Who is your all-time All Black 15?

[Nickdnz]

I was just questioning a few selections

 

[jawmalawm24]

What about just pick the invincibles for back in the days they never lost a game and pick Buck Shelfords team never lost a game during his time as captain.

 

[Juggernaut]

Well this is MY all-time favourite XV:

1. Craig Dowd
2. Keven Mealamu
3. Olo Brown
4. Chris Jack
5. Robin Brooke
6. Michael Jones
7. Richie McCaw
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. Graeme Bachop
10. Carlos Spencer
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Walter Little
13. Frank Bunce
14. Jeff Wilson
15. Christian Cullen

16. Sean Fitzpatrick, 17. Carl Hayman, 18. Ian Jones, 19. Josh Kronfeld, 20. Byron Kelleher, 21. Andrew Mehrtens, 22. Tana Umaga

 

[Jethro]

No one picking BJ Williams or Fergie or Macrae ... tsk tsk. Also hugely surprised no one has gone for Alan Hewson LOL

 

[Ripper]

1. Olo Brown
2. Sean Fizpatrick (Someone actually put Mealamu... lay down the crackpipe buddy)
3. Craig Dowd
4. Ian Jones
5. Robin Brooke
6. Ian Kirkpatrick
7. Michael Jones (We'll schedule all our games for Friday's and Saturday's)
8. Zinzan Brooke

9. Graham Bachop (Justin Marshall can go blow me, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Canterbury, let alone the All Blacks if Bachop didn't get Yen crazy)
10. Grant Fox
11. John Kirwan
12. Walter Little
13. Frank Bunce
14. Jonah Lomu
15. Christian Cullen

16. Carl Hayman
17. Andy Dalton
18. Ali Williams
19. Richie McCaw
20. Sid Going
21. Jeff Wilson
22. Daniel Carter

 

[i08tkersten.08]

I think that kirwan is actually a better wing than wilson, setting aside the era thing, he was bigger stronger and I think more clever than wilson, he also had a lot of pace. I would bet on him to score when you needed a try rather than wilson.

 

[MunsterMan]

Lomu, Cullen and Wilson B)

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (allblacks4thecup @ Nov 4 2009, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think that kirwan is actually a better wing than wilson, setting aside the era thing, he was bigger stronger and I think more clever than wilson, he also had a lot of pace. I would bet on him to score when you needed a try rather than wilson.[/b]

Wilson as an added bonus set up far more tries then Kirwan did, also Jeff scored more tries. I mean I know those qualities don't make him a better winger, but it is hard to argue that Kirwan is a better player. Kirwan scored 35 tries in 63 All Blacks matches, where as Jeff Wilson scored 44 tries in 60 tests. Again I know this dosn't mean he is a better, but statistically Wilson has to be considered a better player.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Oct 2 2009, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ngapuhi @ Oct 2 2009, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt you'd find a better loose forward combination than that. Mike Brewer was a good flanker i liked as well. I think it has excellent balance in there if I say so myself.[/b]

It just so happens I think I have >.> Robin Brooke, really? I mean he was a solid lock, but people such as Ian Jones, Chris Jack and I'd go as far to say Brad Thorne were better...I'd rate Andrew Mehrtens well above Grant Fox, and I'd rate both Marsall and Kelleher above Kirk (despite the fact Kirk didn't play in the professional erra). Richard Loe over Olo Brown and Tony Woodcock? Interesting call as Richard Loe was a tough guy, but I think the other two were a little bit better. Michael Jones over Jerry Collins...it can be argued sure. Not really my first choice Ngapuhi. The modern game refers to the Professional erra which was realistically from about 1994 onwards...
[/b][/quote]

Martin Johnson played with and against Robin Brooke and said that he was the toughest opponent he had ever faced. Robin Brooke was tactically one of the best lineout exponents to have played the game. And Micheal Jones is one of the first names down on any greatest of all time teams. He changed the way the game was played. Jerry doesnt come close.

 

[Nickdnz]

I prefer Collins over Jones, I did mention it was just my preference. Robin Brooke was good, but I'd rate both Ian Jones and even Chris Jack, Ali Williams and Brad Thorne on the same par, if not better. I am not saying Brooke wasn't good, but just not perhaps as good as a few other options (In my opinion)

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 5 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I prefer Collins over Jones, I did mention it was just my preference. Robin Brooke was good, but I'd rate both Ian Jones and even Chris Jack, Ali Williams and Brad Thorne on the same par, if not better. I am not saying Brooke wasn't good, but just not perhaps as good as a few other options (In my opinion)[/b]

How old are you? i cant believe you would rate those guys anywhere near Robin Brooke if you had actually seen him play. Could you at least say why? what were his flaws and what, in your opinion, makes those players better?

The same with Jerry over Micheal Jones.. it boggles the mind really

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 6 2009, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 5 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I prefer Collins over Jones, I did mention it was just my preference. Robin Brooke was good, but I'd rate both Ian Jones and even Chris Jack, Ali Williams and Brad Thorne on the same par, if not better. I am not saying Brooke wasn't good, but just not perhaps as good as a few other options (In my opinion)[/b]

How old are you? i cant believe you would rate those guys anywhere near Robin Brooke if you had actually seen him play. Could you at least say why? what were his flaws and what, in your opinion, makes those players better?

The same with Jerry over Micheal Jones.. it boggles the mind really
[/b][/quote]
I prefer Jerry Collins over Michael Jones for a purley entertainment value of Collin's tackles, as well as in many ways I prefered Jones in the #7 jersey , and I never really rated Robin Brooke as highly as I rated several other locks, in which I all ways thought he was never as good as his locking partener Ian Jones. Brooke's value was that he seemed to play a leading role in the AB's sucess, he was sort of a talisman. As a line out jumper I think you have over rated him. He had a very good work rate, but was not of any real use with the ball in hand. I'm not saying he wasn't a good lock, because it was a big toss up between Williams and Brooke, but I chose Williams because I think his all around game was better. Again this is my opinion, and I really don't need to explain it.

 

[alexrugby]

I do not really think about all the 15 players but one thing I know

In any team (dream team) I would collect, I would definitely call this man:

 

[bates]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Nov 6 2009, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I do not really think about all the 15 players but one thing I know

In any team (dream team) I would collect, I would definitely call this man:

[/b]

Completely agree with you.
Ali Williams would be on my team as well, as almost every coach put me out as a lock he actually is a great example for me :lol:

Ali for president

 

[jawmalawm24]

Yep I'd call predator too but maybe back when he was a winger because he had some massive pace shown in the greatest rugby match of all time All Blacks vs Wallabies 2000. Also he's well spoken and doesn't say ahhh, you know or umm all the time in his interviews.

 

[candybum]

Don't forget the old 'oh yeah definitely'

 

[wjd23104]

1Olo Brown
2Fitzy
3Carl Hayman
4Ian Jones
5Colin Meads
6Micheal Jones
7McCaw
8Zinzan Brooke

9Justin Marhsall
10Carter
11Jonah
12Tana Umaga
13Frank Bunce
14Wilson
!5Christian Cullen

 

[Nickdnz]

I slightly prefer Umaga at 13, because he never had quite the amount of pace as other wingers of his time (not saying he was slow, he definetly was a fast winger), but at 12 it seems some of his running skills are wasted and his lack of a kicking game, while not really a problem of the time, the ways games are run now, it is prefered. Centre was his best position in my opinion, he had great attacking skills combines with great distribution, tackleing and leadership which he could be use in centre. That being said I put him at 12 because I wanted room for Frank Bunce. That being said if it came down to the crunch between Umaga or Bunce, I would choose Umaga.

While I'm not a big person in mixing generations, I believe Joe Stanley would also earn a spot in a dream team. Does Comrad Smith remind anyone of Joe Stanley, in the way that both make so little mistakes and just seem to do everything right?

 

[i08tkersten.08]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 4 2009, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (allblacks4thecup @ Nov 4 2009, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that kirwan is actually a better wing than wilson, setting aside the era thing, he was bigger stronger and I think more clever than wilson, he also had a lot of pace. I would bet on him to score when you needed a try rather than wilson.[/b]

Wilson as an added bonus set up far more tries then Kirwan did, also Jeff scored more tries. I mean I know those qualities don't make him a better winger, but it is hard to argue that Kirwan is a better player. Kirwan scored 35 tries in 63 All Blacks matches, where as Jeff Wilson scored 44 tries in 60 tests. Again I know this dosn't mean he is a better, but statistically Wilson has to be considered a better player.
[/b][/quote]
Just like I said, its one thing scoring alot of tries but when your team is behind and you really need a try, I think a stronger, larger player will have a better chance of doing this. Kirwan could break tackles but with Wilson, the opposition could just close him down and there would be nothing he could do. The statistics dont say it all. Kirwan did set up tries as well, have a look for some highlights of the World Cup 1987, in the game against Argentina, he beat about four players and set up Zinzan to score.

 

[Randwick Kingfisher]

Nickdnz I'm sure your a 24yrs of age or younger. You seem to like more of the professional players then the pioneer players (i.e:- Wilson over Kirwan, Collins over Jones etc....) which is your opinion but if you could see the old days when an all-black loss was once in a blue moon thing. These days the all blacks lose a lot more then they did back then.

Whats the ultimate factor when comparing Kirwan to Wilson, Jones to Collins apart from being trendsetters to world rugby?

Kirwan and Jones were world champs. Collins and Wilson.....well they good players but they were never world champs.