Top 14 Day 7

[Big Ewis]

really a shame he's leaving so soon, has really shone in Toulon this year indeed.

 

[gaston le gaff]

obviously. I understand Top 14 refs and authorities were given instructions to lock it up even more this season, but what is this the 5th we've seen already ? A red is basically game over. Flynn does walk on Iguiniz's articulation area on his outside ankle, and that's awful and surely merits sanction, but I'd rather the federation finds a more "extra-curricular" way of punishing those fkng idiots, a way that is more individual and therefor more fair and punishes the collective less or at least on the day. For e.g. ban a player for a few matches, team pays the price but not in a direct fashion. Plus financial sanctions against the player, and perhaps club too.

But (in theory) if you get a red at home in the Top 14 at the start of the game, that's just a catastrophe (e.g. Brive last week). Home games NEED to be won. Some guy on your team does one stupid play, and your season is in jeopardy. It's not fair.

Did you not know nothing is fair, but if this carries on there will be less and less idiots doing stupid things, if you do that at Montpellier you will spend at least 2/3 weeks dans le Frigo.......... they will learn the hard way and pay the price for it.

 

[Tony Manx]

Did you not know nothing is fair, but if this carries on there will be less and less idiots doing stupid things, if you do that at Montpellier you will spend at least 2/3 weeks dans le Frigo.......... they will learn the hard way and pay the price for it.

Good Lord, rugby players learning how to play within the rules.....whatever next, saying excuse me as they enter rucks from the wrong side?!!!

 

[Gavin]

Do you think the environment of Toulon really helps players? Just thinking of the older ones who appear to be ready to retire.

 

[gaston le gaff]

If you are talking about the sun on the old bones of some of the older players certainly yes!!!!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

Did you not know nothing is fair, but if this carries on there will be less and less idiots doing stupid things, if you do that at Montpellier you will spend at least 2/3 weeks dans le Frigo.......... they will learn the hard way and pay the price for it.

yeah, that's true. But talk about the hard way, that's HARD, losing your team the game for certain...and I mean what a horrible situation if you're the other 14 guys, you have to go out and spend every ounce of energy while being almost guaranteed to lose the game anyways...it's horrible. It's not like a World Cup match where if you're down to 14, it's a valiant cause to still stay in the game like Wales against France for e.g. If anything it can infuse a shiitload of solidarity into a group. But here, it's just a regular season game...and you can't just take 100 points, you have to play the game...awful, awful position.

 

[Big Ewis]

Most of the smaller clubs are down indeed and the bigger clubs have really separated themselves clearcut already. Even a Racing or a Montypellier are 4-3 so far...huge start for Stade Frimousse, but only +1 on the meter. Clermont picked up where they left off last year, Vern Cotter who ?, and already 3 wins on the road. Only 3 tries conceded so far heading into Day 8. Enormous.
Grenoble the positive surprise, Castres the very negative surprise. Toulouse predictable, surely they'll be a lot closer to the Top 6 in a few weeks but very well may not make it within when the bell tolls in June...how the league has changed in so little time, just 2012 they were lifting yet another Brennus. Just 2012...

Right now, this very moment in time, it seems impossible to see anyone else but Clermont and Toulon in the final. Of course the season is long, still 20 Days to go. Still plenty of time for Montypellier to cough out of that Top 6.......

 

[gaston le gaff]

This is a message which involves a massive and personal plea from the heart..........

Please!!! Please!!! Please!!!! even pretty Please!!!!, B. E. do not support Montypellier ever again, you started the season with Castres now 14th then you switched to Toulouse now 13th, please support who you wish but not Montypellier, spare them the indignation of falling down the Championship if you dedicate your alliance or even allegience towards us .
You have obviously been cursed with devil powers of relegation "You support they lose" Will this not make the Pro D2 more attractive, 1st Biarritz the Perpignan to be followed by Castres and Touloooooose, i can see B E. being banned from every TOP 14 stadium

 

[Big Ewis]

no issues gastoni, won't need to use my mystical destructive powers for Montypol to be unsuccessful ! Haven't done anything yet and they're already looking at playing "maintien" !
And don't forget I was always a Castres fan last year, love the group, and officially supported them against Montypellerionni in an unlikely win for them in the playoffs. That led to the whole 'Castres-ators' concept remember ? Oh and since on the topic, I have a new one for you (albeit, a little late as it doesn't apply when they're DEAD last !): what are you gastoni, Clastres-ophobic ? *drum roll*

And seriously though, one could say it's just a bad start to the season some weeks ago but right now it's just shameful for Toulouse and a disaster for Castres. Really wish both lots and lots of success, QUICK.

 

[Peat]

obviously. I understand Top 14 refs and authorities were given instructions to lock it up even more this season, but what is this the 5th we've seen already ? A red is basically game over. Flynn does walk on Iguiniz's articulation area on his outside ankle, and that's awful and surely merits sanction, but I'd rather the federation finds a more "extra-curricular" way of punishing those fkng idiots, a way that is more individual and therefor more fair and punishes the collective less or at least on the day. For e.g. ban a player for a few matches, team pays the price but not in a direct fashion. Plus financial sanctions against the player, and perhaps club too.

But (in theory) if you get a red at home in the Top 14 at the start of the game, that's just a catastrophe (e.g. Brive last week). Home games NEED to be won. Some guy on your team does one stupid play, and your season is in jeopardy. It's not fair.

I hate it. It's a pet peeve of mine, it's making games unwatchable to me (in combination with other factors). It wrecks the spectacle, some might say in time they'll learn, I say they'll just find a new thing to penalise. Throw in the fact that refs are blind and liable to miss cardable offences and what you get is a lottery.

I would change things so that a red card is the same as a yellow with the added that the side can't send the player back on. They have to sub on a different player when the ten minutes is up. It's still a punishment, but it no longer changes the game so much. Make suspension periods longer if you want to punish a player more. Whatever happens, don't punish fans.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm so saddened by Racing's loss (even with or maybe because of WP and the Bokke both getting BP wins) I havn't even been able to find the will to download the game. I see Goosen played at 15. I fear that was a mistake. He is a play maker. His major problem is his defense so why put him at 15? I don't know if I can bare to watch that..

 

[Big Ewis]

Check out how Delon Armitage talks to his captain Carl Hayman:



stormer: will watch the game soon, I'll let you in on a few things once I'm done.

Peat: oh I wasn't questioning the red card as a whole but what you're saying's viable too. Yeah I guess it can be reviewed and why not redefine the red card altogether. I was talking specifically about the Top 14, this 2015 season. They're clearly implementing a fkng strict as shiit set of instructions which were discussed during the off-season. We haven't seen so much red in so little time since...communist, russia ??...geez, I'm in hypoglycemia right now, need to eat, can't crack any good ones...

So in a hutshell, I'm saying: reds given too easily in Top 14 this year. Should def. be reviewed, playing at 14 is DISASTROUS not just any punishment. Reds should still be given but only for really big offenses, the rest punished severely also but not in a way that affects the entire team and de facto entire season (because every game is that important in this league).
Some guy in the air landing a bit awkwardly, headbutts punches...definitely should come down on giving reds.

 

[Big Ewis]

watched Grenoble (Free)Macing Retro. Typical from both sides: Grenoble subjected to a huge Racing pack (Gérondeau and the young Metz adding good minutes off the bench), huge scrum both starters and replacement props...while Grenoble played their classic, sound style. Move the ball well, stay patient, and Jonathan Wisnewski who I'm sooo glad left Racing as he is now playing full matches as he deserves and if it wasn't for all this time spent bench-warming up North in Paris, I say an absolute candidate for the France no.10 jersey. No doubt. He's the extra push Grenoble needed, and the young kiwi no.8 Rory Grice, a superb loose forward.

stormer: Goosen may be a better fit at 15, at least in the Top 14, than a 10. Dambielle is a fine fit, but not surprisingly Racing are suffering from Sexton's absence. About Goosen: still very naive and fresh, I'm quite intrigued by how he actually got some caps for the Springboks. On the good side, he slotted in three 50m kicks, very impressive, and generally has excellent accuracy and power from that right boot. He looked good picking up the ball and all things last line of defense related.
On the bad, he's not good with putting brain and right boot together during the game. Just because he's so powerful it seems, he'll boorishly kick it super far and give the opposing player an easy kick-for-touch from inside his 22. Aimless kicks. Naive on defense. Picked up the silliest yellow. And very little creativity when he's got the ball, that I speak from that other game against Clermont earlier.

I'm not sure what he is really: if he's a 15, he's a solid option at fullback (minus countering). If he's a 10, he's got a lot to work on. The only certainties are he's quite big, has a monstrous boot, excellent and reliable aiming for the T, and seems to have some fullback qualities to him. Not sure about 10, although still very young.

P.S.: gastouins, everything okay out there with the floods ???...

 

[gaston le gaff]

P.S.: gastouins, everything okay out there with the floods ???...

All around big problems, but we are on a big slope and the water comes in one end and out the other through our vines, bit of damage on the way through but nothing serious; that half a day in the garden will not cure but thanks for asking.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

watched Grenoble (Free)Macing Retro. Typical from both sides: Grenoble subjected to a huge Racing pack (Gérondeau and the young Metz adding good minutes off the bench), huge scrum both starters and replacement props...while Grenoble played their classic, sound style. Move the ball well, stay patient, and Jonathan Wisnewski who I'm sooo glad left Racing as he is now playing full matches as he deserves and if it wasn't for all this time spent bench-warming up North in Paris, I say an absolute candidate for the France no.10 jersey. No doubt. He's the extra push Grenoble needed, and the young kiwi no.8 Rory Grice, a superb loose forward.

stormer: Goosen may be a better fit at 15, at least in the Top 14, than a 10. Dambielle is a fine fit, but not surprisingly Racing are suffering from Sexton's absence. About Goosen: still very naive and fresh, I'm quite intrigued by how he actually got some caps for the Springboks. On the good side, he slotted in three 50m kicks, very impressive, and generally has excellent accuracy and power from that right boot. He looked good picking up the ball and all things last line of defense related.
On the bad, he's not good with putting brain and right boot together during the game. Just because he's so powerful it seems, he'll boorishly kick it super far and give the opposing player an easy kick-for-touch from inside his 22. Aimless kicks. Naive on defense. Picked up the silliest yellow. And very little creativity when he's got the ball, that I speak from that other game against Clermont earlier.

I'm not sure what he is really: if he's a 15, he's a solid option at fullback (minus countering). If he's a 10, he's got a lot to work on. The only certainties are he's quite big, has a monstrous boot, excellent and reliable aiming for the T, and seems to have some fullback qualities to him. Not sure about 10, although still very young.

P.S.: gastouins, everything okay out there with the floods ???...

Very interesting reading, Big E; on Goosen I mean. I might download the game and watch knowing we'll lose if only to have a look at how you describe Goosen. I mean some of what you are saying sounds like classic Goosen; big boot, the bit about being naive on the length of kicks from fullback I can fully understand seeing as he only has had a handful (literally) of games in that position and is quite young as you say.

The parts that confuse me; you say he is solid enough in defense were his defense was his biggest issue for me at 10 and you also call him quite big. I'll have to see, maybe he has bulked up a bit since leaving SA. What confuses me the most is you say he shows little creativity and countering ability which I can only imagine comes from one or a combination of 1) a lack in confidence 2) that he has slipped HUGELY since that terrible run of 3 big injuries and no rugby for 2 years 3) not yet sure of his role in the team, maybe some restraints have been placed on him by the coaching staff? 4) if he has bulked up maybe he has lost some of that searing pace he showed in SA a few years ago.

Really, what made him dangerous was his pace and ability to hit gaps and his delayed pass ala Cooper. In fact he was called the Boere Cooper over here; same poor defense and play-making ability though he lacked Cooper's offloads he had a more accurate boot. It has to be mentioned though that he was playing at altitude and on some of the hardest surfaces you'll find in rugby; getting tackled to the ground in Bloemfontein is akin to hitting a concrete slab, no jokes. Maybe the softer surface under foot takes away from the effectiveness of his footwork which was purely speed based rather than any sort of elusiveness or power.

 

[Tony Manx]

P.S.: gastouins, everything okay out there with the floods ???...

All around big problems, but we are on a big slope and the water comes in one end and out the other through our vines, bit of damage on the way through but nothing serious; that half a day in the garden will not cure but thanks for asking.

You should move to the arid South West!!!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

You should move to the arid South West!!!!

<what and="" support="" some="" second="" rate="" pro="" d2="" team="" no="" thank="" you="" montpellier="" cancelled="" the="" press="" training="" this="" morning="" i="" was="" half="" way="" there="" when="" got="" call.="" 300mm="" of="" rain="" yesterday="" in="" montpol,="" lez="" virdoule="" both="" broke="" their="" banks="" whole="" area="" claimed="" castostrophe="" naturel="" by="" gov="" lunchtime,="" perhaps="" as="" well="" we="" are="" at="" bayonne="" o="" sat.="" 100's="" cars="" underwater,="" expensive="" for="" mant="" people.="" weather="" here="" is="" madness="" 40+°="" summer="" then="" floods="" galore="" autumn="" !!!<="" html="">massive problems, 4,000 people spent the night in emergency halls etc airport closed tram and railway the same over 1,000 cars under water, we even had training cancelled this morning and i was only half way there so turn around and come home, good job we are at Bayonnne on Sat. Catastrophe naturel declared by the gov at lunchtime</what>

 

[Tony Manx]

<what and="" support="" some="" second="" rate="" pro="" d2="" team="" no="" thank="" you="" montpellier="" cancelled="" the="" press="" training="" this="" morning="" i="" was="" half="" way="" there="" when="" got="" call.="" 300mm="" of="" rain="" yesterday="" in="" montpol,="" lez="" virdoule="" both="" broke="" their="" banks="" whole="" area="" claimed="" castostrophe="" naturel="" by="" gov="" lunchtime,="" perhaps="" as="" well="" we="" are="" at="" bayonne="" o="" sat.="" 100's="" cars="" underwater,="" expensive="" for="" mant="" people.="" weather="" here="" is="" madness="" 40+°="" summer="" then="" floods="" galore="" autumn="" !!!<="" html="">massive problems, 4,000 people spent the night in emergency halls etc airport closed tram and railway the same over 1,000 cars under water, we even had training cancelled this morning and i was only half way there so turn around and come home, good job we are at Bayonnne on Sat. Catastrophe naturel declared by the gov at lunchtime</what>

Not good....we were bad in June but not that bad. Would like to think that, unlike with us, there were no casualties?

 

[gaston le gaff]

Not good....we were bad in June but not that bad. Would like to think that, unlike with us, there were no casualties?

if there was anything to take from this whole disaster is that there was no loss of lives which under the circumstances is brilliant but people will be paying for the material damage for many years to come, unfortunelty insurance never covers evrything, when i had the pubs i was flooded back in the UK and you never get everything back puls a massive loss in revenue for many people.

 

[Big Ewis]

stormer: no I didn't say solid defensively, I said "naive on defense". It's clearly an issue to his game. I said he was good at 15 for last line of defense oriented things, like picking up the ball quickly under pressure, getting rid of the ball and pushing it way back into opposite territory...there's a point where he kicks the ball into touch under tremendous pressure from the attackers rushing in, in an odd situation in his 22. Dealt with it with good security. He's got good hands, good timing and dexterity. Accuracy seems to generally be a big part of his game.
Had no idea he was a Cooper-like guy. Dambielle seems a better pick easily at 10 for Racing atm based on seeing both play that position. Like I said, he's very young, and Top 14 is new to him also.