The Leinster thread

[Leonormous Boozer]

No. All Central Contracts are basically just the IRFU funding and effectively loaning player to province. No that it would ever happen but TECHNICALLY if IRFU said to Leinster that we want Sean O'Brien for instance to play centre and Leinster said no. Then that is breach of the agreement and he could be moved to another province. Now that is an extreme and it all just theory as IRFU own the lot so it will never happen. But Central deals are more for accounting and budget side than anything but is very helpful as it is said Leinster save up to 1.5-1.8million a year on wages which can be freed up to sign higher calibre of NIQ.
But again it all budgetary stiff as effectively all earnings of all provinces goes to the same bucket and that bucket pays out.
But back to original bit no some CCs are for 2 years. An example is Rory Best may be offered a new 2 year CC. Paul O'Connells last deal was 2 years. He signed a year before Toulon offer.
Also law is it supposed to be 1 of each position like you can't have 2 9s etc but that is gone now by McGrath and Healy both on CC. There is alot of flaws and fairness issues attached. And I don't mean just that by fact Leinster get most benefit from wages but for example of Leinster won everything for next 10 years and sold out every game they'd still receive same as rest of provinces. But it gets messy with things like IRFU look after RDS rent to certain extent, obviously is with Thomond and Ulster had help with Kingspan.
The issue now is for them to gauge how to allow outside funding without losing control

I don't think Leinster getting rewarded for producing the most international starters is all that unfair to be honest especially as we only have the two with two projects which is less than the rest of the provinces which suggests to me more is going on to produce home talent. I was asking about three years because Trimble, Bowe and Heaslip are all on them and they've been far from successful ventures thus far. I heard from a lad working in Connacht Rugby that Ulster get more funding than anyone because they get the same as the rest from the IRFU as well as British Gov. funding, if that dries up post BREXIT when the UK goes broke Ulster could be up **** creek without a paddle except that instead of a boat they're in another **** creek.

My biggest criticism from my admittedly limited knowledge would be the insistence on having only 15 ccs. There's a list of about 20 lads who deserve them, if its a lack of funding that is fair but it seems like an arbitrary number to me.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't think Leinster getting rewarded for producing the most international starters is all that unfair to be honest especially as we only have the two with two projects which is less than the rest of the provinces which suggests to me more is going on to produce home talent. I was asking about three years because Trimble, Bowe and Heaslip are all on them and they've been far from successful ventures thus far. I heard from a lad working in Connacht Rugby that Ulster get more funding than anyone because they get the same as the rest from the IRFU as well as British Gov. funding, if that dries up post BREXIT when the UK goes broke Ulster could be up **** creek without a paddle except that instead of a boat they're in another **** creek.

My biggest criticism from my admittedly limited knowledge would be the insistence on having only 15 ccs. There's a list of about 20 lads who deserve them, if its a lack of funding that is fair but it seems like an arbitrary number to me.

But thing is under Kidney Munster had more internationals. That's a cycle and it is unfair as it allows Leinster have more depth due to freed up funds. Also would you say it's unfair Leinster get rent paid. Yes Munster had help but will own it at end of day. Now therefore pros and cons but fact is if Leinster were their own entity they'd struggle hugely to stay afloat. As would rest. So basically it seems agreed it is very unfair and reforms are being sought. I do predict the model being suggested where a contribution per international appearance will be in so for example of a guy is on €100k the IRFU will pay 5% of contract every game. So effectively there is 10 internationals a year. So they'd pay up to 50%. Issues here are if a guy is injured like Heaslip then Leinster would have to pay 100% of deal and that would hurt their budget. So it seems possible the bigger the deal the bigger the risk for province but equally fired responsibility back to provinces on who is important

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

But more my point Snoop. Dave Kearney is not a million miles better than few youngsters. When it gets to that level in depth are you better paying lower for youngstr guy than more for older guy. Like whatever my views on DK he is classed an international and well I'm sure his wage will demand that status.

I agree with the principle that when it comes to squad depth, you're better going for cheaper youngsters with promise than with more expensive players who'll never be internationals. For example, if Leinster had to make a choice between holding onto Mick Kearney, Ian Nagle or Ross Molony, they should choose Molony.

Dave Kearney is a different case. He's a current international notwithstanding many people's criticism of him. He's 28 years old so his play shouldn't deteriorate over the course of a 2 year contract. I'd contract him ahead of Hugo Keenan, Ian Fitzpatrick, Terry Kennedy or Jack Kelly any time. Those four have potential but may never reach international standard. Kearney is a proven commodity. I'd rank him 3rd behind Adam Byrne and James Lowe at the wing position for Leinster with Barry Daly not a million miles behind him and Fergus McFadden 5th.

 

[munstermuffin]

I agree with the principle that when it comes to squad depth, you're better going for cheaper youngsters with promise than with more expensive players who'll never be internationals. For example, if Leinster had to make a choice between holding onto Mick Kearney, Ian Nagle or Ross Molony, they should choose Molony.

Dave Kearney is a different case. He's a current international notwithstanding many people's criticism of him. He's 28 years old so his play shouldn't deteriorate over the course of a 2 year contract. I'd contract him ahead of Hugo Keenan, Ian Fitzpatrick, Terry Kennedy or Jack Kelly any time. Those four have potential but may never reach international standard. Kearney is a proven commodity. I'd rank him 3rd behind Adam Byrne and James Lowe at the wing position for Leinster with Barry Daly not a million miles behind him and Fergus McFadden 5th.

Well I suppose it more we rank him differently I'd genuinely have him behind Daly and I think he's more an international in the sense he will play if there is an injury crisis. But again it will come down to where the Leinster management see him and does that equal the budget. For example I'm guessing he is looking for a wage in the region of €90-100k as an international. If Keenan gets €35k and Kelly the same. Would you go for depth in 2 players for €70k or Kearney at his wage.
That's my point in that it will come to more that type of call.
Yes Kearney is viewed as better but when you factor in everything. You commented on the next 2 years. Will lads go the next 2 or 5 years. And as you say it's a gamble. Go for someone who may overtake Kearney as a winger by some distance but equally may flop.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Go for someone who may overtake Kearney as a winger by some distance but equally may flop.

This is where we differ. I'm all in favour for promoting top level young talent like Andrew Porter, James Ryan, Max Deegan and Jordan Larmour as is being done this season. From the academy, Jack Aungier, Hugh O'Sullivan, Caelan Doris, Ronan Kelleher and Tommy O'Brien fall into the same category of players who could be fast tracked as high end talents in the next 12-24 months. Jack Kelly could reach that level too.

I don't see Hugo Keenan, Ian Fitzpatrick or Terry Kennedy hitting that level. Those are the players Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden are trying to fend off. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's more likely that Kearney and McFadden are fighting for one contract than both of them fighting to hold off unproven rookies.

In short, absolutely back the young player who you believe has a high probability of being a major contributor. I'd be wary of backing anyone who you're unsure about. Go with the proven commodity. Cost savings can be made elsewhere.

 

[munstermuffin]

This is where we differ. I'm all in favour for promoting top level young talent like Andrew Porter, James Ryan, Max Deegan and Jordan Larmour as is being done this season. From the academy, Jack Aungier, Hugh O'Sullivan, Caelan Doris, Ronan Kelleher and Tommy O'Brien fall into the same category of players who could be fast tracked as high end talents in the next 12-24 months. Jack Kelly could reach that level too.

I don't see Hugo Keenan, Ian Fitzpatrick or Terry Kennedy hitting that level. Those are the players Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden are trying to fend off. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's more likely that Kearney and McFadden are fighting for one contract than both of them fighting to hold off unproven rookies.

In short, absolutely back the young player who you believe has a high probability of being a major contributor. I'd be wary of backing anyone who you're unsure about. Go with the proven commodity. Cost savings can be made elsewhere.

But my point is that exactly Snoop. If new ideas do throw it back on provinces Leinster will be hit worst as they'll be taking back huge clout. And there might not be too many other areas for savings. Like I'd rather have a 3rd choice TH prop like Bent that a 3rd choice winger like DK. The point being the areas you try keep depth quality as elite as you can is key too. I'm all for youth if it's up to it but I don't think people in Leinster realise the impact it would have if it is put back on provinces. If anything Munster and Ulster would benefit and Leinster would suffer but again that's why it still is at brainstorm

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Losing Nacewa, McFadden and Kearney in the one position is never going to happen.Kearney is in his prime and has plenty of experience. Yes he has faults but his positives (line busting) for something. He could easily play 20 games next season and be a major contributor.

Twisting it around, would it be reasonable to expect Munster to lose Zebo, Sweetnam and Wootton in the one position because they have Nash and Coombes coming up? Of course it wouldn't.

 

[munstermuffin]

Losing Nacewa, McFadden and Kearney in the one position is never going to happen.Kearney is in his prime and has plenty of experience. Yes he has faults but his positives (line busting) for something. He could easily play 20 games next season and be a major contributor.

Twisting it around, would it be reasonable to expect Munster to lose Zebo, Sweetnam and Wootton in the one position because they have Nash and Coombes coming up? Of course it wouldn't.

As I said it probably won't happen but Munster unlikely to be in that position as they don't have as much weight on wage bill if it was bounced back but if it came to where Wootton was on a big 90-100k deal and not certain in 23 vs Nash then he would be cut. Similar happened here in early 00's

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Leinster 'A'

15. Ciarán Frawley
14. Jack Kelly
13. Gavin Mullin
12. Conor O'Brien
11. Tommy O'Brien
10. Cathal Marsh
9. Charlie Rock
1. Peter Dooley
2. Bryan Byrne CAPTAIN
3. Vakh Abdaladze
4. Josh Murphy
5. Ian Nagle
6. Peadar Timmins
7. Will Connors
8. Max Deegan

Replacements

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Ed Byrne
18. Cormac Daly
19. Caelan Doris
20. Hugh O'Sullivan
21. Ian Fitzpatrick
22. Hugo Keenan

That's the Leinster A team for the game against Bristol tomorrow

 

[big ginger 8]

Ruddock is staying another 2 years.

 

[Amiga500]

No. Sponsorship is minimal. They need a few more to help like the Sexton style deal where outside funds help. Sponsorship is very small when it isn't jersey sponsorship.

Well, if they want to find someone willing to chuck away money with no input into how it's spent or publicity for spending it - I'm sure that'll last a long time. It'll be a very short list of folks wanting to do that.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Ruddock is staying another 2 years.

That's brilliant news. He's been in great form all year.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ruddock out of the squad, Lowe in.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ruddock out of the squad, Lowe in.

Still the issue of JPG, Lowe and Fardy can't be in same 23

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Leinster A team for the home game against Bristol tomorrow. Noteworthy is that Michael Bent is included. Means Andrew Porter is in the 23 for Exeter.

Leinster 'A'

15. Ciarán Frawley
14. Hugo Keenan
13. Gavin Mullin
12. Conor O'Brien
11. Tommy O'Brien
10. Cathal Marsh
9. Nick McCarthy
1. Ed Byrne
2. Bryan Byrne CAPTAIN
3. Michael Bent
4. Ross Molony
5. Ian Nagle
6. Josh Murphy
7. Will Connors
8. Peadar Timmins

Replacements

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Peter Dooley
18. Jack Aungier
19. Óisín Dowling
20. Caelan Doris
21. Charlie Rock
22. Jack Kelly

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Saw it mentioned on LF.com and planet rugby that Sean Cronin could be off the Bristol.

Do Leinster look to recruit or would the IRFU block a replacement coming in and blocking James Tracy? I'd love to see Bryan Byrne step up or Ronan Kelleher get opportunities. Kelleher is a fantastic ball carrier who could be a Cronin clone as he gets older.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/furlong-signs-three-year-irfu-contact/

Tadhg Furlong has signed a three-year IRFU contract to remain at Leinster Rugby up to June 2021.

Great news for Leinster. He along with Conor Murray, Rory Best and Johnny Sexton are key players for Ireland with their backups a distance behind them.

 

[Groundhog]

As a counterweight to Munster signing young Saffers, here's a weird one.
http://www.the42.ie/roman-salanoa-hawaii-leinster-rugby-3807005-Jan2018/
Leinster have a young Hawaiian playing for them in the sub academy. I'm not going to go on a rant like I did in the Munster thread, but genuinely curious as to the events that lead this guy towards moving to Ireland. Not sure how I haven't seen him mentioned, it's interesting.
EDIT: Just checked his Instagram. He's certainly played rugby before coming here. Seems he played both.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Good find. I saw his name listed on the Leinster development squad and assumed he was from either New Zealand or the Pacific island rugby playing nations and here on a trial.

He must have impressed on his week long trial in 2016 if he's been picked up by the sub-academy. There could be an opening for him. It looks likely that Oisín Heffernan and Jeremy Loughman won't progress with Leinster. Leinster are set with their top three tightheads which affords them time to take a chance on a project. The conversion of Andrew Porter to tighthead looks like it's working well so Leinster seem to have the coaching know how on how to upskill a raw talent.

Jack Aungier is a superb prospect at 3. Apparently Mike Ross is mentoring him. Vakh Abdaladze has already made his debut and looks like a decent talent. There's no harm having a look at another option in Roman Salanoa. Even if it doesn't work out for him at Leinster, his exposure to top class coaching and a professional environment will stand him in great stead as he looks to progress his club and international careers.

Won't name them here because they're still in school but there are another couple of excellent prospects at tighthead due to come to the attention of the Leinster academy over the next two years.

 

[munstermuffin]

Good find. I saw his name listed on the Leinster development squad and assumed he was from either New Zealand or the Pacific island rugby playing nations and here on a trial.

He must have impressed on his week long trial in 2016 if he's been picked up by the sub-academy. There could be an opening for him. It looks likely that Oisín Heffernan and Jeremy Loughman won't progress with Leinster. Leinster are set with their top three tightheads which affords them time to take a chance on a project. The conversion of Andrew Porter to tighthead looks like it's working well so Leinster seem to have the coaching know how on how to upskill a raw talent.

Jack Aungier is a superb prospect at 3. Apparently Mike Ross is mentoring him. Vakh Abdaladze has already made his debut and looks like a decent talent. There's no harm having a look at another option in Roman Salanoa. Even if it doesn't work out for him at Leinster, his exposure to top class coaching and a professional environment will stand him in great stead as he looks to progress his club and international careers.

Won't name them here because they're still in school but there are another couple of excellent prospects at tighthead due to come to the attention of the Leinster academy over the next two years.

Leinster Schools is argubally 1 of strongest U18 competitions in world now genuinely.
And is getting more pro as years go on