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Wales vs All Blacks (31/10/21) 5.15am NZDT

Geordiefalcon said:
I'm not a Wales fan...but in fairness...the Kiwis are jUst out of a full championship of hardened test matches and Wales have had 2 weeks and new players. So was this result unexpected?

SA will be tough next week again
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Not to mention, the players who have been playing rugby in that Wales team have barely played a full 80 min game for the clubs that they play for, and certainly haven't been winning when they have.

Decent shift from Basham, feel like he really arrived today and good to see Wainwright play well. Tomos was decent and thought that Preiestland looked the better of the two tens, which might be important next week.

There was no excuse for the poor line out, and it really cost Wales at times. Scrumtime, I question what was happening with Wyn Jones as I think he was being treated a little harshly at scrum time by the man in the middle, but you can't win game without a set piece.

Other than that, NZ played a very measured game today and upped the ante when Wales started to tire. They always have the ability to score great try's when in open space and they didn't disappoint. Also, to bring that caliber of player from the bench in the last quarter as well was always going to make it hard for Wales.
 
In the first 60 minutes most of the ABs cleaning out was poor - when our AB bench came on in the last 20 minutes though the cleaning out was heaps better, giving our backs good front foot ball to pile on the points against a weakened Welsh team.

BB kicks for touch from penalties were very good - again though his general kicking in play was pretty bloody thoughtless... keeps astonishing me how all teams continue to be so thick when it comes to giving away intercept passes, gifting the opposition easy tries, all they have to do is use that thing between their ears called a brain & have a quick scan first, if that was the case they wouldn't have passed the ball.
 
Gavin said:
Looks like someone jumped on the end of the New Zealand team during the anthem
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That was hilarious... he probably wanted a bit of game time before he played for the ' All Pubs ' :D
 
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I expected a beating but not that much of a beating......

A few things to worry about, Wales seemed to get physically beaten up at front when it was a reasonably strong front 5 as well. Moriarty injury didn't help when they had to bring on a 2nd row to cover, although you could say that it was a poor squad selection in the first place I suppose. Lineout was awful, before the the game I said Adam Beard is big enough that not even Eilas could miss him with his throws....... it turned out I was wrong. You can't always blame a poor functioning lineout on the throwing but it's consistently poor with Elias on the field. Good to see Basham and Wainwright impress though, they are dynamic in attack but need the front 5 to at least give them some front foot ball to help them.
Defence was really poor, they genuinely looked absolutely out on their feet the last 20 and while there's criticism of the way Gatland managed his team, Wales always looked fit under him.
10-12-13 just didn't really work, IMO at lot of Wales' inability to convert chances was the lack of effectiveness of 10-12. Anscombe didn't have a great game at all, but he's 3 games into being over 2 years out. Starting against NZ was probably a bit too much to ask. Johnny Williams had a few nice runs but made a few mistakes although 10 + 13 probably didn't help to get the best out of him. As for JD2, he's been great for Wales but I don't think he should be playing 13 for Wales anymore, physically seems to have lost a bit and his distribution has never really been a real strength of his. But again looking at the squad I'm not sure who else could have played there. Johnny McNicholl did surprise me a bit, he did better under the high ball at 15 than he thought I would to be fair, not a faultless performance but I would probably keep him there than throw in Liam Williams who hasn't played for 4/5 months.
 
MikeTheNative said:
I expected a beating but not that much of a beating......

A few things to worry about, Wales seemed to get physically beaten up at front when it was a reasonably strong front 5 as well. Moriarty injury didn't help when they had to bring on a 2nd row to cover, although you could say that it was a poor squad selection in the first place I suppose. Lineout was awful, before the the game I said Adam Beard is big enough that not even Eilas could miss him with his throws....... it turned out I was wrong. You can't always blame a poor functioning lineout on the throwing but it's consistently poor with Elias on the field. Good to see Basham and Wainwright impress though, they are dynamic in attack but need the front 5 to at least give them some front foot ball to help them.
Defence was really poor, they genuinely looked absolutely out on their feet the last 20 and while there's criticism of the way Gatland managed his team, Wales always looked fit under him.
10-12-13 just didn't really work, IMO at lot of Wales' inability to convert chances was the lack of effectiveness of 10-12. Anscombe didn't have a great game at all, but he's 3 games into being over 2 years out. Starting against NZ was probably a bit too much to ask. Johnny Williams had a few nice runs but made a few mistakes although 10 + 13 probably didn't help to get the best out of him. As for JD2, he's been great for Wales but I don't think he should be playing 13 for Wales anymore, physically seems to have lost a bit and his distribution has never really been a real strength of his. But again looking at the squad I'm not sure who else could have played there. Johnny McNicholl did surprise me a bit, he did better under the high ball at 15 than he thought I would to be fair, not a faultless performance but I would probably keep him there than throw in Liam Williams who hasn't played for 4/5 months.
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Other possible centres include Owen Watkin (not in the squad for some reason), Scott Williams, Willis Halaholo and (again never makes the international squad, no matter how good) Steff Hughes.
 
Problem is they're all 12's, and in Steff Hughes case barely regional quality. North is our only proper 13, i.e. someone with enough pace to really trouble defenders on the outside.

Lane is the only other player I see in regional rugby with enough pace and bulk, but Cardiff have too many centres and not enough quality wingers to move him back into the centre full-time. Max Llewellyn could be one for the future as well, Hawkins at the O's shows some promise too.
 
dullonien said:
Problem is they're all 12's, and in Steff Hughes case barely regional quality. North is our only proper 13, i.e. someone with enough pace to really trouble defenders on the outside.

Lane is the only other player I see in regional rugby with enough pace and bulk, but Cardiff have too many centres and not enough quality wingers to move him back into the centre full-time. Max Llewellyn could be one for the future as well, Hawkins at the O's shows some promise too.
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I agree with this.
Wales haven't seemed to produce any new centres the past 5 years that can challenge for the starting shirt.
The solution so far is to bring in New Zealander's and players who come thorough the English game. I would like to see Kieran Williams be given a go but as you said he's a 12. Owen Watkin is one who has 26 caps now but never really shone at test level, seems one that is good enough.
 
Yeah Kieran Williams is indeed promising. What about Aled Summerhill, who has never been called up for Wales but might just make the cut?
 
Summerhill falls short imo. Decent squad player for Cardiff, but not quite good enough to be a starter in the big games and a fair way short of international standard.

Maybe Johnny Williams could work at 13 if he worked on his speed and dropped a few kg's? Pair him with a 2nd playmaker at 12.
 
dullonien said:
Summerhill falls short imo. Decent squad player for Cardiff, but not quite good enough to be a starter in the big games and a fair way short of international standard.

Maybe Johnny Williams could work at 13 if he worked on his speed and dropped a few kg's? Pair him with a 2nd playmaker at 12.
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Do you think Kieran Williams is the next big thing?
 
Dan Kelly is Irish said:
What does world rugby expect to gain from having New Zealand thrash these tier 2 nations?
Like will this increase rugby popularity in Wales? Not at all.
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Agh, I Was intending to say exactly this, you beat me to it.

I wasnt super happy with the game because I thought there wasn't a lot we improved on in terms of what we need to beat the springboks. Taking the points to build scoreboard pressure was the exception. wales losing all of their set pieces guaranteed us the win, then scoreboard pressure gave us the opportunity to run away with it.

We still have a bit of a midfield conundrum, in terms of combination. Definitely we picked the best two individual midfielders we have, and I think that's why it's so hard for the selectors because neither player deserves to be dropped, but we need one of them to pose more of a threat in terms of go forward ball. Alb just seems to go downhill over time in terms of his attack. Tupaea or jordie are our options for go forward ball id say.
 
Tooting Carmen said:
Do you think Kieran Williams is the next big thing?
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I like Kieran Williams, he could come into contention at 12 for Wales. There are question marks around his distribution, but that never held JD2 back I suppose. Whether he'll be as effective at international level is to be seen, but he's faced International players at regional level and still looked good.

He needs to lower his error count slightly as well.

I like the look of Aneurin Owen too. For his age he's really been impressive for the Dragons. Very low error count, good defensively, and a rounded skillset.
 

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