SuperRugby - Blues vs Hurricanes - 23/03/2012

[Sam Owen]

Blues and 'Canes usually have good games but this was ridiculous.

 

[nickdnz]

Hurricanes did nothing all game, then win with a BP by getting four opportunistic tries

They really played very poorly - catching seemed to evade a lot of their forwards at times.

Pffft.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Pffft.

He is right. Fat boy Weepu lost the Blues the game in the last minute. If fatty hadn't pointlessly kicked the ball away with a minute to go and then missed the tackle on Barrett the Blues would have wrapped it up.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Forget about Lam leaving at the end of the season.
He'll be fired before then.

The Blues just plain suck at the moment.

Totally hamstrung by a coach who fails to play his best players week in, week out. Then has sparkling game plans like kicking away at least half of your ball.

Time to step aside Pat.

 

[Larksea]

good game, I watched it kinda hoping both teams would win

sum up the game as a Team of Stars vs. a Star Team

about as close as a game could get, nothing in it. Hurricanes really had the bounce of the ball go their way, as good as they were they also got really lucky for more than one of their trys. But in the end the deciding score was some pure Barrett Magic. Surely no one will question why there is so much hype about this guy now.

If Lam though the heat was on before this game I'm sure his underpants are steaming hot now. I think the biggest mistake in that game was having Weepu on for the full 80. Sure his form looks ok but he still looks like a chubby little ****.

Blues desperately need a bye and they need Ranger, L Braid and Anscombe back in the side. They somehow desperately need to get Weepu fit, find and cut off his pie supply line. Get him playing 60-70min at 9 and Mathewson off the bench.

Canes look cool, some issues with the scrum at times I think it was mainly to do with the new kid having to contend with Tony Woodcock. The problems seemed to go away when Ben May switched sides - he really impressed at tighthead - if he keeps doing that and keeps his penalty count down he will be a serious All Black contender.

Canes back three is deadly. So good to see Savea finally show the strengths he has and become a genuine top shelf winger with test potential.

Conrad smith just seems to do no wrong.

Great game, goes to show again how cose the NZ conference is, with the bounce of the ball being the deciding factor in many results.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Pffft.

You disagree? You think any other NZ franchise wouldn't have beaten the Hurricanes based on their performance in this game? You can't fault a team for getting opportunistic tries, but really, Blues played most of the rugby.

 

[nickdnz]

You disagree? You think any other NZ franchise wouldn't have beaten the Hurricanes based on their performance in this game? You can't fault a team for getting opportunistic tries, but really, Blues played most of the rugby.

I actually think the Hurricanes played pretty well. They were penalised to death and were given very few oppertunities but made the mot out of what they got. Every time the Hurricanes did get the ball they looked very, very dangerous. Their defence was also very good considering. I wouldn't be suprised if they beat the Crusaders with that performance.

The stats for this match also back this up.

Runs with ball: Blues 115 - Hurricanes 82
Metres run with ball: Blues 258 - Hurricanes 428
Clean Line Breaks with ball: Blues 1 - Hurricanes 7
Defenders Beaten: Blues 6 - Hurricanes 17

The Hurricanes looked much more destructive. The fact that the Hurricanes were penalised 11 times in the game to the Blues 3, just shows how much more dangerous the Hurricanes were. Some of those penalty calls looked very, very dubious as well. I think some people are being very uncharitable to the Hurricanes after this game.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

How many of those linebreaks etc. came from Savea and Taylor?

There were definitely some stand out players for the Canes, but I think as a whole they were particularly average.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Is Andre Taylor a potential All Black? - every time I see him he is pure class

 

[nickdnz]

Is Andre Taylor a potential All Black? - every time I see him he is pure class

Ummm, a bit early to say to be honest. Last season he was behind Gear, Savea, Jane and Leiua (which is amazing). He played a bit off the left wing but was put back on the bench when Gear wasn't injured. Since moving to fullback with Cory Jane on the wing however he's been a very classy player, leading the competition in line breaks.

He may get a shot in the All Blacks if he continues this form all season, however he's looked best at fullback (where Dagg has pretty much got the jersey sewn up), and I think he'd be behind Jane, Gear, Guildford (sadly) on the wing, and I don't rate him as highly there anyway. It'd be interesting to see him in the All Blacks but I would like to see other wingers tested first. With that in mind he's got all the skills that the three wise men looked for in a good kicking game, good handling and good counter-attacking, so Hansen and Foster may well give him a shot.

 

[Gena_ZA]

yeah, I am referring to fullback

 

[Bull]

Andre Taylor reminds me a bit of Christian Cullen.

 

[DariusLovehall]

How many of those linebreaks etc. came from Savea and Taylor?

There were definitely some stand out players for the Canes, but I think as a whole they were particularly average.

I see the smiley but still ..... what does it matter which players made line breaks?


The stats kinda speak for themselves....

 

[donmcdazzle]

Andre Taylor reminds me a bit of Christian Cullen.

He has the same sort of knack for making long counter attacking runs. Although Taylor isn't fit to tie up Cully's training boots. He does score some awesome tries though, couple years ago for Manawatu he had some real goodies in the ITM cup.

 

[Larksea]

the main thing Taylor has going for him in terms of All Blacks selection is the fact Toeava is injured and Mills is overseas which means there are genuine openings in the All Blacks squad in this area.

Which means he's in a straight shootout to backup Dagg with Ben Smith, Cory Jane and even Robbie Robinson who's looking surprisingly good at the chiefs. Include Taylor and two maybe three of the 4 will be selected. It's early but in time I think Maitland will come into the picture. I do see him as a genuine selection candidate to cover fullback.

personally I'd select Ben Smith, and Jane will be close to a 100% selection if fit.

Wing is going to be interesting too, Rokocoko and Sivivatu out of the picture totally. These two have dominated wing selection for a long time.

By now the selectors will know that if they don't start Kahui at 13 they need to put him somewhere because he's too good to leave out and Jane should regain his top spot with Toeava injured. But behind these two there is a lot of interesting options. Gear and Guildford have a huge fight on their hands for spots. in Particular from Savea and Nanai-Williams but also Ben Smith and Maitland.

Utility is going to be a big factor which will hurt Gear and Savea.

 

[Dizzy]

To those who can't give credit where it is due [to the Canes of course], I think that is very poor of you. How can you say the Blues played better rugby and the Canes tries were based off luck. You should be faulting the Blues defense for letting in 4 tries. The Blues NEVER looked deadly in this match. The only time they looked dangerous was from behind the kicking tee when you knew in your heart that somehow the Canes were going to get penalised within kicking range.

This was classic Hurricanes rugby, expecting the unexpected!.

 

[nickdnz]

the main thing Taylor has going for him in terms of All Blacks selection is the fact Toeava is injured and Mills is overseas which means there are genuine openings in the All Blacks squad in this area.

Which means he's in a straight shootout to backup Dagg with Ben Smith, Cory Jane and even Robbie Robinson who's looking surprisingly good at the chiefs. Include Taylor and two maybe three of the 4 will be selected. It's early but in time I think Maitland will come into the picture. I do see him as a genuine selection candidate to cover fullback.

personally I'd select Ben Smith, and Jane will be close to a 100% selection if fit.

Wing is going to be interesting too, Rokocoko and Sivivatu out of the picture totally. These two have dominated wing selection for a long time.

By now the selectors will know that if they don't start Kahui at 13 they need to put him somewhere because he's too good to leave out and Jane should regain his top spot with Toeava injured. But behind these two there is a lot of interesting options. Gear and Guildford have a huge fight on their hands for spots. in Particular from Savea and Nanai-Williams but also Ben Smith and Maitland.

Utility is going to be a big factor which will hurt Gear and Savea.

I personally would select Dagg, Jane, Gear and Maitland. I think you have a nice mix in there. If Gear is to play, he has to start from the left wing. I don't think versatility should be really taken into account. I'd much rather have someone like Gear who is proven to be very good in his one position then a player who isn't as good but can fill more positions. I really wasn't a big fan of Toeava on the wing but he had the potential to be an amazing fullback if he could have been more consistant (and I think he's leaving to Japan soon anyway).

I can't see Savea getting a look in. He's looked very dangerous in his last few games, and on the whole has done pretty well with his fielding kicks, but he's definetly still quite a big gamble, especially compared to Maitland, Jane and Dagg who are all very well tested under the highball and can play fullback.

Anyway, so long as Guildford isn't selected I don't mind. It's actually been painful watching him so far. Every time he gets the ball for a counter attack, he runs it up, tries a poor sidestep, and then gets pushed back. When he's part of a link play he is very good, but he just doesn't seem able to initiate the counter attack (an area where Gear, Taylor, Dagg and Jane are all very good at).

 

[Larksea]

I don't think your too far off but why start Gear over Kahui? Kahui has taken every single chance he has been given for the All Blacks, including being arguably the best All Black back on the field in the WRC final last year and has never had a bad game. Gear has only looked good on one end of year tour in a team that pretty much dominated from 1-15 when he's been used in tri nations which is a step up he hasn't really looked looked the part and he tended to go missing for long periods of the game.

I think after last 2011 kahui will be one of the first names down in pen for selection, surely anyone outside jane, Dagg and Kahui will have to wait in line and take their chance as best they can if they get it.

Guildford has been pretty good so far but not awesome I agree. Actually in the chiefs game I though Zac looked the most dangerous of the Crusaders backs. But don't count him out, I think he's at his best running off Dan Carter and now Dan's back I think he will feature a lot more for the Crusaders.

Savea is a big call yes but with the world cup 3 years away if the coaches wanted a project that had the potential to pay off big time long term then Savea would be a pretty good option - his improvement from last year to this year is eye catching. You would have to say he would have been close to losing his super rugby contract from his poor form and this year he's hardly put a foot wrong and looks like the most powerful runner in the NZ game - I think even more so than Gear who has been the standard as far as power wingers go.

 

[William18]

Taylor reminds me a lot of Cory Jane. I used to think Jane was just a bit of a journeyman. A good player at super rugby level but one who didn't look like he could make the step up. He managed to turn into being one of the best all round wing the All Blacks have had for a while.

Definitely wouldn't pick Savea yet as impressive as he has been. I think if he got picked and he failed it would just destroy the confidence which he seems to be building up now. The best thing about Savea and maybe even Hammett/Ieremia is that they have worked really hard on his game. You can see he has been doing a lot of work under the high ball and it's paying off. If you had only seen Savea this season you wouldn't know that he was unreliable. His defence does still look suspect at times but I think he is a lot better at reading the play now.

 

[nickdnz]

I don't think your too far off but why start Gear over Kahui? Kahui has taken every single chance he has been given for the All Blacks, including being arguably the best All Black back on the field in the WRC final last year and has never had a bad game. Gear has only looked good on one end of year tour in a team that pretty much dominated from 1-15 when he's been used in tri nations which is a step up he hasn't really looked looked the part and he tended to go missing for long periods of the game.
I think after last 2011 kahui will be one of the first names down in pen for selection, surely anyone outside jane, Dagg and Kahui will have to wait in line and take their chance as best they can if they get it.
Guildford has been pretty good so far but not awesome I agree. Actually in the chiefs game I though Zac looked the most dangerous of the Crusaders backs. But don't count him out, I think he's at his best running off Dan Carter and now Dan's back I think he will feature a lot more for the Crusaders.
Savea is a big call yes but with the world cup 3 years away if the coaches wanted a project that had the potential to pay off big time long term then Savea would be a pretty good option - his improvement from last year to this year is eye catching. You would have to say he would have been close to losing his super rugby contract from his poor form and this year he's hardly put a foot wrong and looks like the most powerful runner in the NZ game - I think even more so than Gear who has been the standard as far as power wingers go.

I really like Richard Kahui but I don't like him as a wing option. Is he safe? Incredibly. He's got a good catching game, good kicking game, great defense and a high work rate. There is a lot to like about him on the wing. But I would still rather have a game breaking specialist and I don't think Kahui is it. There is no chance in my mind that Kahui will be the first choice winger in the 2015 World Cup. However I think Conrad Smith will be past it by then and Kahui is my favourite option to replace him (he'll be 30 by then). I think we'd be better off giving specialist wingers a shot, and it suits our game more as well.
In the World Cup Final and Semi-Final we scored two tries in total. We played it very safe and it paid off, but I think everyone can agree it wasn't our best flowing rugby. I see your point about "Kahui being too good to leave off the park", but some people say the same about putting SBW on the wing and I've never subscribed to that attitude. The best player in that position should be played in that position and in my mind that is still Hosea Gear on the left wing. Luckily he is able to play 11-15 so he is a very good utility option, especially with Toeava now out.

Taylor reminds me a lot of Cory Jane. I used to think Jane was just a bit of a journeyman. A good player at super rugby level but one who didn't look like he could make the step up. He managed to turn into being one of the best all round wing the All Blacks have had for a while.

Definitely wouldn't pick Savea yet as impressive as he has been. I think if he got picked and he failed it would just destroy the confidence which he seems to be building up now. The best thing about Savea and maybe even Hammett/Ieremia is that they have worked really hard on his game. You can see he has been doing a lot of work under the high ball and it's paying off. If you had only seen Savea this season you wouldn't know that he was unreliable. His defence does still look suspect at times but I think he is a lot better at reading the play now.

Agreed regarding Taylor looking like Cory Jane. I thought that when I saw him a few weeks ago. He just looks like he has plenty of time with the ball and can make those good counter attacking decisions. He doesn't have massive raw speed but he looks very ellusive (much like Jane). Both of them are working very well off eachother.

Also agree regarding Savea. No one likes big, powerful and fast wingers more than me (as is my love for Gear), but I think he's nicely building up his confidence and is working hard to fix his problems. I think if you threw him in and he had a poor game, or even wasn't selected the following test, you may well see him fade into obscurity. He may be looking more powerful than Gear at the moment, but I think Gear is the more finished article. The only problem with Gear is that he's 28 years old now, which is a shame he wasn't given more oppertunities. He'll be 32 come World Cup time which he may have lost some of his pace by then (or he could be like Sireli Bobo and be uber quick at 36).