Welsh sides for B&I 2015/16

[Jerry Blue]

Would the Cornish Pirates consider ever joining the Pro12? If it ever expanded and reorganized itself.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why would they?
They're an English club.

 

[Jerry Blue]

They are also celtic. The pro12 is celtic league plus Italians.

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Plus won't the Aviva be locked out soon? No way to Europe for them.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

All of England was Celtic - there were more Celts in England than Wales/Scotland.

They've a long history in the Championship - I'm sure if you asked them they'd rather be promoted to the Aviva than be in the Pro12.

 

[goodNumber10]

Would the Cornish Pirates consider ever joining the Pro12? If it ever expanded and reorganized itself.

Doubt it.

I'd imagine they want to win a real competition.

 

[Peat]

It makes zero sense for a club to play in a league other than with their affiliated union at that level due to the financial support and international ambitions of players. Either the RFU would have to be very supportive of an English team in a non-English league (doubtful), or Cornish Pirates would have to put up with all their best home grown players swanning off to play for England (kills the idea stone dead), or they give up on home grown players and just become a dumping ground for whoever they can find (equally bad).

 

[valley commando]

Why would they?
They're an English club.

Cornish 1st, Celtic 2nd, English 3rd.

 

[ncurd]

Whilst a lot of Cornish consider themselves a separate country from England I've not met one who feels more affiliation towards Wales/Scotland/Ireland than England and very much have a South-West/Westcountry mentality in terms of tribal affiliation. I suspect they'd much rather be having derby's with Exeter/Bath/Gloucester than anywhere else. I can't imagine why a team heavily invested in the English system will move away from it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cornish 1st, Celtic 2nd, English 3rd.

BS

 

[valley commando]

BS

CF

 

[SelimNiai]

Whilst a lot of Cornish consider themselves a separate country from England I've not met one who feels more affiliation towards Wales/Scotland/Ireland than England and very much have a South-West/Westcountry mentality in terms of tribal affiliation. I suspect they'd much rather be having derby's with Exeter/Bath/Gloucester than anywhere else. I can't imagine why a team heavily invested in the English system will move away from it.

A Cornish Pirates v Exeter derby would be a lot of fun. Cornwall has a long rugby history with some great sides, Penzance and Newlyn, Redruth, Mounts Bay (when they existed). Cornwall are usually up there in county rugby aswell. Its pretty much their "national sport". Despite being part of the old "Kingdom Of Wales" (thank you Crusader Kings 2) I think theyre far more English than they are Welsh

 

[RedruthRFC]

I'm surprised by the number of people who feel able to speak for others' cultural identity and how they feel. Thanks, but I'd rather speak for myself.

Here in Redruth, you often hear the phrase "Cornish by birth, British by accident, English never". Personally I don't feel that strongly anti-English, but do make a point of recording my nationality as Cornish whenever I'm asked to provide it. I consider myself both, but my Cornish identity means more to me. Cornish rugby supporters aren't representative of the Cornish in general, rugby supporters tend to be more died in the wool Cornish so are more likely to be anti-English. I have sat in my local watching England play Wales in the Six Nations with Cornishmen cheering on Wales for this reason (and because of their affinity with fellow Celts).

Back to the question at hand, I believe that this avenue was explored a number of years ago, but don't know why it didn't happen, possibly because at the time Pirates had ambitions towards playing in the Premiership. The fact that it was know as the Celtic League at the time certainly gave the idea credibility. If you accept that Pirates' top tier ambitions are dead (many supporters wouldn't, maybe I'm a pessimist, maybe I'm a realist), if the finances worked, I'd have thought that they would jump at the chance. Peat makes a good point though - it would make it impossible to repatriate the likes of Jack Nowell and LCD, although there's a good few very good Cornish players who could be tempted back like Sam Betty and Darren Davidiuk.

 

[Jerry Blue]

I doubt it would happen but it's just as likely as London Welsh and Scottish joining the league but the Pirates would be welcome from a fans point of view. Personally I would love to see a British and Irish league but I don't think that will ever happen. Think Welsh rugby needs to give up on the dream of playing the English in a league and concentrate on making the Pro12 a better product and the B&I cup a better competition for our young players to develop in.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Do people serious classify themselves as 'celts?' Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

 

[Peat]

I doubt it would happen but it's just as likely as London Welsh and Scottish joining the league but the Pirates would be welcome from a fans point of view. Personally I would love to see a British and Irish league but I don't think that will ever happen. Think Welsh rugby needs to give up on the dream of playing the English in a league and concentrate on making the Pro12 a better product and the B&I cup a better competition for our young players to develop in.

I don't think it is.

London Welsh can join the Pro 12, affiliate themselves with the WRU (I think they have joint affiliation?), market themselves predominantly to people of Welsh heritage/locals who don't care as long as its rugby, fill up with Welsh players, and generally act like a Welsh side who just happen to be in England like it was long ago. Not saying there aren't potential problems with that, but it's a feasible plan if it all works.

Cornish Pirates will always suffer from the fact that, no matter how strongly they feel their cultural identities, World Rugby hasn't heard of Cornwall and it hasn't heard of Celtic. It's heard of English and that's it. In a world where the club game is still strongly attached to the International game, as previously pointed out, it leaves them with some highly unpalatable options.

There's a far stronger argument for one of the exiles sides, although that's probably a bit down the way.

 

[ncurd]

I'm surprised by the number of people who feel able to speak for others' cultural identity and how they feel. Thanks, but I'd rather speak for myself.

As well you should I was just speaking from my general perception rather someone who lives and breathes it.

It's abit like myself coming from Somerset the idea of Gloucester being the "westcountry" is almost laughable to most who consider it really to be Cornwall (who have their own hangups on what's what), Devon, Dorset & Somerset (in other words the bit that feels looks like it should be the south west). However that still makes them Bath's local rivals by proximity. Anyone who suggests to me I live in the Westcountry now is a joke I drive a few mins and I'm in Worcestershire and the motorway sign south of my walk into work in the morning just says SOUTH WEST.

 

[Jerry Blue]

I think London Welsh are affiliated with the WRU but I think they would need RFU and probably World Rugby's permission to play in the Pro 12. Big hurdles to it but if they got permission it would give someone like the Cornish Pirates a sort of precedent to join the pro 12.

 

[ncurd]

I think London Welsh are affiliated with the WRU but I think they would need RFU and probably World Rugby's permission to play in the Pro 12. Big hurdles to it but if they got permission it would give someone like the Cornish Pirates a sort of precedent to join the pro 12.

It's not going to happen though is it?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And why should it? They're English clubs

 

[RedruthRFC]

Lol, you just don't get it!

ncurd, my comment wasn't aimed at you, but thought you would be interested to hear that not every Cornishman supports England.