Wales autumn tests

[cyRil]

Is it worth staging an international for a crowd of 6000 people anymore?

 

[Melhor Time]

if Georgia begins to start looking like they will get in the 6 Nations then I agree, but I don't see why not when they are not in it or look like going to be put in it, then Georgia will never ever have a first meeting with Wales unless they draw in the World Cup

I want Wales vs Gerogia to happen. I want Italy vs Georgia to happen too. But not in the month of November for the reason that Gerogia needs to host matches at the same time. You live in the Ospreys zone and can make a differnce. You could contact your local MP about the lack of test rugby at Liberty Stadium and ask him or her to try to change his. Suggest Wales vs Georgia at a suitable time. Maybe In June before the tour of Australia. From there its s aimple excercise of the MP doing his or her job and firstly contacting the authoriters from the Ospreys region and then the WRU.

There's not really a need when all those places are within an hours drive of Cardiff. 40,000+ turn out for ever Wales game, even Canada etc. They'll get over 60,000 for Samoa and Tonga, so limiting that to 20,000 at the Libery, 15,000 at Parc Y Scarlets, and ~ 10,000 at Rodney Parade would be a little silly. Better the WRU make more money, and give it back to the regions or grass-roots rugby.

Of course there is no need but this is hardly the point. Size is not everything. I was at the World Cup last year and can say it was clear that moving matches is the way to go. Argentina vs Scotland... best match I went to. Over 10,000 empty seats! Two days latter... Italy vs USA with a few hundred empty seats. Take games to the people don´t sit back and say that Cardiff is central and easy for everyone.

Argentina are spot on in going for San Juan and Tucumán to host games this year. At 25,000 and 32,000 neither compares to Buenos Aires but there are other factors to consider not just the size of ones pockets. The Ospreys get crappy crowds. One way of fixing this is to have more high profile matches. A Welsh international being one of them. Newport and Llanelli´ venues are quite a lot smaller than that of Swansea´ but the suggestion is to move the lowest profile match.

Wales´ strong international showing is not improving the state of Welsh rugby at all. Poor crowds for Anglo-Welsh Cup, Heineken Cup and Pro 12 matches. Moving matches, just one a year would help a lot. The venues are the size they are because the WRU has no interest in having important matches, of any kind, at these venues. With so many Heineken Cup finals being in Cardiff its bizzare to think the WRU have not utilized Swansea at least once for an Amlin Challenge Cup Final. Gloucester has hosted as has the Twickenham Stoop.

Newport and Swansea are large enough cities to merit larger stadiums than what they have. Both are larger than Dunedin which hosted key World Cup matches like Ireland vs Italy and England vs Argentina. Hamilton is another example. Wales played two matches there. Its also smaller than Newport and Swansea. Its remarkable that Welsh people think the system is fine and even ideal... Cardiff has around 100,000 more people than Swansea. Pretty clear that some people are getting the good cuts of the meat. Asking others to spend more on paying for the gasoline to get to the matches is a quick-fix solution. Just evading the real problem of Welsh rugby. The difference of the NZRU´s policy of spreading matches is apparant and it is one of the reasons for New Zealand rugby being so strong. Welsh rugby is strong... could be much strong, esp within its borders. The cities have the money for the stadiums to be larger but getting MP´s to upgrade is not viable as the WRU is not helpful at all.

The state of the regions is hardly successful. Many want them gone, others want more regions. Almost nobody wants to keep the status quo. If the WRU want to really make the regions happy and do what they can to see that they are sustainable and will actually work then it needs to think about the Welsh team. Its all good and well to have Dan Lydiate and Luke Charteris from the Dragons and doing really well for Wales but there is the factor that the Dragons are poor. The Ospreys is packed with test players but the crowds are poor. they should be much bigger. The WRU can help this by moving the Samoa clash.

Sure, there is debt to be paid but look at how well Wales does for getting crowds. Its not exactly like the debt is going to go out of hand by giving Swansea one match. From a costs and benefits perspective there are, for me, many more positives than negatives from having Samoa play at Liberty Stadium.

Excuse this terrible quality. I didn´t make the video. But, it still shows the success of Ospreys vs Australia. The venue is crying out for international rugby.

 

[welshglory]

So you think building bigger stadiums is going to magically make everything ok

 

[cyRil]

Melhor, no offence mate but you honestly don't get our situation at all.

 

[Melhor Time]

welshglory

Not at all. I think the WRU can do a better job and part of that would be to do more outside of Cardiff. Over time it is likely to have better results than the current policies. One such result would be that Llanelli and Newport could both go their regional government authorities showing why they merit larger stadiums. But if things stay as they are the crowds will keep being low and Welsh ruigby won´t improve from a domestic standpoint.

Cyril

No offence taken. Just my thoughts on how things should go forward.

 

[welshglory]

As Cyril said you don't really understand the situation at all

 

[Me 1]

Excuse this terrible quality. I didn´t make the video. But, it still shows the success of Ospreys vs Australia. The venue is crying out for international rugby.

Yes but that's Ospreys v. Australia, not Wales. I wouldn't be against any of our regions hosting a national side(RGC are hosting Georgia at the end of the month) but our national side needs to play at the Millennium.

 

[Saintjay]

I can't remember who, but one of the Welsh greats came out last week and said he believes that the regions will fail sooner rather than later and that an 8 team welsh league will be the way forward. Not sure if it's a good idea or not leaving the Rabo as an 8 team league also.

Oh and RG1404 tickets now on sale £10, kids go free. Kick off 7.30pm 31 March 2012.

 

[Draggs]

Probably be better for a Wales A side though at the moment.

Yes, I agree with you there.

@ Melhor.
Do you know how far Dunedin is from Auckland and Wellington?
How about Newport and Swansea from Cardiff?

 

[Me 1]

correction, they are hosting Georgia A, and unlike the team that plays in the IRB Nations Cup which is unofficially Georgia A, this team will be officially Georgia A, in fact they just announced the touring squad

http://worldsport.ge/Read.aspx?news=32931&lang=1

I think building larger stadiums would be a large waste of money, it would just mean even more rubbish atmosphere matches like seen at the Liberty and CCS, if anything the Ospreys should move out to a smaller grounf and just play big matches at the Liberty Stadium in a similar way that Top 14 teams move into football stadia for big matches

Just saying what it's being billed as

 

[dullonien]

Mehlor. I appreciate the time you've put into you post above, but I don't agree that the problems in Wales' domestic game can be cured by the national team. Moving a match here and there will do nothing. especially if it's only down the road to Newport or Swansea. If there was a bog enough stadium in the north, then I'd completely agree that moving a game like Wales v Canada to somewhere like Wrexham would be a good idea.

I don't think you can use what NZ did in the WC as an example. In order to host the WC alone, they simply had to spread the matches around, and in order to do so, they spent a lot of money building and upgrading stadia. If they could they would have maximised revenue by hosting all the big games in their largest stadia. I wouldn't describe NZ as hugely successful either as far as crowd numbers go, because they've been in a similar state to where Wales have found ourselves with not enough money to retain their top players when the big bucks are offered. So far they've offset that with their policy on not selecting foreign based players, something they can fully implement given their depth of talent.

To sort out the mess that is domestic rugby in Wales, we've got to get fans interested in the regions again. To do that we need successful regions, playing a brand of rugby that the supporters want to see. Playing an international game at one of the regions every season won't help. Sure it'll sell out, but it won't suddenly change peoples minds about the regions.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I read what was posted, walked away and came back to answer this ....

I want Wales vs Gerogia to happen. I want Italy vs Georgia to happen too. But not in the month of November for the reason that Gerogia needs to host matches at the same time. You live in the Ospreys zone and can make a differnce. You could contact your local MP about the lack of test rugby at Liberty Stadium and ask him or her to try to change his. Suggest Wales vs Georgia at a suitable time. Maybe In June before the tour of Australia. From there its s aimple excercise of the MP doing his or her job and firstly contacting the authoriters from the Ospreys region and then the WRU.

This is never a possibility. The MP will not campaign for or put this to parliament or the Welsh Assembly. One the Welsh Assembly have no say over the matter and two the WRU won't allow for it to happen considering they are in debt for constructing the Millennium Stadium. Also the Ospreys have no right to dictate terms to the WRU in terms of international fixtures. If you differ in this view then you cannot be serious. Wales will one day play Georgia in a friendly fixture but when that happens it will likely be at the MS.

Of course there is no need but this is hardly the point. Size is not everything. I was at the World Cup last year and can say it was clear that moving matches is the way to go. Argentina vs Scotland... best match I went to. Over 10,000 empty seats! Two days latter... Italy vs USA with a few hundred empty seats. Take games to the people don´t sit back and say that Cardiff is central and easy for everyone.

Fact is ... Cardiff is. The transport facilities can cater and deal for large crowds (despite not always running on time) and there is enough space for everyone (bar last Saturday, when it seemed the whole of Wales descended on Cardiff). Cardiff is far easier than places such as the Liberty. Also your argument using the World Cup does not work for your argument because a World Cup brings added hype and added interest in rugby.

Argentina are spot on in going for San Juan and Tucumán to host games this year. At 25,000 and 32,000 neither compares to Buenos Aires but there are other factors to consider not just the size of ones pockets. The Ospreys get crappy crowds. One way of fixing this is to have more high profile matches. A Welsh international being one of them. Newport and Llanelli´ venues are quite a lot smaller than that of Swansea´ but the suggestion is to move the lowest profile match.

Argentina this and Argentina that. They are not the be all and end all. But when you consider that Argentina has some 40,000,000 people in a wider space and Wales only 3,000,000 in a concentrated area then moving games is not easy. Yes, not the whole of Argentina watches Rugby, same goes for in Wales. Moving it around Argentina makes more sense than it does in Wales because Argentina is massive and you need to take the game to other parts of it. The same argument can be said in Wales but travelling in Wales is not as massive as it is in Argentina. By moving it in Wales, you literally move it 30 mins one way and 20 odd the other. Literally there is no point to do it in Wales.

No it won't fix it. What's this Jim'll Fix It post? One game is not going to sort it. Far from it.

Wales´ strong international showing is not improving the state of Welsh rugby at all. Poor crowds for Anglo-Welsh Cup, Heineken Cup and Pro 12 matches. Moving matches, just one a year would help a lot. The venues are the size they are because the WRU has no interest in having important matches, of any kind, at these venues. With so many Heineken Cup finals being in Cardiff its bizzare to think the WRU have not utilized Swansea at least once for an Amlin Challenge Cup Final. Gloucester has hosted as has the Twickenham Stoop.

Poor crowds are down to a number of things. Ticket pricing, all / most games are all on tv, people's finances, days / time games are played / people playing rugby when games are on etc. are all a few reasons why regions are not getting the crowds.

Moving one game to the Liberty will not solve the problem.

It's not bizzare at all, more common sense sunshine. The HEC Finals have sold well in the MS. Still remember going to watch Munster vs. Toulouse and no word of a lie Munster must have bought at least 70,000 seats that day. The days have also been successful. Last year they played at the MS and Cardiff City Stadium on the same weekend. From what I gather it went down a treat and a good weekend was had by all (who won). Maybe they could have moved the Amlin to Swansea but the weekend was billed to be in Cardiff. Also when you got one of the best stadiums in the world in Cardiff no need to look elsewhere.

Newport and Swansea are large enough cities to merit larger stadiums than what they have. Both are larger than Dunedin which hosted key World Cup matches like Ireland vs Italy and England vs Argentina. Hamilton is another example. Wales played two matches there. Its also smaller than Newport and Swansea. Its remarkable that Welsh people think the system is fine and even ideal... Cardiff has around 100,000 more people than Swansea. Pretty clear that some people are getting the good cuts of the meat. Asking others to spend more on paying for the gasoline to get to the matches is a quick-fix solution. Just evading the real problem of Welsh rugby. The difference of the NZRU´s policy of spreading matches is apparant and it is one of the reasons for New Zealand rugby being so strong. Welsh rugby is strong... could be much strong, esp within its borders. The cities have the money for the stadiums to be larger but getting MP´s to upgrade is not viable as the WRU is not helpful at all.

Based upon what? There is not the demand. Wales National Stadium is in Cardiff. 'Duw' move on boy.

Not the World Cup argument again. You can't use that as I explained earlier, World Cup hype and all that.

Not everyone from Cardiff goes to the game, people come from every corner of Wales to the game. I just don't get the 100,000 more people argument, infact there is greater than 100,000 difference but thats beside the point.

Enlighten me where the the cities have this apparent money? We are in a recession ... a WORLD one. Where is this money you so speak of? If found please send it this way please. The WRU don't have to help expand the stadiums because these stadiums are owned by others and have no association / affiliation to the WRU. Ospreys share with Swansea City FC and The Blues - Cardiff City FC. The Dragons and Scarlets are independant but the demand for each to be expanded is not viable.

The state of the regions is hardly successful. Many want them gone, others want more regions. Almost nobody wants to keep the status quo. If the WRU want to really make the regions happy and do what they can to see that they are sustainable and will actually work then it needs to think about the Welsh team. Its all good and well to have Dan Lydiate and Luke Charteris from the Dragons and doing really well for Wales but there is the factor that the Dragons are poor. The Ospreys is packed with test players but the crowds are poor. they should be much bigger. The WRU can help this by moving the Samoa clash.

Cheers for pointing this out.

Thats down to the coaching setup and the culture that has been installed within the clubs, especially at the Ospreys. Also financial backers are also there for the likes of the Ospreys comapred to that of the Dragons. But this is changing next season. The world recession has hit sporting clubs hard no more so than in Wales with the regions and with French clubs being able to offer buckets of Euros to play overseas then regions cannot compete.

Sure, there is debt to be paid but look at how well Wales does for getting crowds. Its not exactly like the debt is going to go out of hand by giving Swansea one match. From a costs and benefits perspective there are, for me, many more positives than negatives from having Samoa play at Liberty Stadium.

Excuse this terrible quality. I didn´t make the video. But, it still shows the success of Ospreys vs Australia. The venue is crying out for international rugby.

You have no idea sadly. It will make a small dent selling out at a 20,000 seater stadium. But selling 45,000 - 55,000 seats is a big difference, £1,125,000 - £1,375,000 is money difference considering only selling out 20,000 makes £500,000 at the marked ticket price for the Samoa game of £25. So the difference is quite evident in helping to clear the debt. In reality its quite a naïve view you have undertaken here. Money talks.

For someone who has been to the Liberty and a regular goer to the MS then I can say that getting to the MS is easier than getting to the Liberty. When you think of moving games you really got to think of will the transport links cope. Cardiff is built to deal with it, Swansea is not (some will disagree with me here but thats how I feel about it.)

The Ospreys vs. Australia match was a touring match which in my opinion need to comeback when teams tour. The game will not make as much money as it would in Cardiff and in the current economic climate of things, then whatever makes the most money will get the game.

 

[Melhor Time]

I can't remember who, but one of the Welsh greats came out last week and said he believes that the regions will fail sooner rather than later and that an 8 team welsh league will be the way forward. Not sure if it's a good idea or not leaving the Rabo as an 8 team league also.

Oh and RG1404 tickets now on sale £10, kids go free. Kick off 7.30pm 31 March 2012.

A question to anyone and everyone is that if the regions collapse, end or whatever then what to do?

There would be a massive fight for eight places. Ospreys divided, at least, between Swansea and Neath for instance. Bridgend wanting a team. Pontypridd, Wrexham, etc. I would think the WRU needs to fight hard to not let the regions fall.

Yes, I agree with you there.

@ Melhor.
Do you know how far Dunedin is from Auckland and Wellington?
How about Newport and Swansea from Cardiff?

No arguments from me at all. The drive from Christchurch to Dunedin had nothing in between. 4 small towns.

But keep in mind that Palmerston North is close to Wellington. It got two games. Napier is not far from P.N either it got two as well. Hamilton is 1 hour from Auckland it got three. Sure the distances in Wales are even smaller. I totally agree. Ipm just saying and, moreover, wanting to know about how Wales can really kick on since it has little hope of doing so with its regional system.

Mehlor. I appreciate the time you've put into you post above, but I don't agree that the problems in Wales' domestic game can be cured by the national team. Moving a match here and there will do nothing. especially if it's only down the road to Newport or Swansea. If there was a bog enough stadium in the north, then I'd completely agree that moving a game like Wales v Canada to somewhere like Wrexham would be a good idea.

I don't think you can use what NZ did in the WC as an example. In order to host the WC alone, they simply had to spread the matches around, and in order to do so, they spent a lot of money building and upgrading stadia. If they could they would have maximised revenue by hosting all the big games in their largest stadia. I wouldn't describe NZ as hugely successful either as far as crowd numbers go, because they've been in a similar state to where Wales have found ourselves with not enough money to retain their top players when the big bucks are offered. So far they've offset that with their policy on not selecting foreign based players, something they can fully implement given their depth of talent.

To sort out the mess that is domestic rugby in Wales, we've got to get fans interested in the regions again. To do that we need successful regions, playing a brand of rugby that the supporters want to see. Playing an international game at one of the regions every season won't help. Sure it'll sell out, but it won't suddenly change peoples minds about the regions.

Pretty hard to compare Wales with New Zealand. Similarly hard to compare Wales with anywhere. I appreciate it that people think Cardiff is great - sure it is. Best rugby stadium in the world in an ideal location. If Welsh people are happy and think there is no need to play elsewhere then thats that.

I like the solutions offered in your post. Getting people interested is the answer. I mentioned one test a year outside of Cardiff. Maybe Swansea hosting the Amlin Challenge Cup Final - since its so close to Cardiff and everyone is happy to go to Cardiff then an Amlin Final is certainly not a big ask for Liberty Stadium. If moving matches is not going to work then what will?

I don´t mean to say jsut moving the odd game will make the world of difference. I think it is a start and needs to be a part of a larger project that incorporates changing the landscape.

This is never a possibility. The MP will not campaign for or put this to parliament or the Welsh Assembly. One the Welsh Assembly have no say over the matter and two the WRU won't allow for it to happen considering they are in debt for constructing the Millennium Stadium. Also the Ospreys have no right to dictate terms to the WRU in terms of international fixtures. If you differ in this view then you cannot be serious. Wales will one day play Georgia in a friendly fixture but when that happens it will likely be at the MS.

1. MP´s exist to represent the public. If there is support for Swansea to host a match and an MP is contacted, petioned or so on then thats his or her duty to go from there. If not and nobody wants Swansea to host a match then nothing will be done.

2. If the WRU is approached and pressured then The WRU can always book a June or December international to make up the difference and more like it has been doing vs South Africa and Australia.

Fact is ... Cardiff is. The transport facilities can cater and deal for large crowds (despite not always running on time) and there is enough space for everyone (bar last Saturday, when it seemed the whole of Wales descended on Cardiff). Cardiff is far easier than places such as the Liberty. Also your argument using the World Cup does not work for your argument because a World Cup brings added hype and added interest in rugby.



Argentina this and Argentina that. They are not the be all and end all. But when you consider that Argentina has some 40,000,000 people in a wider space and Wales only 3,000,000 in a concentrated area then moving games is not easy. Yes, not the whole of Argentina watches Rugby, same goes for in Wales. Moving it around Argentina makes more sense than it does in Wales because Argentina is massive and you need to take the game to other parts of it. The same argument can be said in Wales but travelling in Wales is not as massive as it is in Argentina. By moving it in Wales, you literally move it 30 mins one way and 20 odd the other. Literally there is no point to do it in Wales.

No it won't fix it. What's this Jim'll Fix It post? One game is not going to sort it. Far from it.



Poor crowds are down to a number of things. Ticket pricing, all / most games are all on tv, people's finances, days / time games are played / people playing rugby when games are on etc. are all a few reasons why regions are not getting the crowds.

Moving one game to the Liberty will not solve the problem.

It's not bizzare at all, more common sense sunshine. The HEC Finals have sold well in the MS. Still remember going to watch Munster vs. Toulouse and no word of a lie Munster must have bought at least 70,000 seats that day. The days have also been successful. Last year they played at the MS and Cardiff City Stadium on the same weekend. From what I gather it went down a treat and a good weekend was had by all (who won). Maybe they could have moved the Amlin to Swansea but the weekend was billed to be in Cardiff. Also when you got one of the best stadiums in the world in Cardiff no need to look elsewhere.



Based upon what? There is not the demand. Wales National Stadium is in Cardiff. 'Duw' move on boy.

Not the World Cup argument again. You can't use that as I explained earlier, World Cup hype and all that.

Not everyone from Cardiff goes to the game, people come from every corner of Wales to the game. I just don't get the 100,000 more people argument, infact there is greater than 100,000 difference but thats beside the point.

Sure they do... even more reason to have more games outside of Cardiff. Or does the WFU give them subsidized gasoline.....

Enlighten me where the the cities have this apparent money? We are in a recession ... a WORLD one. Where is this money you so speak of? If found please send it this way please. The WRU don't have to help expand the stadiums because these stadiums are owned by others and have no association / affiliation to the WRU. Ospreys share with Swansea City FC and The Blues - Cardiff City FC. The Dragons and Scarlets are independant but the demand for each to be expanded is not viable.

All cities do. Projects need to be made to apply for it. Thats how it works. I am doing it right nwo to apply for money to pay for my clubs expenses this year. Managers from the world over deal with local, federal and even national governments to get funding.

Of course its not viable to expand but since Wales gets fullhouses for tests and nobody goes to Dragons, Blues, Ospreys or Scarlets matches something is not being done correctly. If you think the status quo is great then thats over to you. Most people I´ve talked to (lots at the World Cup) hate the regions.

Cheers for pointing this out.

Thats down to the coaching setup and the culture that has been installed within the clubs, especially at the Ospreys. Also financial backers are also there for the likes of the Ospreys comapred to that of the Dragons. But this is changing next season. The world recession has hit sporting clubs hard no more so than in Wales with the regions and with French clubs being able to offer buckets of Euros to play overseas then regions cannot compete.

I live in a third world country. Not having much money is a daily routine for most people. On Sunday my brother and law, his girlfriend and my sister in law went to watch Comercial vs Corinthians (soccer) in Ribeirão Preto. The tickets were R$60. None of them make the kind of money that the average Welshmen or Welshwomen makes. Considering purchasing power the tickets were a rip-off. Guessing I´d say thats upwards of £80 and for a state match, not a national league one orn international one.

You have no idea sadly. It will make a small dent selling out at a 20,000 seater stadium. But selling 45,000 - 55,000 seats is a big difference, £1,125,000 - £1,375,000 is money difference considering only selling out 20,000 makes £500,000 at the marked ticket price for the Samoa game of £25. So the difference is quite evident in helping to clear the debt. In reality its quite a naïve view you have undertaken here. Money talks.

I work with a millionaire who invests a lot in areas that brings him little return financially but guarantees the brand name is strong - even if nobody buys as pften its all about exposure. Strong names in areas even where he doesn´t sell products. Making a sustainable product involves more than just looking to always make the most profits possible. Investiment comes in many shapes and sizes. But, you are saying investing is out of the question and you used the word naive. Whether you understood the point or not, I can´t say but having matches outside of Cardiff serves for more than just having games in more places it promotes the product. I used to live in the USA and a former boss of mine once took a generous offer from coca-cola to be paid a large sum every year to not sell pepsi in his restaurant. Coke would have struggled to make profits from him but it was after more than just money..... Heineken lost millions upon millions from being the supplier of sodas at the World Cup. The money made from selling beer was minute compared to what the company paid RWC Ltd to be the supplier.

Moreover, Nelson´s temporary seating for its World Cup matches cost more than how much money was made from having the matches. In other words, Nelson operated on a loss. Many New Zealand venues did. They had to as many stadiums are so small. Liberty Stadium, in contrast is ready. No temporary seating required.

The Ospreys vs. Australia match was a touring match which in my opinion need to comeback when teams tour. The game will not make as much money as it would in Cardiff and in the current economic climate of things, then whatever makes the most money will get the game.

Thats a solution. Again, though, the WRU have not been seeing that it happens. I am sure Samoa, Australia, Argentina or New Zealand would accept a match vs the Scarlets, Dragons or Ospreys if approached. Argentina took one vs Worcester last year. It is certainly a way to push forward the regions.

 

[dullonien]

Thats a solution. Again, though, the WRU have not been seeing that it happens. I am sure Samoa, Australia, Argentina or New Zealand would accept a match vs the Scarlets, Dragons or Ospreys if approached. Argentina took one vs Worcester last year. It is certainly a way to push forward the regions.

I agree with this final point. But I believe that midweek games like this is organised between the regions and the touring union, and would have nothing to do with the WRU. Ultimately, touring sides have been less inclined to organise midweek games against club teams for whatever reason (although to be fair to NZ, Aus and SA, they've organised a good few, us in the NH haven't played a midweek game for donkeys years).

None of this fixes any of the big problems that's wrong with regional rugby in Wales though. It may give a quick payday to the region (and the stadium owners, which in the Blues and Ospreys case is a 3rd party), but it doesn't address the reasons why the fans don't want to watch regional rugby.

Regional rugby was a complete mess from the beginning, because the clubs refused to accept the WRU's initial plans which would have seen a more balanced setup than we have now. Llanelli and Swansea (along with a few other clubs) should have formed one region (not superclub which the Scarlets basically are now), but they hated each other's guts so was a no go from the start. Cardiff and Newport etc. could have formed another region, giving the valleys a region, and a final development region in North Wales. But none of the fans or the clubs at the time wanted this, so we were left with this hack- job, and still people are unhappy. In Ireland there were already existing provinces, so setting-up the four rugby provinces was straightforward, I'm sure the same can be said of NZ to some extent. Wales' geography, resulting in endless clubs packed into one small corridor along the M4, with massive rivalries between the clubs meant that no-one was going to be happy what ever happened.

Is going back to clubs the answer? No, a million times no! We would never be competitive in a league of our own, without the Irish, Scots and Italians to play against week in week out. Also what would happen to the Pro12, who would the rest play? Either the regions are re-structured in some way, or it's left as it is with minor changes made to try and make the fans happy. There really isn't a quick fix.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Please quote propelry in the future, so I can address it properly. Thanks.

Argh ... this is frustrating.

Melhor first off, Dull answered it but the WRU have nothing to do with touring teams and midweek. The IRB are encouraging touring teams to revert back to traditional tours, see here: http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2037367.html

MP's can't dictate to the WRU ... so that's the end of that.

Cities are not going to fork out money in a stadium upgrade when there are other issues that money is needed to improve things. The stadiums are big enough, they need filling and your only suggestion is to move a game. This is not the answer. You seemed to gloss over the real problems I mentioned in my post about regional gates. Also before you go assuming things about me, you will find that I am not a fan of how the regional systems have been and on this very board in the past I have disclosed my displeasure for them and most people also don't like the setup.

Melhor you got to understand, I can't stress enough to you which may or may not go into your mind is that currently money talks. You seem to think making a loss like Dunedin did is acceptable but its not. For Wales which is such a small country its vital to capitalise on money making things as it can. Hence moving games to the Liberty / Parc Y Scarlets is not not feasible. I guess you have never been inside the MS but it has brands on its adboards and inside the stadium.

You say 'promote the product' ... ye you are right. The product is rugby. That starts at the regions by sorting the issues that I disclosed in my main post. Not only that the WRU charge cheap tickets and family deals for the Friday Night November tests and the Barbarians Fixtures. WRU try to encourage a different type of client through the gates of the MS. The problem comes when the big teams are in town then the prices go up, something stupid. Considering when I went to watch my first Wales game in the Cardiff Arms Park in 1996, Wales vs. Australia, I only costed my Dad £25 and Dad cost himself £35 with a program costing £2. Now ticket for me and Dad are £66 each and a £5 for a match program. Problem lies with the ticket pricing scheme of the WRU. Had they lowered the prices for the Italy game then they would have sold the 20,000 + seats that were unsold.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

if there was a 40,000-50,000 stadium alternative to the Millennium Stadium somewhere else in the country where matches against the less big ticket sellers could be staged, I would be for the matches being sold out there rather than 20,000 empty seats at the Millennium

but the second biggest stadium is the Cardiff City Stadium, which is 27,000 and then the Liberty Stadium which is 20,000 and there is not really any point moving it there when lesser games against Barbarians, Fiji, Samoa or Argentina all still get at least 50,000 plus crowds about double the second highest capacity ground

the fact is, there is no other alternative to the MS as all the others are too small and there is no point anyway as they are so close you are just turning away at least 30,000 ticket payers

looking back over Wales attendances in the last five or so years, only two matches at the MS have got less than 50,000, one against Japan in the RWC 07 (about 35,000), and the Barbarians last year (31,000), every other match has more than at least 50,000

Pretty much agree with this. I there was another 50,000 stadium then id agree that games should be moved.

 

[Robert Prosser]

if there was a 40,000-50,000 stadium alternative to the Millennium Stadium somewhere else in the country where matches against the less big ticket sellers could be staged, I would be for the matches being sold out there rather than 20,000 empty seats at the Millennium

but the second biggest stadium is the Cardiff City Stadium, which is 27,000 and then the Liberty Stadium which is 20,000 and there is not really any point moving it there when lesser games against Barbarians, Fiji, Samoa or Argentina all still get at least 50,000 plus crowds about double the second highest capacity ground

the fact is, there is no other alternative to the MS as all the others are too small and there is no point anyway as they are so close you are just turning away at least 30,000 ticket payers

looking back over Wales attendances in the last five or so years, only two matches at the MS have got less than 50,000, one against Japan in the RWC 07 (about 35,000), and the Barbarians last year (31,000), every other match has more than at least 50,000

And now we have won the Grand Slam after a good showing at the world cup I am more than pretty sure who ever we play will bring in around 65 to 70,000 fans to the game as the excitement is back around the country for the international game.

Mehlor as for all this moving a game here and there its definitely not the way what they need to do at regional games right now in my eyes is half the price of tickets put them level with the Irish teams that way fans will come more as I believe its currently way to expensive to go and watch regional rugby atm, especially given the sub standard rugby on offer.

 

[welshglory]

Plus the regional model is just overall crap

 

[William18]

In New Zealand games are spread around because Eden Park is not going to sell out for 8 All Blacks tests a year. If their are still big crowds at the Millennium Stadium for the lesser teams then they should continue to play there.

 

[Melhor Time]

Is going back to clubs the answer? No, a million times no! We would never be competitive in a league of our own, without the Irish, Scots and Italians to play against week in week out. Also what would happen to the Pro12, who would the rest play? Either the regions are re-structured in some way, or it's left as it is with minor changes made to try and make the fans happy. There really isn't a quick fix.

After a game last year I was having a beer with an Irishman who like me lives in Brazil. He thinks Wales should leave the Pro 12 and enter the Aviva Premiership to make it a genuine Anglo-Welsh competition with four Welsh sides and ten English.

Is anyone is favor of this?

You say 'promote the product' ... ye you are right. The product is rugby. That starts at the regions by sorting the issues that I disclosed in my main post. Not only that the WRU charge cheap tickets and family deals for the Friday Night November tests and the Barbarians Fixtures. WRU try to encourage a different type of client through the gates of the MS. The problem comes when the big teams are in town then the prices go up, something stupid. Considering when I went to watch my first Wales game in the Cardiff Arms Park in 1996, Wales vs. Australia, I only costed my Dad £25 and Dad cost himself £35 with a program costing £2. Now ticket for me and Dad are £66 each and a £5 for a match program. Problem lies with the ticket pricing scheme of the WRU. Had they lowered the prices for the Italy game then they would have sold the 20,000 + seats that were unsold.

I agree.

And now we have won the Grand Slam after a good showing at the world cup I am more than pretty sure who ever we play will bring in around 65 to 70,000 fans to the game as the excitement is back around the country for the international game.

Mehlor as for all this moving a game here and there its definitely not the way what they need to do at regional games right now in my eyes is half the price of tickets put them level with the Irish teams that way fans will come more as I believe its currently way to expensive to go and watch regional rugby atm, especially given the sub standard rugby on offer.

My outsiders perspective is the WRU assume that because rugby and Wales go hand-in-hand that regional matches can be sold at a high rate. Of course, people hate the regions and here lies the problem. This is why i´ve been suggesting moving some big matches could help. What it boils down to is the WRU can invest heavily in the regions or it can admit they are wrong and scrap them entirely.