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Swing Low

Sonic Kiwi

Sonic Kiwi

Academy Player
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
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New Zealand
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New Zealand
I cringe when I hear that.

As funny as it is, I thought the English fans singing "swing low, sweet chariot" was in reference to the English rugby team to carry there ancestors back home from the antipides.

Little did I know that the song has more meaning than just a chant.

 
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Eh? What's the problem exactly? It's part of Rugby tradition/history now. Yeah it's completely out of context to its original history but stuff like that happens all the time.

Alot of fans (not me) hate the haka and there's WW3 whenever anyone suggests getting rid of it.
 
The story of how it started was that it was racist - basically, a black player (I forget who) scored a hat trick, a bunch of drunk fans thought it would be funny to celebrate this with a song associated with slavery.

Not cool, but nowadays I don't think anyone singing it is doing so racially, I doubt most even know the origin story.
 
Every Time Ref said:
The story of how it started was that it was racist - basically, a black player (I forget who) scored a hat trick, a bunch of drunk fans thought it would be funny to celebrate this with a song associated with slavery.

Not cool, but nowadays I don't think anyone singing it is doing so racially, I doubt most even know the origin story.
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Is it racist? I mean look at this way, it's song sung by the oppressed not by the oppressors in history and was sung in support of a black player rather than mocking him or at least that's always the context I've heard.

This is the definition of racism.
"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

I don't think that's true of this case especially if you read the wikipedia page which has several references to why it happened.
 
The player was Chris Oti... Don't know if it was meant as a racist joke but it needs to go.
 
My feeling is however it was intended at first (racist or not), that isn't how it's meant when it's sung today. I like it. It isn't as good a song musically speaking as Bread of Heaven and it isn't great theatre like the Haka, but it's ours - and at least it isn't as lame as Waltzing Mathilda.

What's your objection to it GN10?
 
Reminds me of Jonah Lomu Rugby game, back in 97', fend fend fend.
 
goodNumber10 said:
The player was Chris Oti... Don't know if it was meant as a racist joke but it needs to go.
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I would hope you mean that solely on the grounds of musical inadequacy rather than some sort of anti racism stance which would be rather ludicrous at this stage.

It has been sung so long that its sole meaning is a support for the English rugby team and the words are irrelevant in its context!
 
You learn something new every day. I never knew the origins of the song and just assumed it was some kind of English nationalist tune. Whatever the reason for its start I doubt anyone sees it as anything other than support for the team on the field today and personally I'd be sad to see it go if it ever went. I've always wished SA had something like it but the traditional white supporters aren't a people with a particularly strong musical tradition and other than that we might end up with vuvuzela's which would be worse than having nothing IMO.
 
Every Time Ref said:
My feeling is however it was intended at first (racist or not), that isn't how it's meant when it's sung today. I like it. It isn't as good a song musically speaking as Bread of Heaven and it isn't great theatre like the Haka, but it's ours - and at least it isn't as lame as Waltzing Mathilda.

What's your objection to it GN10?
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Nothing profound, just don't like it.

Prefer Jerusalem, hearing 60,000 singing that would make me weep.
 
Tony Manx said:
I would hope you mean that solely on the grounds of musical inadequacy rather than some sort of anti racism stance which would be rather ludicrous at this stage.

It has been sung so long that its sole meaning is a support for the English rugby team and the words are irrelevant in its context!
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Oh yeah. I just don't like it as a piece of music.
 
Every Time Ref said:
The story of how it started was that it was racist - basically, a black player (I forget who) scored a hat trick, a bunch of drunk fans thought it would be funny to celebrate this with a song associated with slavery.
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That's the first time I've ever heard someone imply that it was anything other than celebratory.
 
goodNumber10 said:
Nothing profound, just don't like it.

Prefer Jerusalem, hearing 60,000 singing that would make me weep.
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I've always thought we should use Jerusalem as our national anthem - God Save the Queen is the UK's national anthem anyway, so when we sing it against Wales and Scotland we're effectively singing their own anthem at them, plus it's not exactly inspiring and motivating. I'm envious of the welsh national anthem.
 
I hate it and I hate the actions pricks do with it.

Hahahahahah lets do a w*****g sign when we sing coming forth..... Because we are such Lads and banter masters.

Mind you in general I hate the twickenham crowd anyone up themselves pricks full of "Lads" who will never accomplish much on a rugby field but are the armchair masters.

If you haven't guess I hate the whole Lad culture.

Rant over........ For now.

Jerusalem would be amazing though.
 
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ratsapprentice said:
That's the first time I've ever heard someone imply that it was anything other than celebratory.
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Really? It's a fairly commonly-held belief in my experience. Not saying I know whether it was intended that way, but can see why people might assume so.

goodNumber10 said:
Nothing profound, just don't like it.

Prefer Jerusalem, hearing 60,000 singing that would make me weep.
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Jerusalem is a much better song, much more stirring and emotive. But it isn't the song of English rugby, and that's just the point for me

chippieolamus said:
I've always thought we should use Jerusalem as our national anthem - God Save the Queen is the UK's national anthem anyway, so when we sing it against Wales and Scotland we're effectively singing their own anthem at them, plus it's not exactly inspiring and motivating. I'm envious of the welsh national anthem.
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100% agree
 
ncurd said:
Is it racist? I mean look at this way, it's song sung by the oppressed not by the oppressors in history and was sung in support of a black player rather than mocking him or at least that's always the context I've heard.

This is the definition of racism.
"the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

I don't think that's true of this case especially if you read the wikipedia page which has several references to why it happened.
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See 1m55s to 2m37s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXDfaLzzoo8#t=1m55s
 
She may have a point but she's referring to every day normal stuff. Scoring a hat trick for your country doesn't really classify under the holding hands in public....

We're also talking about 1988 over a quarter of a century ago and whilst not radically different had a different view on sexuality/race/gender.

Should they have called attention to his race? It's right to say probably not but that's a long way from actual racism.
 

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