• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Top 14 2014/15 Season

well best of luck to Montypellier. The Top 14 is getting tougher and tougher literally every single year, by large noticeable chunks. This year in particular will be very interesting.
Clermont are reinforced, Toulon got some upgrades themselves despite Wilko's departure, Montypellier and Toulouse still right in the mix near the top, Castres the eternally underestimated club, Racing and Stade Frugalité are right there and can surprise everyone at any given time. Oyonnax are no joke, the LOU is back and mark an exciting return to the Top 14. Bordeaux looks fierce, Brive are no joke...and the rest aren't exactly useless either.
 
does this mean that they are all too good to be relegated or will it be a question of the worst of the best go down, but who will it be, several come to mind but naming the correct 2 could be a heavy task at this time of year.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
hah well the thing that keeps some of the Top 14 aura in check is the fact that it isn't completely isolated from the rest of the world. Thankfully, for whatever it's worth and wtvr objective truth we can really take out of it, our teams do play other clubs in two European competitions every year. If that didn't happen, I admit I would overrate our Top 14 sides a bit because of just how loaded they are and how competitive the Top 14 has become in such a short period of time, throughout, like, way down to the 12th or 13th team.
I have no clue what the two new teams will be like in a Top 14 environment, I'm guessing the LOU has a few "arguments" to display to the rest this year. But seriously, I haven't even mentioned Grenoble in my previous message because I feel they just don't have the star-personnel on paper compared to the rest of those clubs, and Grenoble are a team that's been playing old school, quality Rugby the past 2 years and has held its own.

It's obvious what's going to happen to the Top 14 btw. More and more stars, more foreigners despite the JIFF French players quota 55%, they'll just bench all the French youngsters and "train" them quietly and have their 45% foreigners start. No time to waste, gotta stay competitive, can't lose a spot in the Top 14 in France, look at mythical clubs Biarritz or Perpignan they went down in just a year's undoing and have lost their big names already. Gotta keep up with the ultimate current reference, Toulon. Gotta do what all teams at the top are doing: get your Fijian wingers, your SANZAR centers, your brutal Saffa forwards, a 120kg Samoan in the loosies somewhere and probably a foreign 10 to lead the attack and kick your points in. No time to waste, and lots of money to spend. Quickly, quickly.
To think not even Stade Francmaçon got a spot in the last 6 playoffs last year and Toulouse only BARELY made it...scary stuff.
 
I personally think that we are slowly going back to the good old days as far as results are concerned it will be harder and harder to win away from home and teams will start to label the teams where they think possible points may come and the others the more difficult away games will probably be a mixture of 1st and 2nd string components, but looking at some of the squads the 2nd stringers would make any normal team. When you think Gorgodze will problably play 15/20 games a season in the championship and Europe if he has no injuries and he will not be the only one. I also think with the TOP 14 losing BO and USAP who had the finances to buy in big players had they survived, there are 4/5 teams Lyon, Oyonnax, La Rochelle, Brive and maybe Grenoble who will find the going tough this season and the 2 teams to go down will come from these 5 i think.The season is long and you see after Christmas and Jan where and how these teams are doing as injuries, burn out as these squads are not deep enough with quality, this is when the crunch starts to come, in the first 10 games or so everybody is travelling at a 100mph, and the results can be surprising.There is one thing for sure if you lose at home you are in trouble!!!!!
 
indeed, clearly the Top 14 has become for many reasons stated in the past a home-oriented league. And yes, you mention the depth of teams, clubs now not only need one hell of a XV but they also need guys off the bench who can offer just about the same punch and have a huge effect on the game.
Toulon won arguably because of their depth, not necessarily the Top 14 final against Castres specifically, but their whole season, on both competitions/fronts. They even said it themselves, can't remember who, probably Laporte: "last year we fell short in the Top 14 despite making the final because we fell victim to just way too long a season competing hard for both ***les. This year, we rotate our guys much better and have installed the depth we need to make sure we keep fresh and competitive the way we should".
Again, other clubs will look to follow in those footsteps. Racing are probably the classic example, more so than Toulon in fact, of the team that just doesn't even care about playing time and coherence - they'll just buy a shiit-ton of guys at each position just to 'make sure'.
A full season (counting both fronts) for Top 14 clubs is just literally IMPOSSIBLE now with just a good xv and some okay reserves, you need big names throughout the roster. You look at clubs like Montypellier, Paris or Castres who are top drawer acts just can't play on both fronts with consistency. It's just too much.
Toulon have a culture of utter excellence, obviously helped a whole lot by the big bucks, not just to write big names on the roster sheet, but also other stuff like the medics, the cryo-therapy stuff, etc...etc...how many teams can hang with that ? - this isn't Hollywood.

Surely the H Cup is just a step too much, an excess dimension to Top 14 teams. English clubs (bar Saracens with the huge exception) just aren't good enough to progress far in that competition, Irish clubs are fresh as hell and very good anyways - our clubs come into this thing like a big thorn in their spine and just cannot seriously intend to compete in both French AND European championships in a single year.
Ideally, the H Cup would be played every 2 years or something, with all local competition coming to a halt to make way for it.

I don't mean to cowardly put it all on fatigue and calendar, but Toulouse and Clermont both got SMASHED in the H Cup, and they both failed quite miserably AT HOME in the Top 14 campaign. By the time they get humiliated on the European scene, they get back on time to the local competition to get ousted at home. By aiming at two targets, you hit neither the one, nor the other. Too much happening at the same time, and at the highest level. I really think this plays a role for our clubs. The Top 14 is just too much, far too weighty, and leaves absolutely no room for test match Rugby first of all, but the H Cup seems quite excessive itself.
 
After last seasons experiences of Toulouse, Clermont, and even Montypellier, i think that the top teams of the TOP 14 can play on both fronts but they will have to manage their season better than they did the last one, not quite in the same vein as the Irish (will get some stick for that) but they have to do something similar, this is why i think away games will be targeted especially around ECC time and players will be used more intelligently. There is no doubt Toulon will want 3 in a row as no one has every done that and the fact that this is a entirely new comp. even more so, the motivation will be higher than previous seasons, and the fact is you have to satisfy the players who of course are getting the money but they also have a big appetite for silverware, there are also a few players in Toulon who will not be there next season and to leave with 3 H and EC cups will be a difficult feat to beat. So i really can not see another non French team winning this (more stick) and now the Rabo have to qualify but somehow i dont think that will be a problem for the 3 main Irish teams ( no disrepect Connaught) its just who will be with them and that could be a lottery, this is where squad reinforement will show and who is doing the right signings and forming the best squads.
The TOP 14 will always be the main target of every club bar maybe the newly promoted who just wanrt to survive, Toulon who have the strengh and depth to do another double, but with all the finances that the clubs have in their top pockets its hard to imagine why they will not suceed and once again i rightly predict that a French side will win the TOP 14, and possibly the new ECC !!!!!!!!!!!! I also wish the season would start as i am tired of reading TRF out of season drivel about everything and nothing. sorry guys go backl and read it half way throught he coming season and maybe ask yourselves what the sh** was that all about, BOREDOM MAYBE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
After last seasons experiences of Toulouse, Clermont, and even Montypellier, i think that the top teams of the TOP 14 can play on both fronts but they will have to manage their season better than they did the last one, not quite in the same vein as the Irish (will get some stick for that) but they have to do something similar, this is why i think away games will be targeted especially around ECC time and players will be used more intelligently. There is no doubt Toulon will want 3 in a row as no one has every done that and the fact that this is a entirely new comp. even more so, the motivation will be higher than previous seasons, and the fact is you have to satisfy the players who of course are getting the money but they also have a big appetite for silverware, there are also a few players in Toulon who will not be there next season and to leave with 3 H and EC cups will be a difficult feat to beat. So i really can not see another non French team winning this (more stick) and now the Rabo have to qualify but somehow i dont think that will be a problem for the 3 main Irish teams ( no disrepect Connaught) its just who will be with them and that could be a lottery, this is where squad reinforement will show and who is doing the right signings and forming the best squads.
The TOP 14 will always be the main target of every club bar maybe the newly promoted who just wanrt to survive, Toulon who have the strengh and depth to do another double, but with all the finances that the clubs have in their top pockets its hard to imagine why they will not suceed and once again i rightly predict that a French side will win the TOP 14, and possibly the new ECC !!!!!!!!!!!! I also wish the season would start as i am tired of reading TRF out of season drivel about everything and nothing. sorry guys go backl and read it half way throught he coming season and maybe ask yourselves what the sh** was that all about, BOREDOM MAYBE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

indeeeed !! :D boredom and, well, other things too...this is the only thread I'm actually doin' some Rugby talk ! And i try a little on the SR too these days (desperate times !!)..

I was asking myself this question the other day: will Toulon actually be better with Giteau at 10 than with Wilko there considering the following things: 'Wilko' will be divided in two entities now, Giteau's playmaking and tempo-setting and Halfpenny's boot points. Halfpenny's as good as anyone in the world atm kicking in points so that's done, but then Giteau I think will bring more speed and more Wallaby-type action to his backline. Wilko was good at this, but Giteau is just a little wizard with the ball and sets up teammates beautifully. And he's always a tackle-breaking threat too.
I'm thinking Toulon might actually be better this way. It's just a thought though, not betting on anything just yet...
 
will have to agree Wilco had a magic pass but rarely did he cross the gain line he usually passed or kicked before, Giteau is anothjer piece of magic he will try and break the attack at the gain line and if you have 5 bellies waiting for the ball or a quick off load the fullbacks of the TOP 14 could become messy and be inflicted with severe pain!!!! Toulon are obviously the team to beat again this season, but there will be others and as i said earlier that winning away from home will be indeed "quelque choses extraodinaire" and will not happen that often. Wilco's kicking will be missed even if 2 penneth is good but under pressure Wilco was excellent and his field kicking unbelievable, no one could get near him, the other thing they may miss is Wilco's reading of the game he always well nearly always made the right choices even under pressure and that where others often fail miserably, 2 Penneth will also found out the difference between Rabo and the TOP 14 many moons apart and he will need time, this is nothing like he has seen before, week in week out, Sexton, Roberts all took time even Phillips was not great the first seaso and i still don't rate him!!!!It will be a learning curve but Toulon have so mant great players if one does not show they can soon find one that does, and Armitage will be hard to move from 15............but i'm sure we will not be bored in France with our Championship!!!!!!
 
definitely. Dunno why I left that out of my post...clearly, Wilko's "pressure makes diamonds" ability and time and time and time again confirmation is something that leaves Toulon along with him. But Giteau is no wimp and HP isn't either, I'm sure they'll be fine.

No, I say this without bias and without arrogance, but I really really feel the Top 14 season this year is going to be fuccking awesome. Just the right amount of moves during the off-season, new faces, a couple of new clubs including a very anticipated one. Classy backlines throughout the country, and interesting stakes too. Some clubs to show their true quality they haven't necessarily so far (Bordeaux, Racing...), some to prove they still belong (Toulouse, Clermont), Montypellier and Castres to confirm they're top top and will surely be hungrier even this year, and then a new look Toulon who'll be attempting something unique.

I'm particularly intrigued by Fall to MP, Guitoune in Bordeaux, Giteau at 10 for Toulon, Floody in Toulouse and how they use McAllister, and I really will be keeping a close eye on French props around the league. What I saw in Australia last June was close to....well in fact, it was completely DRAMATIC. I want to see if Mas is completely out for good, and if Domingo can salvage a semblance of his past form !...that was scary in Aus......
 
Mas should never have gone to Australia, he was knackered before they went but what does PSA know about player management nothing.!!! there were certain players who should have been left out of that squad and given the summer off but that was not to be. Mas will be fine for this season and i do not see any problems, the problem is it is very difficult to refuse a cap when you are selected , more or less says thankyou but no thankyou, and your International career comes to an abrupt end. They all left for Altitude training yesterday( Montypelllier that is) for Tignes till next weekend so i will see them all next week after they are ready to start the real nitty gritty turmoil of the new season and the 1st pre season match against Sarries on the 25th July.
Someone will eventually realise that if the TOP 14 is going to stay at this intense level, player management is going to have to be re evaluated especially the guys who are also representing their countries whether its France or any other countries as player burn out will happen we have already seen it this summer its not "a bridge to far" but a "tour too far"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
I hear you gaston. Nicolas Mas clearly never should've gone. This marks a bit of a landmark in Rugby history: the Top 14 is inflating, and summer tours i.e. end-of-season-for-NH-nations tours are looking one "tour too much" indeed, clearly. Nicolas Mas didn't even feature in Test 3, as I've said it multiple times, because of a (literally translated) "generalized fatigue" state. And Mas isn't even your old school fat prop with a huge belly, he's all muscle, but his "old age" makes him an easy prey for these crazy new calendar and pace. Guys have officially started to break down. He looked absolutely USELESS in most aspects of the game. Unrecognizable.

He went, get this, from starter - to bench player - to not featuring at all, gradually from Test 1 to Test 3.

People will call this exaggerated, and will say I'm being some cheap Top 14 prophet-wannabe, but I can seriously not see French players go on like that much longer, and even worse, it's getting worse and worse as illustrated by the one Nicolas Mas instance, as if examples were lacking. We WILL reach a point where test Rugby + club Rugby will not be possible simultaneously anymore.
And I'll bet it'll come to a "violent" point before it gets any better. It doesn't seem like measures will be taken to avoid that rupture point.
Ca va péter !!!!!
 
man, what a disaster...they just replayed AUS FRA Test 2 on tv...I'm reading Vincent Clerc's interview and while he's saying he really wants to be back in Bleus for the 2015 RWC, even he says "it was probably more intelligent to stay at home" lol talking about the June Aus tour. How fkng chaotic is that, a player saying it's "more intelligent" to stay home !!! Just imagine Dan Cole saying that about the England tour of NZ, or Sam Warburton saying this about the Wales tour of S.A. Impossible. I'm not dissing Clerc, the guy's obviously right, I'm just amazed by that sort of comment and how nobody even sees how worrying it is. Everybody's reading this like, "yeah okay, makes sense..." :p

He'll be just about 34 by RWC time...the last time he played for France, France was owning it. Way back in November 2012. He's never played under this new hopeless climate that started in 2013. He says he's back to 100%, and honestly, I just hope to see him rock hard in Toulouse is all...
 
here you go. So when I was saying we should scrap the June test back in May, I was not exaggerating.
No regret on his part for missing out on the tour. That says a lot about his mindset and his eagerness to play for the national team.

I can clearly remember the same Vincent Clerc stating on TV being asked about missing out on the start of the 2013 6N thru injury that he was "looking forward to the break".
Vincent needs to focus on his club career. He knows it. At 34 playing in blue is no longer a priority. Sure, he may be in the group for the WC but his priorities are being spelt out to him before start of the season.
 
Last edited:
Mas should never have gone to Australia, he was knackered before they went but what does PSA know about player management nothing.!!! there were certain players who should have been left out of that squad and given the summer off but that was not to be. Mas will be fine for this season and i do not see any problems, the problem is it is very difficult to refuse a cap when you are selected , more or less says thankyou but no thankyou, and your International career comes to an abrupt end. They all left for Altitude training yesterday( Montypelllier that is) for Tignes till next weekend so i will see them all next week after they are ready to start the real nitty gritty turmoil of the new season and the 1st pre season match against Sarries on the 25th July.
Someone will eventually realise that if the TOP 14 is going to stay at this intense level, player management is going to have to be re evaluated especially the guys who are also representing their countries whether its France or any other countries as player burn out will happen we have already seen it this summer its not "a bridge to far" but a "tour too far"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

remember this post early May? http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/32908-2014-Mid-Year-Tests-France/page3

i was saying Mas should never have been picked because he was shot physically.

everyone here knew many of the Toulouse players who ended up travelling on that tour were injured and/or out of form:
Nyanga (knee injury) Medard (ankle injury) Dusautoir (back from long tem injury not fit for test rugby) Picamoles (long term hip injury)

Funny, last May 02 I had posted Maestri Picamoles NYanga were big concerns to make the tour
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/32908-2014-Mid-Year-Tests-France/page2

Shortly after arriving in OZ, in an interview PSA said Picamoles & Medard were "out of form" due to injury concern
http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Picamoles-est-hors-de-forme/471408

All this **** is coming home to roost now.
 
well we'd be silly to start this debate all over again for the 10th time, but yes, the Top 14 season (as it is currently) AND H Cup AND test Rugby cannot all harmonize and fit a year's calendar.

And Vincent Clerc stated before playing for Toulouse his goal is to make the xv de France squad to play the World Cup, that's what the article was about in essence and that's the word he gave the interviewer. When he said he was happy about the break, he explained how awkward it was to be relieved so soon during the year, but he was just talking about the physical aspect of all this Rugby squeezed in so little time, in such a restless fashion. Nothing about the xv de France or FFR or anything like that.

Everybody knew Nicolas Mas was burned out before the tour and it looked like a surprise he came along to any fan who knows French Rugby, but I don't think anybody knew just how exhausted he was.

Again, mid-year test series have always existed, so a look at the Top 14 seems more judicious and logical to any neutral mind.
 
my point about Harinordoquy as not being a good recruit for the club is I think he is well past it. There are too many has-been players, ex-whatever players at the club now, including some of the new and existing ex AB players. This is one of the ailings we've suffered from.

We need more younger talented (and preferably homegrown) players. They have signed 3 very promising youngsters all 3 are below 20. They may get some playing time this season as the internationals won't be around for every game.

The reason the club is having to sign this has-been-ex-whatever is to counter the Elite 30 group and cover for the internationals that will be absent because of the WC. And this is how Harinordoquy fits in here, a fill-gap player.

This is what's driving Toulouse recruitment. But that is not a good recruitment logic for the club. Noves knows that and he is the first to admit it (not publicly).
 
Last edited:
well we'd be silly to start this debate all over again for the 10th time, but yes, the Top 14 season (as it is currently) AND H Cup AND test Rugby cannot all harmonize and fit a year's calendar.

And Vincent Clerc stated before playing for Toulouse his goal is to make the xv de France squad to play the World Cup, that's what the article was about in essence and that's the word he gave the interviewer. When he said he was happy about the break, he explained how awkward it was to be relieved so soon during the year, but he was just talking about the physical aspect of all this Rugby squeezed in so little time, in such a restless fashion. Nothing about the xv de France or FFR or anything like that.

Everybody knew Nicolas Mas was burned out before the tour and it looked like a surprise he came along to any fan who knows French Rugby, but I don't think anybody knew just how exhausted he was.

Again, mid-year test series have always existed, so a look at the Top 14 seems more judicious and logical to any neutral mind.

I was commenting on Mas and Clerc. This is what my post is about. I didn't see many posts on this forum and French forums stating that Mas was shot. I don't follow Montpellier yet looking at Mas end of season it seemed to me that he needed a break, not a tour to hell down under. That's just based on my own personal observations. Not what they said in the media.
 
remember this post early May? http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/32908-2014-Mid-Year-Tests-France/page3

i was saying Mas should never have been picked because he was shot physically.

everyone here knew many of the Toulouse players who ended up travelling on that tour were injured and/or out of form:
Nyanga (knee injury) Medard (ankle injury) Dusautoir (back from long tem injury not fit for test rugby) Picamoles (long term hip injury)

Funny, last May 02 I had posted Maestri Picamoles NYanga were big concerns to make the tour
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/32908-2014-Mid-Year-Tests-France/page2

Shortly after arriving in OZ, in an interview PSA said Picamoles & Medard were "out of form" due to injury concern
http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Picamoles-est-hors-de-forme/471408

All this **** is coming home to roost now.

how come Picamoles was picked for the tour and allowed play if PSA knew before the 1st test that he was out of form?! helloooo
 
Going back to Racings coaches it is never easy to get a bunch of different cultures and countries to play ball well together,

Laporte seems to have found the right recipe. How does a pequenaud from Blagnac get all these guys to gel together ;-)
Bernard has the X Factor
 
Last edited:
Top