The South Africans are coming

[unrated]

Yup the resistance will mainly come from the teams on the fringes.not the Leinsters, Saracens or Toulouse of the world but rather the teams on the edge of qualification who now might need to give up their spot in the Champions cup. The comp will be stronger with the SA teams, and those too weak to fight for their place will lose money if the process is done via means of qualification in (x league) so their best chance to maintain that source of revenue is to stop it at boardroom level way before it happens.

If the South African teams are so bad then no one needs to worry, they won't even qualify for the champions cup. Scrappy teams won't make it into the top 4 so relax.

 

[Which Tyler]

The GMT/CET cup


TBF to the Saffa's it sounded like too me it was more NZ thinking they are so much bigger than the others.

TBF, the last 20 years have seen the Saffers throwing their weight around SANZAR, threatening to leave and thinking they're bigger than they are. This year, Aus and NZ have simply called their bluff.

The continental shield teams will definitely get binned off, which is a massive shame



Edit:

Formatting wise I'd go for:

Champions Cup:
Pro12 loses two qualification spots to accommodate two new South African franchises
Keep it as 5 pools of four

Challenge Cup:
Four additional teams (2 from Champions cup dropping down + 2 new south african franchises)
Reshuffle so that it's 6 groups of four, rather than the current 5, and keep the two Continental Shield teams in
Rather than 5 leaders + 3 next highest placed progress, it's 6 leaders + two highest placed

Meh, I've never liked odd numbers in these things.
Given that it looks like the Prem is increasing ( ); and that we've now established that it's by league rather than by nation ( )

European Cup - 4 pools of 4.
5 French, 5 English, 6 from the Pro"14"

European Plate - 4 pools of 4.
5 French, 5 English, 6 from Pro "14"

European Bowl - 4 pools of 4.
4 French, 4 English, 4 Pro"14", 1 from Georgia/Russia, 1 from Spain/Portugal, 1 from Germany/Belgium, 1 from Italy/Romania

European Shield - 4 pools of 4.
2 teams from each of those 8 countries

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Champions Cup:
Pro12 loses two qualification spots to accommodate two new South African franchises
Keep it as 5 pools of four

The PRL already forced qualifying to be done based on the league's teams play in rather than country through, why change that again to accommodate the Saffa teams to further disadvantage Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian sides?

 

[Which Tyler]

The PRL already forced qualifying to be done based on the league's teams play in rather than country through, why change that again to accommodate the Saffa teams to further disadvantage Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian sides?

Because it's the Irish, Welsh, Scots and Italians who have invited the Saffers in?

 

[WaterboySA]

TBF, the last 20 years have seen the Saffers throwing their weight around SANZAR, threatening to leave and thinking they're bigger than they are. This year, Aus and NZ have simply called their bluff.

The RFU couldn't possibly beg us harder and faster to join the comp....us being the top rugby country in the world and all that stuff.....

 

[WaterboySA]

The PRL already forced qualifying to be done based on the league's teams play in rather than country through, why change that again to accommodate the Saffa teams to further disadvantage Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian sides?

C'mon Alpha, don't support these guys....SA's like an additional Irish province!!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Because it's the Irish, Welsh, Scots and Italians who have invited the Saffers in?

He's suggested that the Saffas get two free spots regardless of where they finish in the league. There'd be no need for them had the PRL not taken that away from the pro14 nations when they ****** the competition for years.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair I thought it was still the highest placed from each nation, and the rest it's doled out on league position
If it's purely table position based (as it should be) then keep the numbers as is and have the top however many it is go through to champions cup

Sucks for the Italian sides (and, more often than not, Welsh and Scottish too), who would need to qualify upto 4 spots higher than usual, but oh well

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be fair I thought it was still the highest placed from each nation, and the rest it's doled out on league position
If it's purely table position based (as it should be) then keep the numbers as is and have the top however many it is go through to champions cup

Sucks for the Italian sides (and, more often than not, Welsh and Scottish too), who would need to qualify upto 4 spots higher than usual, but oh well

Fair enough. I think it should go back to a 24 team tournament, with the standard of clubs being higher now than it was 8 years ago and the addition of 4 strong sides it seems like a no brainer. Each league gets 7 places, the b competition's finalists are qualify and then my preference would be that the final spot goes to the best team from a participating country not represented but an extra place for the champion's league/nation would suffice too.

If this was the case the worst teams that could qualify are (based on current league standings and assuming three SA teams are in the top 8 of the Pro Rainbow Sprinkles Whatever the **** it'll be called by then league) are Bath, Casters and Glasgow/Cardiff. Hardly poses the problems Calvisano and Viadana did back in the day.

 

[mdaclarke]

If I was in charge I would say to the South African's that they cannot join the Pro 14. However their top 4 teams from the Currie Cup can play in an expanded European Champions Cup and the Next 3/4 teams can play in the European Challenge Cup.

The South Africans will still get extra money from being in the European Comps and the fringe clubs won't feel threatened by the loss of places.

Would be good for the Cheetahs, Pumas and Griquas too.

 

[TRF_heineken]

No, just don't want to see even more disruption to the NH season, for no reason(/because the south african franchises decided they're bigger than Super Rugby)

I imagine the PRL and the FRU will veto this, anyway - there just isn't the room in the calendar, and they're not going to bend over backwards to placate the Pro14(16? 18? 20?) at the cost of the Premiership/Top 14

Would the PRL and FRU still veto this if there isn't any disruption to the NH season?

I don't think our inclusion is to make it more difficult and disruptive to the NH teams and tournaments, but rather to strengthen and improve quality of the tournaments we might be involved with.

Also, I don't think we want to be favoured ahead of teams who have been part of the tournaments already, but rather prove that our teams play better winning rugby.

Would it not be better for the European Champions cup to have all it's particitpating teams in with a chance of actually winning the ***le, instead of having pools with a team that is somewhat weaker than the other teams, making the road to the playoffs a bit easier??

Also, with the French and English teams consistently offering South African's contracts, would it not be better for them to approve this move, and seeing how the Saffa players perform in NH conditions, giving them a better scope of the talent on offer?

 

[Jimbo]

Would the PRL and FRU still veto this if there isn't any disruption to the NH season?

I don't think our inclusion is to make it more difficult and disruptive to the NH teams and tournaments, but rather to strengthen and improve quality of the tournaments we might be involved with.

Also, I don't think we want to be favoured ahead of teams who have been part of the tournaments already, but rather prove that our teams play better winning rugby.

Would it not be better for the European Champions cup to have all it's particitpating teams in with a chance of actually winning the ***le, instead of having pools with a team that is somewhat weaker than the other teams, making the road to the playoffs a bit easier??

Also, with the French and English teams consistently offering South African's contracts, would it not be better for them to approve this move, and seeing how the Saffa players perform in NH conditions, giving them a better scope of the talent on offer?

Scotland and Ireland offer SA contracts the only difference is France and England generally don't cap them for their national team.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Would the PRL and FRU still veto this if there isn't any disruption to the NH season?

Unless the franchises relocate to the NH then there'll be disruption just from the travel factor

 

[RedruthRFC]

Would it not be better for the European Champions cup to have all it's particitpating teams in with a chance of actually winning the ***le, instead of having pools with a team that is somewhat weaker than the other teams, making the road to the playoffs a bit easier??

It might be better for the European Champions cup, but would it be better for the English and French teams? They'll be making their decision from a purely selfish perspective. The way I look at it, to get the thumbs up, the SA teams will need to bring enough to the table to compensate for the reduced chance of making the knockout phases.

Also, with the French and English teams consistently offering South African's contracts, would it not be better for them to approve this move, and seeing how the Saffa players perform in NH conditions, giving them a better scope of the talent on offer?

I'd guess they'd more worried about cutting off their supply of cheap labour by improving their employment opportunities in South Africa.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Scotland and Ireland offer SA contracts the only difference is France and England generally don't cap them for their national team.

Lol

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think France have had a fair share of South Africans.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I find it interesting how some people have no problem with foreigners filling up the squads of the teams in the league/s they follow, especially when it serves their purpose, but god forbid if the legal residence of the team they have to compete against comes from abroad (outside europe). We should put that next to merriam webster's definition of irony.


"What are we going to call it? It's not European anymore!"

Who the **** cares about the name of the league? Seriously.


Didn't you want globalization?
You'll have it in spades.

 

[Groundhog]

Scotland and Ireland offer SA contracts the only difference is France and England generally don't cap them for their national team.

??? Well they both have done. France have both Le Roux and Willemse right now and have the likes of Spedding and Kockott in the past. England have had Mike Catt, Matt Stephens, Mouritz Botha and a bunch of other guys play for them in the distant past.

Fact is both would pick any guy who is good enough and who qualifies.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I find it interesting how some people have no problem with foreigners filling up the squads of the teams in the league/s they follow, especially when it serves their purpose, but god forbid if the legal residence of the team they have to compete against comes from abroad (outside europe). We should put that next to merriam webster's definition of irony.


"What are we going to call it? It's not European anymore!"

Who the **** cares about the name of the league? Seriously.


Didn't you want globalization?
You'll have it in spades.

That's quite incorrect. I don't mind having capped foreigners in my league, which most are. But filling a league with average non cap foreigners isn't what we do or what anyone wants.

You look at the Premiership and you'll see you are quite mistaken.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

But filling a league with average non cap foreigners isn't what we do or what anyone wants.

Just to be clear and call a spade a spade, are you implying that the bulls, wp or the sharks can't compete with powerhouses such as bath, harlequins or saints?

As long as the teams joining are better than the league's worst team the leagues level goes, necessarily, up. It's not rocket science.

I don't mind having capped foreigners in my league, which most are. But filling a league with average non cap foreigners isn't what we do or what anyone wants.

"anyone wants"...

Quite the ego there claiming to be the voice of the people, especially after quite a few posters here have implied they would like to see this happen.