..........and clubs are very good at telling injured players that they must have a pain killing injection and get out on the field too!!!
-
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Top 14 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Tony Manx
- Start date
..........and clubs are very good at telling injured players that they must have a pain killing injection and get out on the field too!!!
this is one of the reasons Bayonne I think will go down this season http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-1...lus-de-sponsor-maillot_sto4356579/story.shtml
and on a not very different note, budget estimates in millions of euros:
1. Toulouse (35,02)
2. Clermont (27,90)
3. Toulon (25,37)
4. Racing: (25,36)
5. Stade français (25,28)
6. Montpellier (22,54)
7. Lyon (21,03)
8. Grenoble (20,77)
9. Castres (19,04)
10. UBB (15,86)
11. Bayonne (15,76)
12. La Rochelle (14,47)
13. Oyonnax (14,28)
14. Brive (13,63)
Toulouse and Bayonne have lower budgets from last season
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-1...14-brive-le-plus-petit_sto4356076/story.shtml
1. Toulouse (35,02)
2. Clermont (27,90)
3. Toulon (25,37)
4. Racing: (25,36)
5. Stade français (25,28)
6. Montpellier (22,54)
7. Lyon (21,03)
8. Grenoble (20,77)
9. Castres (19,04)
10. UBB (15,86)
11. Bayonne (15,76)
12. La Rochelle (14,47)
13. Oyonnax (14,28)
14. Brive (13,63)
Toulouse and Bayonne have lower budgets from last season
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-1...14-brive-le-plus-petit_sto4356076/story.shtml
what did I say back in May about Picamoles having to nurse injury all thru last season and that he should NEVER have gone on that June tour
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/32908-2014-Mid-Year-Tests-France/page2
Look at the result now with him missing the start of the season and maybe more...
Last edited:
Big Ewis
Hall of Fame
hehe, that's just Rugby. You look at Toulouse's injured atm, they're actually almost all non-int'ls ironically for you:
McAlister's out, Galan too, Toby Flood is unsure, Dusautoir (due to both Top 14 and int'l), Ralepelle, Ferreira, Maestri.
It's just Rugby. Guys are going to get injured playing Rugby. You can be wearing blue, yellow, green, or tomatoes, you're playing pro Rugby, you'll get injured.
But I know you're going to say you were only talking about Picamoles' case going to AUS last summer. Granted, he shouldn't have gone. But at least they didn't put him back in a game 10min after a big concussion
On the topic, we're lucky to have someone of Chouly's quality for no.8 (who sure enough played a great series down under). Picamoles wasn't even vital.
So why was he taken.........................effing ridiculous?!!!!
hehe, that's just Rugby. You look at Toulouse's injured atm, they're actually almost all non-int'ls ironically for you:
McAlister's out, Galan too, Toby Flood is unsure, Dusautoir (due to both Top 14 and int'l), Ralepelle, Ferreira, Maestri.
It's just Rugby. Guys are going to get injured playing Rugby. You can be wearing blue, yellow, green, or tomatoes, you're playing pro Rugby, you'll get injured.
But I know you're going to say you were only talking about Picamoles' case going to AUS last summer. Granted, he shouldn't have gone. But at least they didn't put him back in a game 10min after a big concussion
On the topic, we're lucky to have someone of Chouly's quality for no.8 (who sure enough played a great series down under). Picamoles wasn't even vital.
no it's not rugby. It's poor player management btw club and selection. And Picamoles hasn't played now since the June tour. That's 2 months ago. He didn't get injured on holiday !! He's been injured all along and carrying injuries into the pre-season. Now his body is screaming STOP. Instead of missing out on the tour as he should have, he is missing the start of the season. This is the point I've been making all along since early May. I could have picked any of the 7 Toulousains. I didn't. I said Picamoles was one the most at risk, and now you see.
yes it's downright scandalous. He was taken because Toulouse was under pressure to release him.
This is why I said last May when the list was published that it was shocking. Because too many toulousains should never have been on it.
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/32908-2014-Mid-Year-Tests-France/page3
I said : "should be rested: DUSAUTOIR (just back last we not fit for Intl duty yet) Huget (has done his duty doesn't need more Intl games) PICAMOLES (same) BASTAREAUD (same) Domingo MAS"
Big Ewis
Hall of Fame
and you don't seem to remember I agreed with that, and still do today. He had his hip issue amongst others, but really needed a break for sure regardless...and again, Chouly was worthy, and they actually played Picamoles like, a handful of minutes. Why ?! Why the fk would you play him like 20min in 3 tests, it's absolutely useless. Nobody saw Picamoles last summer, nobody. You seen him ?
Looks like the Toulon staff didn't know about the 30 match limit for friendlies either. Look at how totally impractical this is for managers. The absurdity of it is starting to filter thru. Toulon are not too bothered as they only have a max of 4 players. This is going to be an effing nightmare and a thorn in the side of Toulouse and SF staff.
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-1...oue-les-matchs-amicaux_sto4367446/story.shtml
Big Ewis
Hall of Fame
^ yup, read this too...basically Parisian Hugo Bonneval was part of the group of 30 for the French int'ls and then got badly injured, for the whole year. PSA and staff decided to pick a hooker (??) to replace him in the group, Guilhem Guirado who's now in Toulon. But they decided to do this AFTER the off-season summer friendlies, in which Toulon played Guirado full time. They have now already used up some of his allowed matches as an int'l for the year, and Laporte said "if we'd known he'd be an int'l, we wouldn't have played him during the friendlies".
They should have thought up specific conditions for that, but I guess this LNR-FFR agreement will widely be trial and error, if it manages to survive. It'll be fine-tuned as it goes.
They should have thought up specific conditions for that, but I guess this LNR-FFR agreement will widely be trial and error, if it manages to survive. It'll be fine-tuned as it goes.
"Though up specific conditions"....he he 
they don't do that at FFR/LNR they wouldn't know where to start. The devil is in the details. The impractical application of the agreement are starting to show now, there was no discussion as such. This brain-dead agreement is the biggest load of crap I've seen in a long time. Don't forget that Toulouse the biggest provider of internationals has walked out of the deal.
THis thing is going to get worse as the season goes, not better. Wait till the HCup and AI and 6N start. What a mess.
they don't do that at FFR/LNR they wouldn't know where to start. The devil is in the details. The impractical application of the agreement are starting to show now, there was no discussion as such. This brain-dead agreement is the biggest load of crap I've seen in a long time. Don't forget that Toulouse the biggest provider of internationals has walked out of the deal. THis thing is going to get worse as the season goes, not better. Wait till the HCup and AI and 6N start. What a mess.
this will also backfire on the national side when it comes to the 6N.
Some players will have already clocked up a good number of games after HCup kicks off, and the staff will be forced to NOT pick players they might want/need for 6N.
if a player plays the 12 games FRA will play over the season (before the WC) they only have 18 games left with their club. In an entire season with both competitions this is plain ridiculous.
In the end the club pay its players FULLTIME so that they can be available to les bleus the rest of the time. This is insane.
The devil is in the details as I said. LNR couldn't care less about the practical aspect of implementing their scheme. The clubs are left to sort out the mess that LNR created in the first place. This is how these guys operate. Cook up brainless scheme that cause MORE problems than offer real solutions.
Some players could very well have clocked up to 20 to 25 games by the time 6N is over (if they play regulary in Top 14 +H Cup). Should they continue play in Top 14? no HCup? how many games? and how many more games can they play with the national side?
I don't believe any one in club staff or FFR has the answer to that. Inevitably both parties will have to meet and negotiate. And there, you watch the fireworks my friend.
Some players will have already clocked up a good number of games after HCup kicks off, and the staff will be forced to NOT pick players they might want/need for 6N.
if a player plays the 12 games FRA will play over the season (before the WC) they only have 18 games left with their club. In an entire season with both competitions this is plain ridiculous.
In the end the club pay its players FULLTIME so that they can be available to les bleus the rest of the time. This is insane.
The devil is in the details as I said. LNR couldn't care less about the practical aspect of implementing their scheme. The clubs are left to sort out the mess that LNR created in the first place. This is how these guys operate. Cook up brainless scheme that cause MORE problems than offer real solutions.
Some players could very well have clocked up to 20 to 25 games by the time 6N is over (if they play regulary in Top 14 +H Cup). Should they continue play in Top 14? no HCup? how many games? and how many more games can they play with the national side?
I don't believe any one in club staff or FFR has the answer to that. Inevitably both parties will have to meet and negotiate. And there, you watch the fireworks my friend.
Big Ewis
Hall of Fame
well we don't think alike completely as we know FrenchFan, but surely this is trouble, no doubt.
Of course LNR and FFR are both fkng incompetent, or rather, play the incompetence card or whichever really, ostrich with head in sand, whichever; because they just look for their own interest on both spectrums.
But you say the clubs pay the players and it's crazy they don't get those players. Well yeah but, us, France, we need our Fofana and Picamoles to compete with the AB and England, no ? Of course. Such is the dilemma. We almost need clones of our players, so those Fofana, Picamoles and co. can play simultaneously for France and their clubs respectively.
You have to admit, however ridiculous the repercussions are, that the agreement in its fundamental concept addressed the issues well:
- fresher players from less physical/mental strain
- more time with country to help create real team environment
- protection of players and making official separation between elite French players and the rest
...
Not saying it succeeded, but the solution would be neighboring those conditions anyways. It's just a matter of readjusting the balance and compensating whoever needs it. But we DO need fresh players, time together like everybody else, protection of players like England, etc..
Of course LNR and FFR are both fkng incompetent, or rather, play the incompetence card or whichever really, ostrich with head in sand, whichever; because they just look for their own interest on both spectrums.
But you say the clubs pay the players and it's crazy they don't get those players. Well yeah but, us, France, we need our Fofana and Picamoles to compete with the AB and England, no ? Of course. Such is the dilemma. We almost need clones of our players, so those Fofana, Picamoles and co. can play simultaneously for France and their clubs respectively.
You have to admit, however ridiculous the repercussions are, that the agreement in its fundamental concept addressed the issues well:
- fresher players from less physical/mental strain
- more time with country to help create real team environment
- protection of players and making official separation between elite French players and the rest
...
Not saying it succeeded, but the solution would be neighboring those conditions anyways. It's just a matter of readjusting the balance and compensating whoever needs it. But we DO need fresh players, time together like everybody else, protection of players like England, etc..
hem not sure I follow. You start by saying "this is trouble" and then you think it's a viable solution. Yes we need our internationals. Never said we don't. But not like that. The Agreement creates more problems than it brings solutions. The issues are already being raised by Top 14 coaches not just by me. Laporte was one. Wait till you hear Noves on the subject...
I don't agree they have succeeded in creating a team environment. They haven't. It's not there.
I don't agree they have succeeded in creating a team environment. They haven't. It's not there.
Big Ewis
Hall of Fame
no, no...I'm clearly depicting how this is, in depth (dans le fond), in theory, the right direction or the right place to think in. Then I say that obviously in practical terms, the way they have worked it specifically with their concrete rules and conditions is problematic. I'm saying at least they're looking at the right things, which I've enumerated multiple times, I quote myself:
- fresher players from less physical/mental strain
- more time with country to help create real team environment
- protection of players and making official separation between elite French players and the rest
...etc...
I'm not saying I agree or condone what they've actually agreed on and signed etc...I'm saying they're addressing the correct ground.
And obviously they haven't created the right team environment, you and I agree on this all the time. It's toxic over there, putrid, fermented, poisonous, hindering, everything you want. Even our fkng scrum - OUR SCRUM - stops working when we get together and wear Bleus.
- fresher players from less physical/mental strain
- more time with country to help create real team environment
- protection of players and making official separation between elite French players and the rest
...etc...
I'm not saying I agree or condone what they've actually agreed on and signed etc...I'm saying they're addressing the correct ground.
And obviously they haven't created the right team environment, you and I agree on this all the time. It's toxic over there, putrid, fermented, poisonous, hindering, everything you want. Even our fkng scrum - OUR SCRUM - stops working when we get together and wear Bleus.
They won't address the issues that plague the national side with their 30 Elite Group. All they're doing is ******* off the big clubs with a mickey mouse deal that creates more problems on the ground than offer real solutions.
again, there is only 2 solutions. Either FFR directly contract the internationals from the clubs. Or, work in close cooperation with clubs and get them to buy into the national side and lend their full support.
My take is they don't have the balls money and foresight to do the former. They have failed abysmally at the latter.
The ball is firmly in FFR camp to sort out the mess with les bleus. The solution isn't going to come from the clubs. And so far, with the WC around the corner, they have done NOTHING.
again, there is only 2 solutions. Either FFR directly contract the internationals from the clubs. Or, work in close cooperation with clubs and get them to buy into the national side and lend their full support.
My take is they don't have the balls money and foresight to do the former. They have failed abysmally at the latter.
The ball is firmly in FFR camp to sort out the mess with les bleus. The solution isn't going to come from the clubs. And so far, with the WC around the corner, they have done NOTHING.
Big Ewis
Hall of Fame
expand on that idea. How would they do this, in what terms realistically ? There doesn't seem to be anything possible down that route, the Top 14 is an Empire risen now, there's no way to contain it and have its coaches/staff/owners be okay with borrowing players. A club like Toulouse has had enough issues WITH their huge names and internationals, what now w/o them for half a season ?
How in the world do you "convince" clubs, if not by direct compensation ?
yes Boss but briefly.
They should appoint a negotiator. Someone at the Ligue who can work with the clubs because the clubs will only deal with a credible person. That rules out a lot of our friends at FFR & LNR.
I believe some of that work should also fall to the national coach. That negotiator would work closely with the national coach and the clubs to establish a working relationship. They need to work together. They have been drifting away from each other with very different agendas for the last 6 years now.
They are already getting direct financial compensation (1300 E per player). Money alone won't solve the issue.
I don't believe they can work together. Too much bad blood. The clubs are focused on the Top14 and to a lesser extent HCup. It's their business. They don't have time to worry about les Bleus.
Ball is firmly on FFR side. It's their move. But unfortunately they have other priorities. les Bleus is not one of them. This is where I think they are taking a lot of fans for a ride.
Their 2 main priorities right now and up to 2016 are winning the next FFR presidency election + building their new stadium outside of Paris http://grandstaderugby.fr/
They should appoint a negotiator. Someone at the Ligue who can work with the clubs because the clubs will only deal with a credible person. That rules out a lot of our friends at FFR & LNR.
I believe some of that work should also fall to the national coach. That negotiator would work closely with the national coach and the clubs to establish a working relationship. They need to work together. They have been drifting away from each other with very different agendas for the last 6 years now.
They are already getting direct financial compensation (1300 E per player). Money alone won't solve the issue.
I don't believe they can work together. Too much bad blood. The clubs are focused on the Top14 and to a lesser extent HCup. It's their business. They don't have time to worry about les Bleus.
Ball is firmly on FFR side. It's their move. But unfortunately they have other priorities. les Bleus is not one of them. This is where I think they are taking a lot of fans for a ride.
Their 2 main priorities right now and up to 2016 are winning the next FFR presidency election + building their new stadium outside of Paris http://grandstaderugby.fr/
here we go for another episode in the Elite 30 group saga.
After the coaches who pointed out how impractical the scheme is (this is putting it midly). Now the players are joining forces to vent their frustration. Ah yes we forgot about the players. When politics get in the way why worry about the players
Guirado makes an obvious point : he trains hard all week. But he has to SIT on the bench for the weekend games as he has already 2 games (2 effing friendlies!). Imagine, players train all week...to hem play. But they won't. Can't. AH !
Maybe we'll end up with a group of 30 FRUSTRATED internationals. Could be good. They'll take out their frustration on the opposition. Could it be what makes them competitive?
He says he will be able to play only 25 games with his club. Well Ghilhem this might actually be even less in the end...
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-1...c-est-un-peu-frustrant_sto4377395/story.shtml
After the coaches who pointed out how impractical the scheme is (this is putting it midly). Now the players are joining forces to vent their frustration. Ah yes we forgot about the players. When politics get in the way why worry about the players
Guirado makes an obvious point : he trains hard all week. But he has to SIT on the bench for the weekend games as he has already 2 games (2 effing friendlies!). Imagine, players train all week...to hem play. But they won't. Can't. AH !
Maybe we'll end up with a group of 30 FRUSTRATED internationals. Could be good. They'll take out their frustration on the opposition. Could it be what makes them competitive?
He says he will be able to play only 25 games with his club. Well Ghilhem this might actually be even less in the end...
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-1...c-est-un-peu-frustrant_sto4377395/story.shtml
Similar threads
