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UAR approach Pro14 over Jaguares joining based out of Bilbao

Argentina approach Pro14 over Jaguares potentially joining competition, but from Spain https://the42.ie/5360685

Don't think this is a good idea. They would make the league more competitive like the South Africans. But seems like a bad idea to me to add another country, especially as they wont be based in their own country. They will have no natural rivals in the league. Makes some sense to help TV ratings during these times but can't see it working after the pandemic. What would be their identity? Why would Spaniards go to watch a team made up off and controlled by foreigners? Unless there is a large argentine community in Spain that I'm unaware of.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Redman7 said:
Argentina approach Pro14 over Jaguares potentially joining competition, but from Spain https://the42.ie/5360685

Don't think this is a good idea. They would make the league more competitive like the South Africans. But seems like a bad idea to me to add another country, especially as they wont be based in their own country. They will have no natural rivals in the league. Makes some sense to help TV ratings during these times but can't see it working after the pandemic. What would be their identity? Why would Spaniards go to watch a team made up off and controlled by foreigners? Unless there is a large argentine community in Spain that I'm unaware of.
Click to expand...
The biggest sports stars Spain has ever had are Portuguese and Argentinian.

Bilbao isn't a convenient place to travel to but otherwise I'm all for it. The more high quality rugby teams the better. And it'd be a good opportunity for Wales to drop a franchise which will be the best thing for everyone apart from the, approximately, 28 people who support whichever club gets cut.
 
This could be a lifeline to the Cheetahs

They would need an 18th team to even up the conferences. The logical one would be the Cheetahs

Then have

Conference 1
Jaguares, Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions, Sharks, Stormerrs

Conference 2.
Connacht, Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Edinburgh, Glasgow

Conference 3.
Blues, Dragons, Ospreys, Scarlets, Benetton, Zebre

Home and Away against each team in conference = 10 games
Home or Away against all teams in the other 2 conferences = 12 games

Top 2 from each conference qualify with the top 2 ranked teams getting a bye to the Semi and the other 4 having a Wildcard round.

Min of 22 games for each team, Max of 25 games for each team.
 
mdaclarke said:
This could be a lifeline to the Cheetahs

They would need an 18th team to even up the conferences. The logical one would be the Cheetahs

Then have

Conference 1
Jaguares, Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions, Sharks, Stormerrs

Conference 2.
Connacht, Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Edinburgh, Glasgow

Conference 3.
Blues, Dragons, Ospreys, Scarlets, Benetton, Zebre

Home and Away against each team in conference = 10 games
Home or Away against all teams in the other 2 conferences = 12 games

Top 2 from each conference qualify with the top 2 ranked teams getting a bye to the Semi and the other 4 having a Wildcard round.

Min of 22 games for each team, Max of 25 games for each team.
Click to expand...
Definitely need 18 teams rather than 17.
 
Redman7 said:
Argentina approach Pro14 over Jaguares potentially joining competition, but from Spain https://the42.ie/5360685

Don't think this is a good idea. They would make the league more competitive like the South Africans. But seems like a bad idea to me to add another country, especially as they wont be based in their own country. They will have no natural rivals in the league. Makes some sense to help TV ratings during these times but can't see it working after the pandemic. What would be their identity? Why would Spaniards go to watch a team made up off and controlled by foreigners? Unless there is a large argentine community in Spain that I'm unaware of
Click to expand...

If there is a country where this experiment with Jaguares could work, it would be definitely be Spain.

Some figures in this regard, as of January 1, 2020, around 90 thousand people with Argentine nationality are registered in the country. And I would say that you have to add at least the same amount, being conservatives, who are of Argentine origin and with dual nationality due to family ancestry. In addition they are very implicated into Spanish rugby at all levels, players, managers, clubs, national federation...

My doubts are more in the location of Bilbao. Regarding figures, Barcelona, Madrid, Mallorca or Valencia make more sense. Especially Barcelona, with the largest number of Argentines, a cosmopolitan city with a very good communication network, stadiums of multiple sizes and a lot of experience in hosting international sports and rugby events (Olympic Games, Top14 final 2016)

On the other hand Bilbao is in Basque Country, the region with more rugby influence, alongside Valladolid. And they got experience with rugby events as well, EPCR Bilbao finals in 2018, International Test Matches as Tonga v USA in 2016 and USA v Samoa in 2018... Probaly same promoters are behind.

About TV ratings, in my POV it will be linked with the time diference, currently +4 hours CET vs Buenos Aires time. Don't expect too much from Spanish broadcasters.

The Alpha Bro said:
The biggest sports stars Spain has ever had are Portuguese and Argentinian.
Click to expand...

To specify and with good vibes, the biggest foreign sports stars that Spain has had. Add Brazilians to the list.

Not many but there are some Spanish sports stars... Rafael Nadal, Fernando Alonso, Gasol brothers, Tour de France winners, MotoGP world champions... ;)
 
vivaldi said:
If there is a country where this experiment with Jaguares could work, it would be definitely be Spain.

Some figures in this regard, as of January 1, 2020, around 90 thousand people with Argentine nationality are registered in the country. And I would say that you have to add at least the same amount, being conservatives, who are of Argentine origin and with dual nationality due to family ancestry. In addition they are very implicated into Spanish rugby at all levels, players, managers, clubs, national federation...

My doubts are more in the location of Bilbao. Regarding figures, Barcelona, Madrid, Mallorca or Valencia make more sense. Especially Barcelona, with the largest number of Argentines, a cosmopolitan city with a very good communication network, stadiums of multiple sizes and a lot of experience in hosting international sports and rugby events (Olympic Games, Top14 final 2016)

On the other hand Bilbao is in Basque Country, the region with more rugby influence, alongside Valladolid. And they got experience with rugby events as well, EPCR Bilbao finals in 2018, International Test Matches as Tonga v USA in 2016 and USA v Samoa in 2018... Probaly same promoters are behind.

About TV ratings, in my POV it will be linked with the time diference, currently +4 hours CET vs Buenos Aires time. Don't expect too much from Spanish broadcasters.



To specify and with good vibes, the biggest foreign sports stars that Spain has had. Add Brazilians to the list.

Not many but there are some Spanish sports stars... Rafael Nadal, Fernando Alonso, Gasol brothers, Tour de France winners, MotoGP world champions... ;)
Click to expand...
It was less of an insult to Spain's sporting achievements and more that they get out to support lads not from around there, wouldn't class any of the named Spaniards along with the two GOATs now!

Nice post, v informative, I'd hope that if the base was Bilbao, a few games would be played in Barcelona at least. My favourite European city, would love to see some rugby there.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
It was less of an insult to Spain's sporting achievements and more that they get out to support lads not from around there, wouldn't class any of the named Spaniards along with the two GOATs now!
Click to expand...
Hard to compare with those 2 beasts! And you're talking about football, here it's religion.

The Alpha Bro said:
Nice post, v informative, I'd hope that if the base was Bilbao, a few games would be played in Barcelona at least. My favourite European city, would love to see some rugby there.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Being selfish I'd prefer Madrid but my advise for Jaguares would be to choose not a very big venue, between 10-15k attendance enough. Rugby is far from being a mass sport here, even for a top competition as it would be the case. Same advise for an utopic Spanish franchise...
 
vivaldi said:
If there is a country where this experiment with Jaguares could work, it would be definitely be Spain.

Some figures in this regard, as of January 1, 2020, around 90 thousand people with Argentine nationality are registered in the country. And I would say that you have to add at least the same amount, being conservatives, who are of Argentine origin and with dual nationality due to family ancestry. In addition they are very implicated into Spanish rugby at all levels, players, managers, clubs, national federation...

My doubts are more in the location of Bilbao. Regarding figures, Barcelona, Madrid, Mallorca or Valencia make more sense. Especially Barcelona, with the largest number of Argentines, a cosmopolitan city with a very good communication network, stadiums of multiple sizes and a lot of experience in hosting international sports and rugby events (Olympic Games, Top14 final 2016)

On the other hand Bilbao is in Basque Country, the region with more rugby influence, alongside Valladolid. And they got experience with rugby events as well, EPCR Bilbao finals in 2018, International Test Matches as Tonga v USA in 2016 and USA v Samoa in 2018... Probaly same promoters are behind.

About TV ratings, in my POV it will be linked with the time diference, currently +4 hours CET vs Buenos Aires time. Don't expect too much from Spanish broadcasters.



To specify and with good vibes, the biggest foreign sports stars that Spain has had. Add Brazilians to the list.

Not many but there are some Spanish sports stars... Rafael Nadal, Fernando Alonso, Gasol brothers, Tour de France winners, MotoGP world champions... ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Definitely make sense for the Jaguares to go to Spain if anywhere. And could be great to have professional rugby in Spain. But if its to be long term I think they'll have to do something to bring the local community along with them, like integrating spannish players/coaches etc.
 
Redman7 said:
Thanks for the info. Definitely make sense for the Jaguares to go to Spain if anywhere. And could be great to have professional rugby in Spain. But if its to be long term I think they'll have to do something to bring the local community along with them, like integrating spannish players/coaches etc.
Click to expand...
thats where things might start to struggle, the Jags have only just in the last couple of years become competitive and thats been focusing on a good for Argentinian rugby platform...if they start bringing through Spanish players and coaches thats not exactly good for Argentinian rugby

If Spain was to host, i realise never going to happy, maybe they take the opportunity for a new Spanish franchise?
 
big ginger 8 said:
Argentina approach Pro14 over Jaguares potentially joining competition, but from Spain https://the42.ie/5360685
Click to expand...
It is an attempt by Argentina, but I think they should play in Buenos Aires anyway, because the South African franchises play in their country, that would not be fair to the Argentines .... And they should go out there South African franchises, as the championship is very full of average teams.
 
Redman7 said:
Thanks for the info. Definitely make sense for the Jaguares to go to Spain if anywhere. And could be great to have professional rugby in Spain. But if its to be long term I think they'll have to do something to bring the local community along with them, like integrating spannish players/coaches etc.
Click to expand...
I see this in another way. It would be absolutely an Argentine project and would continue to develop its rugby and Jaguares brand. I don't see it as different from what it was in Super Rugby. The professional platform of the best players and the base of the national team. If this or something similar goes any further, I don't think any local coach or player would be involved other than specific agreements for training or use of the facilities. There could be an agreement with a local team so that less used players could keep up the pace of competition. But beyond this I do not see it feasible

Kiwiwomble said:
thats where things might start to struggle, the Jags have only just in the last couple of years become competitive and thats been focusing on a good for Argentinian rugby platform...if they start bringing through Spanish players and coaches thats not exactly good for Argentinian rugby

If Spain was to host, i realise never going to happy, maybe they take the opportunity for a new Spanish franchise?
Click to expand...
We are far from professional rugby here and even further from Pro14 level. First we have to develop our national team. Qualify for RWC 2023 and establish ourselves at that level on a regular basis. The last World Cup we played was in 1999. This would help us attract more sponsors, TV and public subsidies and try to follow one of the recently growth models, Italy, Georgia or Argentina/Uruguay.
 
vivaldi said:
I see this in another way. It would be absolutely an Argentine project and would continue to develop its rugby and Jaguares brand. I don't see it as different from what it was in Super Rugby. The professional platform of the best players and the base of the national team. If this or something similar goes any further, I don't think any local coach or player would be involved other than specific agreements for training or use of the facilities. There could be an agreement with a local team so that less used players could keep up the pace of competition. But beyond this I do not see it feasible


We are far from professional rugby here and even further from Pro14 level. First we have to develop our national team. Qualify for RWC 2023 and establish ourselves at that level on a regular basis. The last World Cup we played was in 1999. This would help us attract more sponsors, TV and public subsidies and try to follow one of the recently growth models, Italy, Georgia or Argentina/Uruguay.
Click to expand...
i was thinking more the sign a whole lot of old foreign pros to start with to raise profile more than a fully spanish team to start with and then leverage that to build on
 
Redman7 said:
Argentina approach Pro14 over Jaguares potentially joining competition, but from Spain https://the42.ie/5360685

Don't think this is a good idea. They would make the league more competitive like the South Africans. But seems like a bad idea to me to add another country, especially as they wont be based in their own country. They will have no natural rivals in the league. Makes some sense to help TV ratings during these times but can't see it working after the pandemic. What would be their identity? Why would Spaniards go to watch a team made up off and controlled by foreigners? Unless there is a large argentine community in Spain that I'm unaware of.
Click to expand...
Neither do I.
 
Last edited:
mdaclarke said:
This could be a lifeline to the Cheetahs

They would need an 18th team to even up the conferences. The logical one would be the Cheetahs

Then have

Conference 1
Jaguares, Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions, Sharks, Stormerrs

Conference 2.
Connacht, Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Edinburgh, Glasgow

Conference 3.
Blues, Dragons, Ospreys, Scarlets, Benetton, Zebre

Home and Away against each team in conference = 10 games
Home or Away against all teams in the other 2 conferences = 12 games

Top 2 from each conference qualify with the top 2 ranked teams getting a bye to the Semi and the other 4 having a Wildcard round.

Min of 22 games for each team, Max of 25 games for each team.
Click to expand...
Good post. If it brings back the Cheetahs then I'm all for it. But only if that's the case.
 
Last edited:

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