockquote><script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>You play with fire you get burnt man. Lance Ohia will never attack Ben Flower again</p>&mdash; MartinChariotsOffiah (@martinoffiah) <a href="https://twitter.com/martinoffiah/status/520997554587447296">October 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Actually feel a bit sorry for Ben Flower. Lance started it with his elbow. Superb 1st dig from Flower. 2nd when he's KO'd is out of order.</p>&mdash; Joseph Barton (@Joey7Barton) <a href="https://twitter.com/Joey7Barton/status/520997472437829632">October 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>In my eyes if you go round throwing digs and you get put a sleep, you get minimal sympathy. Its not draughts after all. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SuperLeague?src=hash">#SuperLeague</a></p>&mdash; Joseph Barton (@Joey7Barton) <a href="https://twitter.com/Joey7Barton/status/520998074173644800">October 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ben Flower - his first punch was retaliation for a cheap shot on him; second one was unforgiveable.</p>&mdash; Brian Moore (@brianmoore666) <a href="https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/521009845118713856">October 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
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...

Just to take another angle ... not that I agree with it happening ...

Duncan Ferguson was put in prison for his headbutt and Cantona for assaulting the Palace fan too. So I know what stays on the pitch stays there, but there could be a possibility that Fowler could see the police come knocking at his door if someone reports Flower to the police.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can sort of get it.
First cheap shot was cowardly and OTT, but not massively surprising - you see a shot like that every now and then in rugby.

Second shot was disgusting. First shot deserves a ban, second you should be looking at whether he's welcome back next season at all.
I mean he rolled the unconscious player over so he could punch him square in the face again. It was just disgusting.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Duncan Ferguson headbutted someone in a non-contact sport without physical provocation.
Not quite the same as being punched for giving someone a running forearm smash.

 

[Saints1]

The first punch was a cracker, the second was completely, totally and utterly cowardly.

 

[SelimNiai]

The first punch was a cracker, the second was completely, totally and utterly cowardly.

Not as a cracker as this one

Anyway, anything Joey Barton tweets is automatically disregarded

 

[Peat]

Red card and a good long ban. Saw it suggested that 8 games is what it might be in-line with SL rules.

I think what gets peoples backs up is when it's suggested that the police/lawers should get involved.
It's a contact sport and should be judged in the context of that - you can't just say "if he did that on the street, then..." because if it was on the street Hohaia would also be charged with assault.

I agree it's a different context, but that was far beyond the acceptable context of the sport.

I'd feel very uneasy about getting police involved in sport for incidents like this, because that is the start of a slippery slope, but I do feel that jail time would be justified for that. If anything deserves police getting involved, its that. There should certainly be a precedent setting ban.

Also, watched the incident a few times now but not great quality, but looks to me like Flowers starts it - he pushes Hohaia, Hohaia responds with some weird push/jump thing, then...

 

[Saints1]

I hope he gets a long ban but as the team on the receiving end I'll take the red card two minutes into a final. Not so sure we need to be getting the police involved.

 

[SelimNiai]

The problem with the whole police matter is how do you determine what incidents get referred? Is a spear tackle to a players neck and head area, which can actually have worse consequences than a punch to the face, a "criminal" act?

Wouldnt Hohaia have to make a complaint to police in the first instant anyway?

 

[Saints1]

A few people are discussing this. I'm no lawyer but my understanding is that if a member of the crowd reported it to the police (in this instance GMP) then it could, only could, result in prosecution.

It really is going to be a huge talking point for a long time - I have been sent off for fighting in my career and fought with someone on the ground as I put them into a wrestling submission hold, but at no point were they unconscious. I don't think it has ever happened before. It is definitely well in the top five of the most cowardly things I have ever seen.

 

[Peat]

While I agree with what you say Selim - it bothers me at least that my arguments against him being prosecuted lie more in the affect on the sport and less in what happens the player.

 

[SelimNiai]

While I agree with what you say Selim - it bothers me at least that my arguments against him being prosecuted lie more in the affect on the sport and less in what happens the player.

The onus for it affecting the sport is on the RFL. If they are seen to be saying "this just is plain unacceptable" then the affect won't be as much if they don't to enough/anything.

I'd also expect/demand a public apology from Flower aswell, even if just as a PR stunt

 

[TRF_Olyy]

On a non-fight related note - Did Jonny Wilkinson present Wigan with their jerseys?
Just seen a photo of it!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Duncan Ferguson headbutted someone in a non-contact sport without physical provocation.
Not quite the same as being punched for giving someone a running forearm smash.

No, sorry I'm referring to the second punch because hitting someone after sort of rolling them-over for a second punch whilst they were already out for the count is not acceptable.

Football is also a debatable contact / non-contact sport with nothing ever agreed over it.

Going back to Ferguson, if you watch the video there's is a bit of provocation. Not as much as what happened here mind. Ferguson's reaction was OTT.

A few people are discussing this. I'm no lawyer but my understanding is that if a member of the crowd reported it to the police (in this instance GMP) then it could, only could, result in prosecution.

It really is going to be a huge talking point for a long time - I have been sent off for fighting in my career and fought with someone on the ground as I put them into a wrestling submission hold, but at no point were they unconscious. I don't think it has ever happened before. It is definitely well in the top five of the most cowardly things I have ever seen.

Correct if a member of the public reports it then it becomes a police matter. Whether to be seen if it happens here.

On a non-fight related note - Did Jonny Wilkinson present Wigan with their jerseys?
Just seen a photo of it!

Ye seems he did.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...gue-grand-final-presents-players-jerseys.html

 

[Jbobo]

Not as a cracker as this one

Anyway, anything Joey Barton tweets is automatically disregarded

I'm sorry but the way he puts his arms up in protest and then pushes the other guy off and then continues the protest had me in stitches after watching the gif 3 times hahahaha

 

[SimonG]

That guy who got the red should also face Police action for assault. I have never seen a clearer case on a rugby field......utter disgrace.

It was a criminal offence. The worst I've seen though was the assault by the Aussie Duncan McRae on Ronan O'Gara in the 2001 Lions tour. Whereas that fella at the weekend threw one punch on a defenceless man on the ground, the Aussie fella threw at least half a dozen, and then smiled as he walked off. Think the Aussie term for such folk is bogan.

Rugby codes have always gone just beyond the standard physicality of the game...in terms of off field the Trevor Brennan assault was probably the worst incident.

What happened yesterday was a real shame as I enjoy watching the Grand Final (only Rugby League game I or most non Rugby League folks in the UK watch)...and that ruined the game. it's the biggest club Rugby game (either code) in the country and has a day in the spotlight, and for the only thing that most folk are talking about is an assault is a pity for the game. Wigan put up a great fight regardless but ultimately it cost them.

Not as a cracker as this one

Anyway, anything Joey Barton tweets is automatically disregarded

Oh what occured at the weekend was a minor scuffle in comparison to Aussie Rules. Aussie Rules ain't a sport though. It's a hoofball lottery where steroid induced bogans aimlessly whack the thing upfield...in between kicking/punching the sxxt out of each other. Our Gaelic fellas play against them in the international rules series, and being an amateur game clean of steroids they don't have the built up frames of Aussie Rules folk, thus invariably get a good hiding (often beat them in the actual scores mind).

 

[Thingimubob]

@GaryLineker If only other team sports could match the on-field behaviour of football.
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Yupp, cracking piece of trolling by Lineker :lol: fair play to the man!<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" style="display: none;"></iframe>

 

[j'nuh]

People who commit flagrantly wrong acts like Flower did end up in jail/with big fines for numerous reasons. I think the most important two are:
1. Punishment
2. Deterrence

If we want to stop the authorities getting involved, then sports bodies in general have to be much better at providing an alternative to the legal system that offers the above principals. Mickey mouse punishments that involve single-digit numbers of weeks should not happen.

Three year ban, I'd say?

 

[ajwffc]

You can't compare Duncan Ferguson getting jailed for his headbutt to this as he had already had three conventions for assault before the butt on McStay. Cantona never got any jail time but got 120hr community service(he was sentenced to 2 weeks in jailed but it got reduced on appeal).

 

[Tony Manx]

Ferguson and Cantona were in a different era and McRae a different country!!

Interesting that the Police say that they have not received one complaint from the Public............?

It is looking like anything from an 8 week to life ban. I would accept nothing less than 52 weeks whcih is what French Union players got for gouging which is just as dangerous but probably less controllable than rolliing over an unconcious player to ensure you hit him in the eye as Flower seemed to do!