Who do the English want to beat the most?

[Tooting Carmen]

Since most other teams (except Italy and NZ, albeit for rather different reasons) want to beat England more than anyone else, who do the English themselves want to beat the most?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Six Nations: Ireland or France

Globally: Australia for the rivalry, All Blacks for the prestige

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

We don't go in for these petty rivalries.

But Wales. Definitely Wales.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Who I want us to beat the most is the All Blacks, no question, because they have been the benchmark for as long as I can remember, and beating the best is more important than local rivalries.

"Who do you least want to lose to?" is a question of rivalry though. And for me the answer is Wales - partly because it's a fairly even rivalry, partly because they seem to care the most, largely because their obnoxious minority of fans (which every country has) is waaaaaay more obnoxious when England are involved.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Stuart Hogg punching the air RN

 

[Every Time Ref]

View attachment 8375
Stuart Hogg punching the air RN

 

[ncurd]

Who I want us to beat the most is the All Blacks, no question, because they have been the benchmark for as long as I can remember, and beating the best is more important than local rivalries.

"Who do you least want to lose to?" is a question of rivalry though. And for me the answer is Wales - partly because it's a fairly even rivalry, partly because they seem to care the most, largely because their obnoxious minority of fans (which every country has) is waaaaaay more obnoxious when England are involved.

Pretty much this although ABs fans can get pretty obnoxious. Wales has gotten larger in the Gatland years though I certainly don't remember anyone in England giving much of a damn when they weren't competing for honours. Suspect it was similar when Wales were whipping everyone in the 70's.

But honestly I don't want to beat any team more than any other beating the ABs is always special mainly due to the lack of games. But do I want to beat them more than any other team, nope?

 

[BPM]

I'm the same. Before the semi finals last year, I was chatting to a Welsh mate and I said that in some ways an England vs. Wales final is 'either my dream or my nightmare'.

For the same reasons as ETR, I take most satisfaction from beating NZ and hate losing to Wales the most.

Losing to Ireland also holds a special dread for me given my wife is Irish. She doesn't care, but her family love to give me stick for months after.

Although having said all of that, the way Bok fans have been since the RWC (I genuinely see that score posted on almost a daily basis on social media - even on completely irrelevant posts), I really, REALLY want to beat them and beat them well.

 

[Which Tyler]

Australia and France are the big rivalries. Australia in all sports, France in all things.
NZ are the usual "want to beat the best"

Welsh come 4th, and only that high as they're the most obnoxious towards us.

It's similar at club level (for Bath, at least). Leicester are the big rivals, as the took our "crown". Gloucester are our local rivals, we only really care about Bristol as their fans are the most gobby towards us. Sarries and Exeter are the best. Performances against Glous and Leics define our season.

 

[BPM]

Club level it is Saracens and London Irish for me

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Used to be France back in the 90s for me.
Now Defo Wales.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

In terms of wanting to win for the achievement - New Zealand
In terms of simply not wanting to lose to them because their fans are gobby - Wales and Australia.

I didn't used to mind SA but their fans have been ridiculous since the world cup final. Never known a WC finalist to continue getting so much **** flung at them. They are like the Welsh after 2013, constantly just bringing up the scoreline from that game as if that defines all rugby.

 

[sCriv]

For me as an Englishman it's definitely Wales, mainly to silence their annoying fans.

 

[TRF_heineken]

In terms of wanting to win for the achievement - New Zealand
In terms of simply not wanting to lose to them because their fans are gobby - Wales and Australia.

I didn't used to mind SA but their fans have been ridiculous since the world cup final. Never known a WC finalist to continue getting so much **** flung at them. They are like the Welsh after 2013, constantly just bringing up the scoreline from that game as if that defines all rugby.

We were the underdogs remember?? Some even gave us no chance before that game. And the cherry on top was Kolbe BUUUUUUURNNNNING Farrell. We will rub it in. Mostly because there is this inherent sporting hatred for the Poms. Give us that little bit of joy. We don't have much else going for us...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

We were the underdogs remember?? Some even gave us no chance before that game. And the cherry on top was Kolbe BUUUUUUURNNNNING Farrell. We will rub it in. Mostly because there is this inherent sporting hatred for the Poms. Give us that little bit of joy. We don't have much else going for us...

There is a difference between rubbing it in a bit when it is relevant and just going on about the score in things where it isn't relevant to the conversation. The Welsh did it for 3/4 years after 2013 and now South Africa are doing the same. It was tedious then, it's tedious again. There is such a thing as being "bad winners".

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We were the underdogs remember??

It was evens, actually - and you were favourites going into the tournament (well, NZ were, with SA marginally behind - both far ahead of England).

Weird how the narrative has twisted so much since the tournament.

 

[The Seeker]

Since most other teams (except Italy and NZ, albeit for rather different reasons) want to beat England more than anyone else, who do the English themselves want to beat the most?

 

[RedruthRFC]

It was evens, actually - and you were favourites going into the tournament (well, NZ were, with SA marginally behind - both far ahead of England).

Weird how the narrative has twisted so much since the tournament.

This agrees with my recollection - England were 1/2 going in to the final. https://www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/rugby-world-cup-2019/rugby-world-cup-odds-100026

According to this page https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/rugby-world-cup-2019-winners-3343981, England and SA were joint second favourties before a ball was kicked, significantly longer than NZ.

It indeed weird how things get twisted!

The media tend to place far to much emphasis on recent results and nowhere near enough on other factors, hence England's price after a dominant win over NZ and SA's turgid win over Wales. The same quality of thinking gives is the current SA >>> everyone else narrative.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

According to this page https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/rugby-world-cup-2019-winners-3343981, England and SA were joint second favourties before a ball was kicked, significantly longer than NZ.

Blimey, I didn't realise we were that high up pre-tournament,
I thought it was NZ closely followed by SA, then some daylight, then England/Wales pretty much evens