Warm Up Match 2: Blues v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

[The blunderbus]

.

 

[The blunderbus]

A seriously bad attitude I certainly do not have. A realistic view I do. I am involved in alot of sports that deal with player burnout. International rugby is heading down this road too with meaningless events like this that put unnecessary demands on players who already have hectic schedules. The baabaas are probably better placed than the lions as they have an ethos. What is the lions ethos??
Finally you name would suggest you have some Welsh lineage so of course you will think Warburton has some merit as captain but unfortunately you are blinkered by that. Farrell, omahony or hogg have had better seasons leading their countries were better placed to be captain IMO.

 

[Larksea]

Despite the doom and gloom we're all feeling, as Groundhog said I think we did most of what we needed to win that game. It wasn't a bad performance, we just made a few costly mistakes.

The 7 point swing from the SBW try we obviously shouldn't have let happen. But it was just one of those unfortunate things that happens every now and again (credit to SBW)

And Kicking. We had that game with 7 minutes to go. Sextons kick was poor, chasing also poor, and we lost it from there. Webb's kicking throughout the game was mostly bad too.

It was completely avoidable.

I dont think putting things into context like that helps the lions either. The "7 point swing" came from what should have been an easy penalty for the blues so it was only 4 points really. The rookie blues 10 was 1 from 3 kicks at goal that weren't hard and made a number of mistakes vs big name 10's like Bigger and Sexton? The lions have no excuses and its only going to get harder.

 

[mania]

considering gatlands on a hiding to nothing i'm enjoying the way he's prepping the lions. unlike 2005 he hasnt split the team into a midWeek vs testSide and keeping everyones options open.
if the lions survive the next couple of games intact then they are going to have learnt a lot about nz rugby . hopefully they can use the experience to better themselves in time for the tests

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

It's interesting reading peoples opinions from different countries. If I didn't frequent these forums, I'd have no idea people actually thought the Blues were that bad.

I never said they were bad, and i don't think Stormer2010 said that either. I said they are a mid tier team. I said they were a mid tier team. My rationale is the following: Out of 18 teams, lets make a hasty generalization and group them in 3 groups: top 6, middle 6 and bottom 6. They are not in the top 6 imo, so i stand correct, they are a mid tier team in SR.

 

[Brigantine]

Not quite an entire continent

Just another archipelago barely bigger than New Zealand.

Taking on an entire continent - that's what the Bledisloe Cup is for!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

what a win by the Blues and what a try by West

 

[ianw16]

what a win by the Blues and what a try by West

Yep. But the Blues are crap, and would lose to Saracens by 30 points. I kid you not; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...k-lions-test-side-now-play-against-crusaders/

Sorry, but who is this numpty? Chances are the Blues would beat any NH club side by 30. Lose by 30? Sorry, but that bloke knows eff all about rugby. Is he a soccer player?

 

[Nubiwan]

To be fair to Gats (I'm defending him again, I hate Lions' tours!) I think, with the exception of Ringrose in place of Payne and Dunbar for Te'o he did pick his most talented squad. His mistake thus far has come in not picking enough players who can execute his game plan, Te'o and Payne are actually both good fits, Payne was probably the only great player kick chasing selected today whereas they need about three on the pitch to contest NZ. Seymour will do a job, Payne too if he gets fit, Williams and Halfpenny blow hot and cold and Watson can be ok from time to time but after that there's nothing. Either a change to the game plan is needed, and I don't think there's a coach good enough to implement anything more intelligent on the this tour, or a care package of Kearney and/or Zebo is needed to see some improvement to the kick chase. I don't think there's many coaches who could be in anyway successful on this tour but a couple who could chose trips to Japan and Argentina instead!

I find myself with a rye smile as you mention the kick chase dichotomy. Usain Bolt could not have pressured those kicks from Webb in this match. They were essentially the lions transferring possession to the blues. Nothing else. I honestly grow wearie of lions scrum halves assuming the posture behind a ruck which says to everyone, in the stadium, let alone on the pitch, oh - here comes a box kick. Again, I have not seen Webb a whole lot, but I thought his kicking attrocious and aimless. Youngs and or care are no worse, if indeed better than both 9s I have witnessed.

 

[Nubiwan]

This is not a regular feature, this is once every twelve years with a scratch team and a scratch management team.
Results can be arbitrary before the tests start.
Wins help to build camaraderie and belief but in the Lions context, especially in NZ, you take what you can get, if it's only positive performances then you work with it and let the professionalism allow the results to be a lesser issue.
There were some good Lions players performances out there tonight, particularly in the pack.
The Lions are a work in progress, they have boatloads of talent on board, they must adhere to whatever the coach wants and try their best to deliver... and they may not hit their straps until as late as the 2nd test.
I believe the Lions will be a much better attacking unit if Farrell is in the 10 shirt AND getting quick ball from the halfback.
His game management skillset looks way ahead of Sexton at this time.
It's still early days but Farrell is comfortably in line for the 10 shirt with Sexton as cover.

Jonesy, I feel like we breath the same air. Your candid tributes to the lions are heartwarming and better than anything I have to say about them.

 

[Nubiwan]

It's interesting reading peoples opinions from different countries. If I didn't frequent these forums, I'd have no idea people actually thought the Blues were that bad. I'm surprised people think the Stormers are genuinely better than them after that farcical match and receiving huge thrashings in New Zealand.

I'm really not a huge fan of them at all, often very critical, but they're still a very good side on their day, which they have shown in all the NZ derbies this season. I think they have proven themselves far more than the Stormers and Sharks who I don't think would beat this Lions team.

Just to clarify, I have watched a few of the blues games this season and, while they might not be the pick of NZ, they are likely better than the best in Oz, and I would back the at home against any SA unit. That was the point I was making. Lions still should have done better IMHO.

 

[Nubiwan]

Well maybe not the best chance of winning the series, but it will make for a very competitive and entertaining tour as a whole, which I am happy about.

It's mouth watering to be honest. I expect the provincial matches to be like super rugby playoff games. Big crowds and big intensity from both sides. Hopefully the tests can be competitive.

 

[Nubiwan]

Well if we're gonna lose then better it to a score like that - great try!

Blues played well I thought, classic NZ side - occasionally ropey at the set piece but defend with their lives and incredibly dangerous with ball in hand.

As for the Lions, clearly not ideal to lose the match but we're still putting it together and there are a few who haven't been seen yet who should make a difference (certainly in terms of the stodgy attack).

The following is all IMHO based on seeing the game live - just done for the sake of debate really.

Putting their best foot forward:

• Front five (7 them including the prop subs - set piece dominance and worked hard in open play. Personally don't blame Marler for the penalty at the end, another ref on another day could well have let it go),
• Tipuric (would like to see him turning ball over but worked hard in conditions that didn't suit him),
• Webb (Lively and tackled well. Yes his kicking was aimless at times but clearly a tactic and he made good distance with a few defensive kicks - though quite why we are giving NZ sides broken field ball instead of getting it off the pitch is beyond me),
• Henshaw (ran hard and straight),
• Halfpenny (lacks Hogg's attacking skills but really got involved and his kicking was flawless),
• O'Mahony (thought he was prominent when he came on).

Maintaining station:

• Stander (Did OK but seems a marked man and if he's not going to make ground with the ball in hand then I'm not sure why you'd select him over someone like Moriarty),
• Biggar (you know what you're getting and that's what we got),
• Payne and Daly (nothing great, nothing terrible),
• Sexton (almost in the bottom section but given he's in poor form, nothing has really changed. Passing was ok, kicking was poor),
• Laidlaw (hardly any game time, he is what he is),
• Henderson (did he get on the pitch?).

In reverse:

• Haskell (just can't seem to recover his form - shouldn't be on tour imho),
• Nowell (I know people love his work rate and I get that but he is just not quick enough - a problem that was cruelly exposed today. He also seemed to be constantly caught defending the inside man - it happened so often I can't help wonder if it's a tactical thing, although it didn't seem to happen on the other wing),
• Rory Best (WTF? I know these things happen but when the pressure was on...),
• Williams (bit harsh maybe but he's got to be judging those high balls better and didn't offer much else).

The Rory best thing you just reminded me of. What a clusterfuck that last line out was. Considering we'd eaten them in the line outs and scored a push over. Thanks Rory - WTF?

 

[Nubiwan]

considering gatlands on a hiding to nothing i'm enjoying the way he's prepping the lions. unlike 2005 he hasnt split the team into a midWeek vs testSide and keeping everyones options open.
if the lions survive the next couple of games intact then they are going to have learnt a lot about nz rugby . hopefully they can use the experience to better themselves in time for the tests

Maybe because every match IS a real test, in both senses....

 

[ianw16]

Maybe because every match IS a real test, in both senses....

If I recall correctly, the 2005 Lions played provincial opposition. I remember watching the Auckland game. This would have been a tough game, back in the day. Ask the 1983 Lions! However, things had moved on by then. Super Rugby had taken over. Provincial rugby had seen its day (sadly). How I long for the battles between Hart's Auckland and Grizz's Canterbury! Epic stuff. When the Ranfurly Shield actually meant something. Call me old fashioned, but those were the days. Nicking off school to see Auckland play North Auckland at 3.30 on a Wednesday arvo. 46 500 dead or dying grannies (well, that's what you told your employer!). Sid Going knocking over penalty goals from laughably long distances. Huge Maori guys from up north letting a wee Auckland schoolboy get close to the fence behind the goal at the scoreboard end. Said Auckland schoolboy seeing his frigging headmaster just a few meters away! However, I think I may have gone off topic. Carry on.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I dont think putting things into context like that helps the lions either. The "7 point swing" came from what should have been an easy penalty for the blues so it was only 4 points really. The rookie blues 10 was 1 from 3 kicks at goal that weren't hard and made a number of mistakes vs big name 10's like Bigger and Sexton? The lions have no excuses and its only going to get harder.

You're missing where I've been coming from in terms of this thread. The lions are not in a great place and I'm worried about the rest of the tour. I expect a couple more losses to super rugby opposition, and yes we should have done better so far.

My overall thrust is just that we know where we can mend things, the most important thing being don't kick so loosely to talented runners. Because substantively the only thing that matters is winning the next game, rather than succumbing to people who just want to bask in the lions' failure. You say it's not helpful for the lions to put this in a brighter context but how is it helpful to be like "guys you know we we really are terrible, we lost to the weakest super rugby team from NZ AND THEY HAD A ROOKIE TEN!"

 

[valley commando]

On this, if it was a whole continent which French, Italian, Georgian or other European players would get into the XV if any? Would Parisse? I think Guirado would but after that and maybe a French winger I'm really not sure.

I have sat down and thought about which players would get in a European team from France and virtually changed the players each time apart from Guirado who was ever present, this then got me thinking about how a Northern Hemisphere v Southern Hemisphere series would appeal to the masses, might prove an interesting topic for debate and maybe more of a money spinner for the various unions. Not being a fan of the November tests maybe a North v South series would be an interesting concept.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I can't see any other southern hemisphere players I'd want to put into the AB's.
Not one.
They would only dilute the sacred purity of what we create in the shaky isles.

 

[Zootalaws]

Just another archipelago barely bigger than New Zealand.

I see education standards are slipping... NZ is 1/3 larger than the British Isles + Ireland.

 

[valley commando]

I find myself with a rye smile as you mention the kick chase dichotomy. Usain Bolt could not have pressured those kicks from Webb in this match. They were essentially the lions transferring possession to the blues. Nothing else. I honestly grow wearie of lions scrum halves assuming the posture behind a ruck which says to everyone, in the stadium, let alone on the pitch, oh - here comes a box kick. Again, I have not seen Webb a whole lot, but I thought his kicking attrocious and aimless. Youngs and or care are no worse, if indeed better than both 9s I have witnessed.

Neither Youngs or Care are anywhere near as good as Webb