What is wrong up there?

[THE CHIROPRACTOR101]

so whats up with the north?



after watching france vs argentina,ireland vs georgia,all blacks vs italy,england vs whoever and wales vs aussie..i find myself questioning you fellas much like the welsh commentry did during the wales/aussie clash "whats wrong with the northern hemisphere teams"



if argentina beat ireland (which i think will happen by a considerably big margin) then that means france and ireland will face off in there very own sudden death match to claim a play off berth..and if ireland were to progress in that form then they might aswell commit suicide..in the form that england is playin in (which is literally pointless) samoa will have there strongest chance since 99 of gainin a world cup play off berth...even so,i believe a casualtie list will be given to the english after the match with manu and it will not bode well for them if they do enter playoff round..then we have fiji and wales...some say fiji can upset aussie with there unpredictable play..but the game they are going to target (if they beat the canucks) will be the welsh who look about thin the backline



so what is wrong with the north?...after watching irelands forwards getting pushed around by the georgians and the pace of the french and english backs get run off the track..im forced to believe you guys have nothing (on top of all that!!! the level of depth which is equal to a shallow puddle that an ant couldnt drown in)



please prove me wrong!!!..because this is looking like a three horse race between the trination teams..and if this was the case we shouldve just had another tournament of the trination series with argentina included for entertainment value



to be fair..we are yet to see these northern teams at there best..(if theres ever a best in there vocab) but we shall see within the next week or so how things go..im hoping for a more solid and challenging performance from you northerners..see..thats what happens when you guys go about and buy all our players..dont have enough brains to build ya own star players and when you do..they are few and far between (wilkinson?...where?)



if france,ireland,england and the welsh make the finals then im pretty sure they will rise to the occasion but you gotta do the ground work in the play offs..mate



tofa soifua

~ chiro

 

[Mr. Laxative]

Well said Chiro. I'm seeing that as well. It's really disappointing, but still provding for some good rugby matches - eg. Namibia-Ireland, Georgia-Ireland. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if none of the home nations made the finals... wouldn't that be a turn up!!!

Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, Italy, South Africa, Samoa/Tonga, France, Argentina...
That would be an incredibly interesting finals series, wouldn't it?

 

[mackka]

I've gotta say that I don't think Wales played too badly at all against Australia. I mean, their first half wasn't fantastic but in the second half they controlled possession and really threatened on anumber of occaisions. And this was without Thomas, who is a pivotal member of the team. WHile the Aussies certinaly didn't play all that well in the second half, Wales really took it to them and for my money, despite their first half against Canada, are far and away the bets performing NH team so far.

 

[scuubasteve]

Scotland hasn't dissapointed yet.

I think their warmup game vs South Africa can be put into better perspective now that England has suffered a heavier toll from the Boks.

But if this is how bad the 6nations teams do with a trickle of foreign talent in their domestic leagues, what's the recent flood going to do to the depth of quality players in France and England?!

It is only early in the tournament.

But, 2011 could very well be a 16 team world cup.

The current setup minus NZ, Aus, SA and Arg. At least there wouldn't be any mismatches or cricket scores, and everyone could have a realistic chance of winning the cup.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

You talk about this English team having no pace, which is true enough. Unfortunately, it's because just about every young, talented and fast player has been left at home.

Had the &*%£$! coaches gone with youth over experience, we still wouldn't have won the World Cup, but you would have seen players able to cause problems with ball in hand.

The talent is there, but at the moment it isn't being exploited by those in charge.

 

[Brodizzle]

Jeez, a few of those sniping comments in the original post is borderline trolling?

Anyway, I never believed the northern hemisphere hype about thier teams....probably because of my southern hemisphere snobbery

 

[getofmeland]

The problem is the unions, whether it be the RFU, WRU, IRU or SRU, there is no real investment into Youth Talent also I would say not so much with the WRU but the others they only have one game plan which now gets exploited...

But yes there is some major issues with the Northern Hemisphere, and after the World Cup there will be the need for some major shake ups to take place... England went to this World Cup with the Wrong Team, they are now regretting this...

The other Key is Leadership, I feel that if one of the Tri-Nation teams put in a performance like England, you would not have your captain sit in silent, you would have noise shouting, Demanding a better performance for your nation.. England lack this especially, I think Ireland Lack it and I think Wales Lack it too...

 

[ecks tartan army]

well after this weekend it looks like it may be Scotland and Wales left to fly the flag for the home nations in the knockout stages - and the only other 6 Nations team will be there by default!

hopefully a good performance at home to romania on tuesday will fill the scotland side with confidence ahead of the Italy clash (unfortunatley due to the small turnaround time between games i think its unlikely well play our 1st XV against the AB's)

England are going to struggle to get past Samoa - but after 2003 i'll take great pleasure in seeing them home before anyone else!

 

[bjok]

NH teams have been simply embarrassing. Physically weak and lacking in skill and/or talent. If 2nd and 3rd 15's were allowed there wouldn't be a NH team in the quarters.

 

[THE CHIROPRACTOR101]

i am very dissapointed in what i have seen from the north...i was expecting france and ireland to be outstanding first up..along with wales coz i was tipping them to topple the ozzies..we shall see further into the pool stages to see what form they wil take going into the finals (if they shall cross into that stage)

i agree with scuuba...by the way the minnows are going...the 2011 world cup could explode into the most exciting tournament...but so far the only teams that are shining on the rugby stage are the minnows..which isnt a bad thing..but come on now..the enthusiasts want to see world class "professional" rugby

 

[Fozastuta]

GETOFMELAND hits the nail on the head. Its down to the official bodies of the Northern teams. There 2 set in their ways, we need young men, with fresh imput to move the game forward. Wales under Ruddock were catching the Southern teams, Jenkins is a dire coach, who has set them back 5 years. England are the World Champions, and have suffered progression wise. They kept the old brigade for so long, it stiffled the young game, but have the WC to show for it. Scotland is a football nation, and the crowds of recent have shown that, despit players like Jason White. Ireland have suprised me, cant believe how bad they've been. Hopefully the glaring gap may wake a few up in the North, and realise the game is weak.

 

[BokMagic]

I think in all fairness we need to first see France`s second match before making sweeping statements like that. Sure, they were completely and totally outclassed by a very impressive Argie side, but as I know the French, they should be back with a bang- they make inconsistent consistency seem the consistent norm!

But I fully agree with Getofmeland and Fozastuta`s comments on investment in youth structures. If you look at the results at u19 and u21 RWC tournaments over the last 5 years, well the one single constant is that the Baby Blacks, Baby Boks and Babay Wallabies have completely dominated at that level- with the notable exception being France`s 2006 u/21 ***le.

Now, if you take it one place further, the side who has made the most progress at the age-group level, it is definately the Argies, who have gone from cannon-fodder at the age-group level to genuine semi contenders. No big surprise, therefore, that the top 4 or 5 teams at age-group level over the last 5 years are currently ranked 1-5 in the test rankings, and are also the leading contenders at this RWC.

In the SA-Eng game thread, I`ve read some comments from Prestwick which is suggesting that Saracens are busy working on their youth programs- and not a minute too early. The fact remains, unless you start investing properly at all levels, not just the top club and international level, you won`t have the necessary depth to go forward.

 

[ecks tartan army]

agreed - scotland is a football nation (and im sure any people in paris this week will confirm the team has a massive following!). but there is a real feel good factor about scottish sport right now - our senior football side are in a fantastic position in group B, our U-19's reached the final of last years euro championships (where by the end they had won over 10,000 poles) and weve also had recent success in tennis with the murray brothers, in golf with the likes of richie ramsay, and turned in a great performance in last years commenwealth games. the platform is there to get real backing for the rugby team.

but the SRU, as always, will **** it up! they TODAY joined forceswith the Scottish Government to advertise RWC tickets - just 48 hours before the game! this is backing they should have got MONTHS ago!!! they should also be starting big advertising drives for our pro-teams, capitalise on the increased interest during rugby world cup. but there is nothing! no advertising, no initiatives to get bums on seats (im sure an "introduce a friend for free" would be welcome! we have 20 vouchers in season tickets for 12 games - they could make the spare 8 transferable)

but the SRU are absolutley hopeless, like the SFA until recently (SFA is widley regarded as an acronoun for Sweet F All) - but they have actuall started doing something. i hope for rugbys sake they follow suit. (not promising though as our new president was in the job for a month and a half before he actually said anything - and even that was only in a match program!)

 

[Prestwick]

I think there is a consensus for Scotland to excel in all sport. The Rangers owner Sir David Murray did say that there was not enough help availible to other sports and that the focus was on Football primarily of all.

I think Scotland suffers the same problems as England does as it has a bunch of dopey administrators mismanaging the whole game in Scotland and like in England, there are decisions being made by the SRU that are effecting things beyond their own borders for the worse (excuse the pun there).

However, I did like the fact that there were more and more people (in Aberdeen anyway) who were big football fans, but who had bought the Scotland rugby jersey anyway and always turned up to the bars to watch them play (a free pint or shot if Scotland won was a big draw I think and underpins the confidence or cocky nature of the Scot in their Rugby team anyway).

In the SA-Eng game thread, I`ve read some comments from Prestwick which is suggesting that Saracens are busy working on their youth programs- and not a minute too early. The fact remains, unless you start investing properly at all levels, not just the top club and international level, you won`t have the necessary depth to go forward.[/b]

That is true, the fact is that this has only happened since 2003 because the money has only appeared for half of the GP clubs to invest in such a way thanks to increased crowds and merchandise sales since 2003. Saracens could only afford to build their Academy thanks to increased investment and income thanks to the World Cup win. This does beg the question: why did have to take England to win the World Cup for things to finally happen? It is a very sad indictment on the management of English rugby since 1996 that there has been little or no investment in grassroots rugby to develop new talent until 2000 odd.

However, the blame simply cannot be laid at the door of the RFU, nor the Clubs (who have to work within the realms of the market remember). The roots of our problems can be laid further back to the eradication of competetive sport (except football, the sport of the luvvies) in the schools of England and Scotland in the 1980s and 1990s. There have been many governments from Harold Wilson back in the 1970s to John Major and Tony Blair in the 1990s which believed that competetive sports like Rugby and Cricket (as well as athletics for the traditional sports day) were counter productive and could harm the confidence and development of the children. Thus, funding for state education of sports was cut back and in the 1990s, a record level of School playing fields were sold off. Scotland suffered twice as much as allot of this policy was tested out there before it was imposed in England.

It is very sad that Schools have to rely on the charity of the RFU or the local clubs to give their pupils any kind of experience in Rugby because the Government simply doesn't allocate enough money for the task. The problems in England and Scotland go far deeper than simply club vs country or lack of heart in the jersey because it runs all the way up to the highest echelons of government itself.

 

[ecks tartan army]

i know exactly what you mean - we only ever played rugby in school twice, and its a shame because in football you have the players who are head and shoulders above the rest - and they are the only players who get to see the ball. (hence the good get better and the bad stay bad) Rugby is the one sport (in my area anyway) where everyone is on a level playing field in terms of abillity. and add to that the fact rugby is much more of a team performance - every player has to make tackles or win the ball, thus inspiring greater teamwork between people.

but in scotland very few schools play rugby! we have a brand new astro-turf pitch (which will be ripped up at christmas), but our rugby pitch is covered in sand, bottles and dog-**** - and add to that the posts were recently removed!

do the SFA really expect the starts of the future to walk into their nearest club when they dont know their ability? Scott Murray (one of the modern day greats in scotland) was discovered by chance by a coach in a supermarket - otherwise he would be playing basketball! although it is unfair to blame it on the SRU - the government is at fault here.

also, sport in scotland could suffer even more as a result of the London Olympics - ok kis will be inspired by them but how can they pusue their dreams if the facillities arent there?

i know this is a totally diferent example, but my local sailing club has been knocked back for funding for a new club house (ours is 30 years old and falling to bits) but were knocked back because they have built a brand new centre over 2 hours away! and this is a club that has produced a former olympic champion, a round the world yachtswoman and several current brittish hopefuls! yet we have facillities that will turn most people off the sport!

apart from football, the state of sports in scotland at grass roots level is abismal and for another example - Graeham Obree (cyclist) boke the world one hour record - but he trained on public roads and the only veledorome he could use t set the record was in Norway! how many more people would Scotland (and Britain) produce if the facillities were there?

 

[Prestwick]

Exactly, it is very easy to sit there and pontificate when you live in a country where Rugby is taught in most (if not all) of the state run schools and where facilities towards rugby are well funded and maintained. Considering the state of grassroots sport in the home nations, we haven't actually done half bad in our record against the Tri Nations. Scotland have always given a good game and England have won seven out of their last eleven outings against South Africa.

 

[Fozastuta]

Exactly, it is very easy to sit there and pontificate when you live in a country where Rugby is taught in most (if not all) of the state run schools and where facilities towards rugby are well funded and maintained. Considering the state of grassroots sport in the home nations, we haven't actually done half bad in our record against the Tri Nations. Scotland have always given a good game and England have won seven out of their last eleven outings against South Africa.
[/b]

This is where some of the Southern Hemisphere supporters should also take note. Apart from Wales and their less than 3m population, Football dominates the other home nations, even in Wales i would guess there's more football clubs than rugby. Is it not David Murray who has pumped some money into Scotish Rugby recently, to the dismay of many of Rangers supporting friends So even the game is realying on Football for funds and hoping to bounce of the feel good factor. Again, it all stems from the countries official bodies, they are not businessmen, and tend to think for the good of themselves.

 

[BokMagic]

Jeepers, I didn`t realise you guys don`t have competitive schools rugby up there. So it`s a Labour thing hey? Not good for the development of young children, my arse. Rugby`s the one thing that has probably taught me more values in life than any other sport. You know, teamwork, never give up, respect for teammates and opposition, even if you don`t like them. If that is the case, I`d think that the Tories had better come back pretty soon hey!

Point made about that Prestwick. Just to give you an idea- more players are contracted to the provincial unions in SA during the annual Craven Week, an u/18 provincial tournament, than from any other source. And those u/18 provincial players all come up through the schools system. If you guys don`t have that up north, well it`s a massive disadvantage to overcome.

 

[shtove]

It's disappointing, but there's no big problem. France should have beaten Arg, and they've just ****** all over Namib. The second best NH team is Ireland, and they're just not performing. It happens. The rest have been mediocre for years, with the odd flash of inspiration, so they're playing as you'd expect.

Apart from Ireland's near collapse, the one really disappointing result for me was Italy v ABs - I expected Italy to show a lot more steel, but it looked like they were overawed before the kick off.

The good thing about the tournament is that it shows the standard of organisation in rugby is on the rise all over the place.

But the one thing really ticking me off is the amount of up and unders - a limited team like Arg, or Samoa today, use them with monotony, and it's just so duuuuuuuull.

 

[AllezWasps]

Jeez, a few of those sniping comments in the original post is borderline trolling?

Anyway, I never believed the northern hemisphere hype about thier teams....probably because of my southern hemisphere snobbery
[/b]

Not even on the 22nd of November 4 years ago?

I honestly don't know what is up with the NH at the moment. Rust from not playing rugby for the summer possibly, coincidence that 4 teams have looked poor and they just happen to be England, France, Ireland and Wales, or simply, poor form.

I still believe that France and England will go through, they are teams that always offer enough. Ireland are unlucky to be

1) Shite at the moment
2) In the group of death

and Wales will have a toughy against Fiji.

In the 2003 World Cup, the SH struggled, SA went out very early, Aussies stumbled up to the New Zealand game, and the All Blacks never got out of 2nd gear.

Who knows at the end of the day, but the next 6 Nations could be a bit of a laugh.