WCC

[melon]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> whatever! the WCC championship is won by the better team - home field advantage isn't everything - Sydney Roosters won the 2003 WCC at the Reebok 38-0, going further back in 94' Wigan beat Brisbane in Brisbane 20-14, in the past other teams - Melbourne, Brisbane have won on British soil - Saints would definitely have had a sniff in Australia - if there's never a chance to win down-under why should it ever be held there...this St. Helens team is one of the best teams in the history of the game. [/b]

What I'm about to say is fact, and is in no way me being a biased prick towards you at all.

The current St Helens team is not one of the best teams in the history of the game.

None of the premiership winning teams in Super League match up to any of the following teams

• The might Souths in the 1920s and 30s
• Easts in the 30s
• St George in the 60s
• Canterbury and Parramatta of the late 70s and 80s
• Brisbane, Canterbury, Roosters and Newcastle have all several better teams each in the last decade.

I could keep goin on about how there have been a plethora of teams that are classified as being a better team, but there is no point because its just common knowledge and common sense, there have been many better teams.

St Helens most probably have the 72nd best club team in Rugby League history.
[/b][/quote]



I need to take issue with this - this St Helens teams is one of the FINEST teams that the world has seen. I have been going to watch Saints for 15 years. Week in, week out, home and away. I have been there for the **** times when Wigan used to rip up everything in sight. I have been there when we nearly went bust. I have been there for the humilation of getting beaten 70-0 at Leeds. I have seen it all.



But I have never seen anything like this set of players we have now. Swap Gidley for Lyon and it is an outstanding team. You can use the "pre-season" excuse all you want. If Brisbane are as good as made out to be they would rise to the challenge and swat us away. But they couldn't, because we were and are better than them.



I would pit this team against any team in history and expect them to win. I don't expect any credit from Down Under as we never get any. I'm happy to be a World Champion.



We're the best team on the planet - fact.

[/b][/quote]



I'm not takin any credit away from the fact that you're the best club team in the world.

I'm not degrading the Super League or St Helens.



I'm merely saying what I'm saying: They aren't one of the best club teams ever.



But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[ak47]

there is alot of grey areas in the WCC

the timing

the venue

the squads

until these are addressed, most gloating in club form when they play in different comps is biased

And alot of people in here seem to have forgotton - or just not adressed through arrogance the WCC challenge tounry back in the late 90's where every UK club team was smashed by an avgerage cricket score.

Until we see a fixture where both teams are in full fitness flight - a best 3 match series - alternative home/away fixtues alternating annually - there wont be an answer

The reality is -
ITS THE DREAM TO PLAY IN THE NRL
THE NRL PAYS LESS

I wonder why?

But what I will say is that ST Helens totally outplayed brisbane in most facets of the game
Brisbane had nothing - PERRY IS CRAP

And the last 5 years has seen the gap close dramatically - with the tri series being soo close, and some good pommy's coming down for the NRL stage and succeed - Morley and Carney to name a few

Its closer than Rugby Union at the moment - I welcome this with opens arms and say - THATS 3, HELD, GET OFF HIM....GET BACK, GET BACK, #5 GET BACK WITH ME.......PLAY THE BALL WITH YA FEET !!!!!!!!

 

[Wally]

Hold the phone. HOLD IT. Good. Now, I hope you don't think St Helens are the best in the world just because they beat Brisbane under the conditions that they did? You actually think if both leagues combined the Saints would still come out on top?

 

[melon]

Hold the phone. HOLD IT. Good. Now, I hope you don't think St Helens are the best in the world just because they beat Brisbane under the conditions that they did? You actually think if both leagues combined the Saints would still come out on top? [/b]

Some people do think that. Poor fellas, feel sorry for em.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Hold the phone. HOLD IT. Good. Now, I hope you don't think St Helens are the best in the world just because they beat Brisbane under the conditions that they did? You actually think if both leagues combined the Saints would still come out on top? [/b]

I would say we would beat anyone. Anyone other than Melbourne who I would need to see more of. They got screwed over in the Grand Final last season and the fact they lead the pack meant they were the best team. I'm confident we would beat them as well. We are the best team in the world - it's as simple as that.

 

[woosaah]

i dont like the format of the WCC. why dont they play it at the end of the season? instead of the start of the next season, kinda kills the point i think. Saints had a good 2 or 3 serious competition games before the WCC game, Broncos played a second division team the week before?

IMO i would like to see it played maybe 2 weeks after the last grand final (be it NRL or ESL dont know which one finishes first) maybe a week or 2 before the internationals start to be played. that woudl be alot better timing and a better gauge to see who is the better team for that year. Otherwise someone is always going to be a bit underdone.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

I smell what you're cooking Woosaah, but I don't know about you, but I can already here the NRL boys moaning about extra games.

 

[woosaah]

i just feel they were underdone, but still played pretty well. Sure they play alot of games, but they are proffesionals. If they want to play the WCC then they should play it when its best for the team. at the start of the season without any competitive games is not a good time to play. You need a few games to get some form up.

Also hadnt webke retired and just came back for this match? wouldnt his fitness be in question. i saw him on tv and he was looking forward to organising the alcahol.

 

[ak47]

yes the fact that the roster/squads arent the same nullifies everything

sure you could have injuries

but when players retire or go to different clubs, it kind of hollows out the ***le of best team in the world

the season begins in 2007..........if the broncos have a shocking year, we see the aftermath of player transfers and retirements (costigan and webcke) - we see why they were beaten - we may also see a stronger outfit from the team that won the previous year indicating an unfair battle which is meant to be played by teams with the same playing roster

The fact that nothing is ever done about shows that the issue is not much of a concern downplaying the validity of world champs

IMO it should be played not long after the same season, as the roster remains the same
IMO it should be a pinnalce match of high regard

But because of the above grey areas - it wont be

The GF in each respective comp is regarded better
The SOO is the pinnacle of the sport
The WCC is plagued by issues, and nobody will ever come to an agreeance.
Its a pity because IMO if they treated it with more credibility, Rugby League could have a better more valid pinnacle match, which would bring sponsorship money and give the fans something back with value

As it stands now - We down here dont care for it much, which is a pity because Rugby League is bigger down here when scaledback to the UK, our crowds/stadiums match urs yet our population is smaller than London - let alone the UK.

 

[Wally]

<div class='quotemain'> Hold the phone. HOLD IT. Good. Now, I hope you don't think St Helens are the best in the world just because they beat Brisbane under the conditions that they did? You actually think if both leagues combined the Saints would still come out on top? [/b]

I would say we would beat anyone. Anyone other than Melbourne who I would need to see more of. They got screwed over in the Grand Final last season and the fact they lead the pack meant they were the best team. I'm confident we would beat them as well. We are the best team in the world - it's as simple as that.
[/b][/quote]
Why was it when Jamie Lyon played in the Super League, and more to the point for St Helens, you said he was one of the best players to ever play the game? He should have been at his prime for Australia but he was nothing special. In the trial against Melbourne last week he was totally outplayed - it was a massacre - by 17-year-old Israel Falou. What does that tell you? The Broncos are better and St Helens is a hole.

yes the fact that the roster/squads arent the same nullifies everything

sure you could have injuries

but when players retire or go to different clubs, it kind of hollows out the ***le of best team in the world

the season begins in 2007..........if the broncos have a shocking year, we see the aftermath of player transfers and retirements (costigan and webcke) - we see why they were beaten - we may also see a stronger outfit from the team that won the previous year indicating an unfair battle which is meant to be played by teams with the same playing roster

The fact that nothing is ever done about shows that the issue is not much of a concern downplaying the validity of world champs

IMO it should be played not long after the same season, as the roster remains the same
IMO it should be a pinnalce match of high regard

But because of the above grey areas - it wont be

The GF in each respective comp is regarded better
The SOO is the pinnacle of the sport
The WCC is plagued by issues, and nobody will ever come to an agreeance.
Its a pity because IMO if they treated it with more credibility, Rugby League could have a better more valid pinnacle match, which would bring sponsorship money and give the fans something back with value

As it stands now - We down here dont care for it much, which is a pity because Rugby League is bigger down here when scaledback to the UK, our crowds/stadiums match urs yet our population is smaller than London - let alone the UK.
[/b]

Good argument, only you came away a bit at the end there when you said Australia's population is less than 8 million.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Why was it when Jamie Lyon played in the Super League, and more to the point for St Helens, you said he was one of the best players to ever play the game? He should have been at his prime for Australia but he was nothing special. In the trial against Melbourne last week he was totally outplayed - it was a massacre - by 17-year-old Israel Falou. What does that tell you? The Broncos are better and St Helens is a hole.[/b]

St Helens is a hole? What next? The wheel? Fire? Well done, Captain Obvious!

Prove to me the Broncos are better. You can't. We won and you lost. Just admit we were better and we deserved to win. WE ARE THE BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD - WE BEAT THE AUSTRALIAN CHAMPIONS. You can say all you want but you cannot take it away from us.



As for Lyon in the reserve grade game... that's exactly what it was. Reserve grade. Come and talk to me if he continually misfires in an NRL game.

 

[Wally]

<div class='quotemain'>Why was it when Jamie Lyon played in the Super League, and more to the point for St Helens, you said he was one of the best players to ever play the game? He should have been at his prime for Australia but he was nothing special. In the trial against Melbourne last week he was totally outplayed - it was a massacre - by 17-year-old Israel Falou. What does that tell you? The Broncos are better and St Helens is a hole.[/b]

As for Lyon in the reserve grade game... that's exactly what it was. Reserve grade. Come and talk to me if he continually misfires in an NRL game.
[/b][/quote]

Trial - both sides were close to full strength.

 

[esoj]

wcc is a bit of a farce in the currnet format. one team has played 3 competitve games while the other is still in pre-season training. broncos did really well considering they haven't played a single nrl game yet. fair play to st helens they won and good on them but I am sure the situation would be different if the shoe was on the other foot and they were playing the broncos in australia.

it should switch countries every year to make it fair and also boost the profile of the match and league as a whole. currently state of origin is the top in league followed by the nrl grand final then maybe the tri-series or the super league grandfinal and then the wcc. the wcc should be the highlight of the season as it is the big battle to see which team is the best in the world. at the moment it is treated like crap and when one team is playing while they are still in pre-season traning no wonder nobody wants to watch it or even cares about the game.

 

[melon]

....it should switch countries every year to make it fair and also boost the profile of the match and league as a whole....[/b]

Unfortunately the heads of the NRL and ESL have confirmed that the WCC will continue to be played in England.