Upset of the tournament

[smartcooky]

Melhor thinks the All Blacks only win because they are "lucky". Well then, lets have a look at some recent results then:

2005 All Blacks

a 3 zip whitewash of the Lions, scoring 12 lucky tries to 3 :cheers:

v Wales 45-3 (my goodness, those five tries were lucky weren't they)
v Ireland 41-7 (holy cow, another five lucky tries)
v England 23-19 (only two lucky tries here. Lucky for England though, they had 16 players against the AB's 13.
v Scotland 29-10 (four lucky tries else Scotland might have won (for the first time ever after 101 years of failing)

Oh, looky here, that's a lucky old GRAND SLAM!!!, scoring 16 lucky tries to 4. :bleh!:

2006 All Blacks

v France 47-3 (seven really lucky tries in this match)

2004-2006 - 139 lucky tries for 55 against.

I could go on, but I trust I have made my point.

I find it incredible that you actually believe the tripe you are posting here Melhor.

No, actually, thinking about it, I don't find it incredible.

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

....a 3 zip whitewash of the Lions, scoring 12 lucky tries to 3 :
[/b]

They only scored 12 tries against the Lions?
f*** me, the tour felt like such a kicking i could have been sure there were more tries scored.

 

[smartcooky]

Yep. Only 12.

Only two in the first test (in the absolute belting rain and cold at Jade), and five in each of the other two tests. Maybe the 10 in the last two made it feel like more.

Still a dicking any way you look at it.

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

Still a dicking any way you look at it.
[/b]

I'm sure there was a polite, more modeste way of expressing yourself then, but i've come to realise a lot of the AB fans on here aren't capable of modesty.

 

[Ripper]

<div class='quotemain'>
Still a dicking any way you look at it.
[/b]

I'm sure there was a polite, more modeste way of expressing yourself then, but i've come to realise a lot of the AB fans on here aren't capable of modesty.
[/b][/quote]
I personally can't think of a more polite way of saying it... the Lions were given a hefty spanking?

4. The AB's score a high ration from long distance. Thats right, like I have been saying. I still can't find any of the desperate NZ posters on this forum providing mwe with evidence that I am wrong on this. they are trying but failing badly. [/b]

Wow... so because they break the line so easily they are lucky? Why do you refuse to entertain the notion that maybe its not the AB's being lucky, but maybe its the fact they break the line so easily, personally I would rather my team is able to score from anywhere, anytime in a variety of ways rather than have to rely on 30 phase pick and go's where the risks of turning it over are much higher, but whatever.

So next time don't make up lies to try to dig tourself out of a hole.[/b]

Your last post to me was full of lies of things I supposedly said, funnily enough you chose to ignore it when I asked you to provide evidence that I said things like BOD deserved everything he got and that I didn't know who Jerry Collins is. Maybe you should heed your own advice?

Looks like Prestwick was a bit too trigger happy with the rep.

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Still a dicking any way you look at it.
[/b]

I'm sure there was a polite, more modeste way of expressing yourself then, but i've come to realise a lot of the AB fans on here aren't capable of modesty.
[/b][/quote]
I personally can't think of a more polite way of saying it... the Lions were given a hefty spanking?
[/b][/quote]

I like it.
Doesn't sound so sexually explicit anymore. Doesn't make it sound like it was a raping...even if it was borderline.

 

[shtove]

I don't give two flying farks about the lions.

The RWC is all that matters.

AB supporters here have good knowledge, but there's too much toeing of the party line. And when Melhor talks about 'lucky' tries, I don't think he means they weren't deserved - but they're the kind of scores that won't come so easy when the pressure is on.

 

[TRUE LEGND]

I asked you for some proof that NZ don't score a high number of tries from opposition errors and from outside of the attaqcking zone and you have failed bigtime. [/b]

You give me proof of a team your talking about? I believe your talking about something phenomenal Id really love to see the results you say??

You have also tries saying I said Rokocoko was poached. Tahts another lie. [/b]

Here's 1 for you :cheers: Your attempts at defending yourself are poor. You would struggle to get a C' at university. "You have also tries saying I said Rokocoko was poached" Doe's that make sense to you son??? I'm sure you know the argument I'm on about melhor... It was I who cut you down on that argument and somethings like that you surly never forget... And ever since that debate i thought "This guy doesn't know his fact's" Someone who doesnt bother to check his facts...Remember you started a thread NZ poaching P.Is which went 12 pages strong :cheers: you were also even known to use multiple user names...

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

Well done, you pointed out a typo:
"You have also tries saying I said Rokocoko was poached"

Change one letter...
"You have also tried saying I said Rokocoko was poached"

...and it makes sense.

 

[BokMagic]

Right, firstly I believe that Melhor has a point wrt the AB`s being beatable if the opposition on the day really turns up the heat defensively. The only 3 losses that the AB`s suffered over the last 3 seasons, have been at the hands of a committed rush defense in the Republic, which effectively reduced time on the ball and generally harrassed them into a couple of mistakes. This does not mean that the AB`s have got a great weakness there though, as last year`s romp at Loftus certainly proved.

On the point of "lucky" tries, yeah well I`ve also heard that a guy like Jean De Villiers or Bryan Habana scores the greater majority of their tries through sheer luck. Of course, making sure that you occupy the space into which the pass will go, and then having the skills to finish off from broken play, doesn`t require any skill at all, just a healthy dose of luck hey. In much the same way, if the AB`s have got the skills to score from a long distance out, straight from either a turnover or a clean line break, well that takes a helluva lot of skill IMO.

During the 2004 tri-nations, the Boks won simply on the grounds of scoring their tries with the least amount of time in possession of the ball. The 2005 AB`s did much the same, scoring a try for every 6 minutes in possession. Same result for Wales in the 2005 six nations, they scored a try for every 6-odd minutes of possession also. You see, possession and territory in itself is not the end in itself, but just the means to an end, the end being the scoring of tries.

 

[BigTen]

Luck in sport is and always has been an interesting topic.

In my experience and humble opinion every team, at some point in time, will always get a healthy dose of luck and it is only the really good teams that can then convert that into action.

Take the Sharks v Bulls Super 14 final. It was luck for the Bulls that the conversion attempt by the Sharks was missed. Had the kick gone over, and remember that the Bulls had no real ability to stop this from happening, then the game would have been taken away from the Bulls. This was lucky for the Bulls but they still had to be good enough to have kept themselves in the game up to that point and they also had to score a converted try to win the final. This they did and it was down to a fair amount of luck but they also needed a great deal of skill to ensure that they walked away with the trophy.

Another example is the Bayern Munich v Manchester United Champion's League Final back in 1999. Going into the final moments of the game Bayern were deservingly in the lead; 1-0 up and having hit the woodwork everyone waited for the referee to blow the final whistle. Were Manchester United lucky to end up as the winners? They still needed to score two very late goals and that meant that they needed a lot of skill. They also needed a fair bit of luck especially as the Germans were extremely good at defending set-pieces. Man Utd did have a lot of luck but they also had the skill that was needed to convert that luck into a positive result.

The All Blacks are exactly like that also. They put pressure on the opposition and turn that pressure into points. Is that lucky? At times, maybe? But to do it so constantly seems to dissipate the point that the All Blacks are lucky. After all you can't be lucky all the time.

As for putting pressure on the All Blacks, starving them of possession and making your tackles. Any team that does that absolutely has a chance of beating them. It is far easy said than done however. Ireland, Scotland, Argentina, and Wales (since 1953) and others have all been trying to this and so far none of them have succeeded so far.

 

[Melhor Time]

And when Melhor talks about 'lucky' tries, I don't think he means they weren't deserved - but they're the kind of scores that won't come so easy when the pressure is on.
[/b]

Take a bow Sir, thats exactly it. :bravo:

I have already picked Australia, who have the worst scrum of all contenders, to drop out at the QF stage. Its quite interesting that there was not one comment in response to this. It seems the suggestion that NZ won´t win is far more controversial even though Australia are likely to encounter far easier opposition.

True Legnd

1. Rugby Cymru has answered for you.

2. Have you looked over additional footage?

 

[shiznit]

i will tell you right now... argentina & italy wont make the 1/4's.

 

[DonBilly]

i will tell you right now... argentina & italy wont make the 1/4's.
[/b]

That's what you call an upset?

 

[shiznit]

it is after reading some of the tripe going around at the moment. apparently those 2 have the strongest scrums in the world.... wouldnt it be an upset if the 2 strongest scrums in the world couldnt get past the group stage??

 

[Ripper]

They probably will make the Quarter Finals - Italy just have to get past Scotland and Rugby will be set to continue it's rise over there.

Argentina could possibly roll either Ireland or the Frogs.

It seems the suggestion that NZ won´t win is far more controversial even though Australia are likely to encounter far easier opposition. [/b]

You seem to be surprised, like this is a shock discovery... you mean that predicting a team that hasn't won the Tri Nations since 2001 or the BC since 2002 and has a foward pack even weaker than Mitchells men of 03 won't do anything is more controversial than saying the team that has only lost no home tests in 4 years and has dominated all those oppose them won't win?

And still waiting for proof about those lies you told about me, especially when you lectured True Legend about such things, makes you look like a (bigger) jackoff.

 

[kbourke88]

The thing is that i dont think anyone denys that the All Blacks are the best team in the world. I dont think anyone denys that their skill level is well above the rest of the world.

I think Melhor makes his big mistake in using the word lucky. I dont think there is anything lucky about the way the All Blacks deal with opposition that they come up against. I think its too much to devalue their performances by calling them lucky. You are a total idiot if you say that them scoring off opposition mistakes isnt as good as grinding it out. Their style of play (big hits from the forwards and centres) causes their opposition to run wide, take risks, and they capitalise on any mistakes made.

The problem for AB world cup teams, in my opinion, has actually been their dominance. They are teams that usually arent used to close games, and they pick poor options under pressure of a loss because of it, especially in world cup crunch games. Because they regularly find themselves competing with daylight, when a team muscles up against them and chokes them of any loose play or penalty points the Kiwis tend to have poor options later in the game and thats why they tend to loose important games (esp to australia and sth africa) and appear to be in total disarray. That is why i would say for them, the results in the super 14 semis can give them the wakeup call they need to muscle up and be the team they can be.

So i guess i forgot to say what my big upset is. I think Fiji will beat Wales and go thru to quarter finals.

I also want to add to the Ripper bashing on this forum. You are a young little upstart arent you! i dont agree with a lot of the things that people are saying about the all blacks (my last post) but it could do u a lot of good to listen to others points about the strengths of other teams. and your argument of AB's not being favourites going into every single world cup is poor. you are young though, and reading info on the internet and actually being around when it happened are two completely different things. They have choked in every world cup since 87, to the pleasure of anyone who isnt a Kiwi!

 

[shiznit]

i agree.... the more close games we have the better. but i do think were getting over the hump of pressure games. the bledisloe game at suncorp last year the all blacks really preformed well under pressure. the last game in south africa we probably didnt get up for it because we already won everything. we just need more of these close games to help us deal with pressure beter.

i also agree with ripper... we all knew the writing was on the wall in '91. '95 we werent favourates until the competition had started. '99 was a choke. '03 was a choke of sorts... england were deservedly favourates to win that comp.

 

[kbourke88]

03 was a funny world cup for me because i had just been living in london, and i was of the mindset going into the world cup that australia had a terrible team and that the only team that could beat england in that world cup was new zealand, because they were the only team that had both the boot and the try scoring ability to take the game away from jonny's boot. so watching that semi final i obviously wanted australia to win, but i also wanted new zealand to go through and beat england. all i want out of this world cup is that england (and all the other northern hemisphere teams for that matter) get beaten and beaten well so that i can win the southern hemisphere argument! haha

I think it will be a major upset for a northern hemisphere team to win this world cup. i dont think france has the ability to play consistently well enough to win 3 or 4 crunch games in a row. i also dont think england, ireland or wales have the all round talent to outclass south africa or new zealand in a crunch game. and any team that wants to win has to beat one or both of those teams, possibly back to back. thats a big ask this year.

The state of Australian rugby makes me think that a big upset would be them getting to the semis. they have a few class players who could get us there, but the entire culture of the wallabies and australian super teams is in trouble because of a shitty administration. the fact that i even hear news of the ARU administration is crap, they need to butt outta things over here.

We also have had eddie jones destroy the spirit of rugby in the wallabies by picking his teams purely on individual stats instead of building a great team who play off eachother. connolly hasnt really had a chance, altho he is a bit of a politicking muppet who needs to remember where his focus as coach should be.

the state of the wallabies at the moment is just plain upsetting in itself. (i had to add the pun)

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

i dont think france has the ability to play consistently well enough to win 3 or 4 crunch games in a row. [/b]

Usually, that statement could be true.

However, because they are on home soil there is every possibility that the French could play the best rugby of the year and blow away all before them. Or they could be awful, with them, who knows?

I've just got a funny feeling that the world is going to see the French at their mecurial best in this tournament. Whether that would be good enough to win it is another question entirely.