Super League franchises

[jeffb]

Easy now peeps


Personally... if P&R had been retained rather than the licence system, then I think Celtic Crusaders would have been in SL in 1 or 2 years anyway and I for one think that they have gone the right way about it by going the NL route initially rather than the way the Catalan Dragons were granted immediate entry into SL.

I can understand Leigh's anger although I think that the Crusaders are the wrong target. There is no doubt (and IMO never has been) that expansion was always on the cards and the RFL SHOULD have made that clear right from the start and weighted the criteria slightly in favour of ONE expansion club ie Celtic or Toulouse whilst beong totally honest and saying that the remaining 13 spots would go to the best 13 bids but that current SL status would also be a major factor of consideration. I don't believe the best 14 licence bids have been chosen and I think a lot of leeway has been given to some clubs who should count themselves very, very fortunate to be in SL for the next 3 years.

Lets hope that the Crusaders can repay the faith shown in them.

[/b]

I would not have a problem if that had happened, at least they would have earned the right to get into SL.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

I agree with Vambo, everyone should be opening their broadside on Salford, not the Crusaders. Worst kept secret in the world that the RFL were looking to spread their wings.

 

[Bullitt]

Really disapointing about Salford, I'd have loved to see Richie Myler join his big brother had they failed...

 

[redunderthebed]

<div class='quotemain'>Oh and as people have said Widnes has got shafted again however its only 3 years that gives them three years to prepare tie up any loose ends satisfy the RFL complaints with there bid and be ready for 2011[/b]

Explain yourself with the "again."
[/b][/quote]



Well people claim that widnes got shafted when the super league was founded by not getting entry to it.



Not that i agree with it i just found it interesting i was always of the opinion that they werent good enough to do so.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

I was too young back then to understand the ins and outs of things like that. I thought you might have been on about 2004 when two teams were relegated instead of the usual one, was going to say that Widnes has no excuse as everyone knew that was coming.

 

[redunderthebed]

Nah, playoffs are bullshit money spinners designed to give the blazers an extra lining in their pockets during the drought of off season. All that happens is teams will reserve their big performances until a key point in the season when they can start a charge, then steal the ***le though a back door technicality *coughWaspscough*

At least the Super League actually awards the team who finishes top something, but the champions should be the side who win the league, not a side who couldn't be bothered and finished 4th. If they want to make a separate cup competition for those sides, fine, but don't call them "Champions".

The same goes for finishing bottom. If you finish there, you should go down and replaced with someone more deserving, not seen as perennially propping up the table on a cushion of nice, soft ring-fence. [/b]

That rarely rarely happens like that look at the EPL there are teams that are there simply to be there only reason the GP isnt like that is because relegation is rarely that cutthroat.

Whereas if you structure it properly with a finals system that is a reasonable goal for all clubs you will have a supremely competitive competition those teams that get repeated finals experience playing against the best, some will work there way to getting to the top of the ladder not just in the lower echelons of the finals ladder.

I was too young back then to understand the ins and outs of things like that. I thought you might have been on about 2004 when two teams were relegated instead of the usual one, was going to say that Widnes has no excuse as everyone knew that was coming. [/b]

Oh well i'm not interested in that i thought Castleford's was a travesty though.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotemain'> Nah, playoffs are bullshit money spinners designed to give the blazers an extra lining in their pockets during the drought of off season. All that happens is teams will reserve their big performances until a key point in the season when they can start a charge, then steal the ***le though a back door technicality *coughWaspscough*

At least the Super League actually awards the team who finishes top something, but the champions should be the side who win the league, not a side who couldn't be bothered and finished 4th. If they want to make a separate cup competition for those sides, fine, but don't call them "Champions".

The same goes for finishing bottom. If you finish there, you should go down and replaced with someone more deserving, not seen as perennially propping up the table on a cushion of nice, soft ring-fence. [/b]

That rarely rarely happens like that look at the EPL there are teams that are there simply to be there only reason the GP isnt like that is because relegation is rarely that cutthroat.

Whereas if you structure it properly with a finals system that is a reasonable goal for all clubs you will have a supremely competitive competition those teams that get repeated finals experience playing against the best, some will work there way to getting to the top of the ladder not just in the lower echelons of the finals ladder[/b][/quote]

:huh:

What the F are you on about? Last season, the domestic champions of both rugby codes in England were crowned without winning the league (Wasps and Leeds) whereas the teams who'd put in the hard slogs all season and EARNED the ***le of champions (St. Helens & Gloucester) walked away empty handed. All because of money-spinning playoff finals.

All this horsecrap about "making the top 22 out of 24 in the playoffs gives them something to aim for" is rubbish. If you want to be champions, you should finish top of the league, not render an entire seasons worth of competition to qualify for a 3 match knockout tournament just because some blazer wants a few quid before the off season.

As for relgation/promotion, that is the thing to promote winning teams. Frankly, I would find the must win for survival scenario much more of a kick up the arse to perform then some fat plum (who's probably never played a game in his life) telling me "ringfencing inspires free flowing rugby". No it doesn't, it inspires an attitude of "it doesn't matter", as regularly shown by the Irish ML sides every year up until they're dumped out of the HEC.

Winning the league makes teams strive to be at the top. Relegation makes teams strive to not be the worls. Ringfencing and playoffs are rugbys answer to the socialist UK govenments attitude of "10 year old kids aren't allowed to loose games of football, so all scores are reset to 0-0 at the end of the match".

Anyone who says otherwise is a communist,

 

[Vambo]

Oh dear.... The decision to admit the Crusaders doesn't please everyone...

Crusaders could spell end for Bridgend


THE century-old war between rugby union and rugby league was reignited last night when one of Wales’ most famous clubs warned they could face extinction.

Bridgend RFC, the team that produced Welsh greats like JPR Williams, Rob Howley, Gareth Thomas and Steve Fenwick, issued the stark message after the Celtic Crusaders were given Super League status.

Bridgend have historically been one of the biggest brands in Welsh rugby and the club have won countless trophies.

But director David Rees claims the advancement of the 13-man code in South Wales could spell the end.

Rees warns the Bridgend rugby union hotbed, which also produced modern-day icons Gavin Henson and Scott Gibbs, will see people start to turn towards rugby league instead.

He is calling for urgent talks with the WRU and the Ospreys, Bridgend’s umbrella region, to work out a way forward.

Bridgend’s warning comes hot on the heels of more good news for the Crusaders. Just 24 hours after they were granted Super League place, it was revealed they are planning a state-of-the-art 12,000-seater new home at Island Farm.

“We don’t wish rugby league any bad luck,†said Rees.

“But it is likely to be the death knell of the rugby union club in its current form.

“Their success is likely to be our demise.â€

Since the schism of 1895, brought about by the conflict between rugby’s amateur and professional status, the two codes have been split irreparably.

In Wales, with union the dominant force since then, the two games have never had to co-exist.

But, after the Crusaders earned their place among the rugby league elite less than three years since their formation, old wounds have been reopened.

Rees fears that the pendulum may have swung dramatically against his club, with devastating consequences for the future of the 15-man code in and around the Bridgend area.

And he is pleading with the powers-that-be to come to Bridgend’s aid, insisting the current grant from the WRU is nowhere near enough to run a semi-professional union side.

Rees said: “People say we can co-exist. We could if the income streams were there, but they are not.

“We have arranged a meeting with the WRU and the Ospreys to discuss our future. I’ve asked the WRU to treat us as a special case.

“If they want Premiership rugby to continue in Bridgend, they must come financially to our assistance.

“It is totally unrealistic to expect us to survive.

“The amount of support we currently receive does not warrant our carrying on.

“If we look at it as a business, it’s not viable.â€

Bridgend is one of the most famous names in Welsh rugby, with a history dating back 130 years.

Dozens of Welsh internationals have worn the blue and white shirt, including JPR, Howley, Thomas, Fenwick, John Devereux and Mike Hall.

As recently as five years ago, Alfie Thomas lifted the Premiership ***le at a packed Brewery Field.

But, with the profile of the Crusaders rising and rugby league making significant inroads into schools, Rees fears that impressive run could come to an abrupt end.

“We are a hotbed of rugby talent, have been for a fair time, and are likely to be so in the future,†he said.

“If they gift that area to rugby league, we will be very disappointed.

“Everything we’ve worked for will have been a complete waste of time.â€

To compound matters, the Crusaders look set to leave the Brewery Field.

The Ravens have paid rent over recent seasons, but the news that a purpose-built 12,000-seater stadium is in the pipeline for the league side could leave Bridgend RFC high and dry.

The Rugby Football League report which rubber-stamped the Crusaders’ application to join the Super League said: “While well maintained, the ground is limited and old-fashioned.

“In the medium term, the club recognises the need to develop a new facility and appears to be working with the local public agencies to deliver this.â€

Crusaders chief executive David Thompson confirmed: “We will be remaining at the Brewery Field in the short term. But we would like to click our fingers and have a new stadium.

“We’re already talking to people in the council and looking to put together a plan for a new community stadium.â€

Island Farm, a former prisoner-of-war camp, is already emerging as the preferred site.

But Rees stressed that Bridgend would not be prepared to ground-share or continue their current rental arrangement.

 

[redunderthebed]

Whilst i dont like seeing sporting teams of any code fall over blaming it on rugby league or seeing this as your impending doom when nothing has happened is lame.

Don't do it now........do it when it matters otherwise the WRU and the alike will go **** off your just trying to get more money.

Poor move on behalf of the club.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

It does seem to me to be rather convenient, but I don't like to see any club go bust, it's happened to enough league teams in the past.

 

[redunderthebed]

It does seem to me to be rather convenient [/b]

Yes and thats what i dont like if a club starts blaming others its usually the answer to there problems lie closer to home.

It blinds the clubs to its own fault if its goes down that route.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Cymro will probably be able to tell us lots more about the fall of Bridgend RU and be objective about it.

I don't see the Crusaders remaining in Bridgend in the longer term anyway. IF the club is a success I can see them moving further afield to Cardiff or Swansea. They'll need their own stadium though under the criteria for 2011.

 

[Bullitt]

The fall happened when the Celtic unions turned to regional franchises instead of having their own domestic league. Now that the Welsh league is about a valuable as Todd Carneys drivers license, no fans turn out to watch the games and the league has fallen apart.

CC will kill off all but the must die hard support in the area, but the WRU only have themselves to blame for ring fencing Welsh rugby union...

 

[Cymro]

Ok here goes ... some may not agree with me but I have good knowledge of the problems that have occured with Union and League down in South Wales.

Basically there has been a long rugby tradition in the 'Valleys' of Wales. Now Bridgend have produced their fair share of union talented players but what the WRU saw was that there were too many clubs in the area at the time pre-franchise in Wales. What the WRU saw and thought was that they wanted to merge and cull many of the professional sides because they could not afford to keep running them. They first turned to the Valley regions and decided that the likes of Bridgend, Ebbw Vale and Pontypridd would merge and become the 'Celtic Warriors'.

Now Bridgend RFC are now the Bridgend Ravens. The reason for this was that the chairman at the time who is now the chairman of the Celtic Crusaders, Leighton Samuel, owned the name of the Bridgend RFC and did not want to allow the name to carry on to exist. Now this is where it gets complicated. Samuels had basically felt that he had a raw deal with the emergence of the Celtic Warriors and the disbanding of them. He felt that Bridgend were big enough to stand on their own and compete like Llanelli, Cardiff and Newport did. However many did not feel this was right and as the WRU did they proceeded and emerged the Valley sides into the Celtic Warriors. However Bridgend were reportedly in a debt of £300,000 and the WRU argued it payed it to keep it afloat!

Leighton Samuel was pretty cheesed off at what had happened when the Celtic Warriors just fell apart. The Western Mail and in particular Andy Howell (rugby editor, who has no clue on either league or union) gave a scathling attack on Samuel and how he had dealt with the Bridgend and the Warriors. Leighton Samuel was made out to be the bad guy in all of this and to be fair he was not. He was pumping a hell of a lot of money into the club and basically got shafted. He basically said that he was then now willing to relsease the name of the Bridgend RFC for use in the Welsh Premiership.

Now what many do not realise about this Samuel had been quite crafty and decided that he would annoy the WRU further by this. In the end the WRU tried to come to an agreement with Samuel's but being crafy Leighton Samuel got his way and left the WRU trailling their dragon tail between their legs!

Now as soon as the Warriors vanished then Samuel was contacted into buying into the next best thing. The Celtic Crusaders. He was talked into making a Welsh based Valleys League team that would emerge in the Super League and to which he could prove the WRU wrong about rugby existing in the Valleys. Samuel had decided that if Union could not exist in the Valleys then League would thrive. His idea was great. He said he would see the Crusaders into the Super League, build a new stadium, bring in good players etc. And he has done the majority of that but he also promised the same with Bridgend RFC (to in fairness he did) and the Celtic Warriors. Now Leighton Samuel has promised a new stadium which is currently being proccessed at the council and its up to them whether they decide to allow the new stadium to exist.

But, Leighton Samuel has said in the past that if the Crusaders were to move away from the Valleys then he would instanly remove the funding from the club. Now it has been said he did the same to Bridgend RFC just before regionalisation and during it. Again I dont fully know even though I've asked many a person connected to the club and some of the best rugby journalists around. No one can confirm this was true but it was more than likely it was!

The Bridgend Ravens now rent the stadium off the Crusaders and more importantly Leighton Samuel. Now Samuel does not care what happens from what I gather to the Ravens but I must admit that they will be a sad sight to go if they do.

To be honest David Rees the director of the Ravens is a bit of a cock from what I gather. And I can tell you that both codes could easily exist in Bridgend. The fact of the matter the Crusaders need to head to Cardiff or Swansea. It will be easier to attract fans to games especially in Cardiff where people will go and watch any sport if its on! Getting to Cardiff and Swansea are far easier than getting to Bridgend and im afraid that Bridgend is a bit of a dump, so it would be the best to move it out of there, but then you lose the massive finacial backing of Leighton Samuel! Get me wrong from what I hear there are plenty of people willing to shovel money out if they need to!

To be fair tho attendances are getting up there now and when they are hitting crowds of around 6,000 its good. But if they get a new stadium I reckon more will come but even more will go to games if it was not in Bridgend!

If anything is unclear then im willing to explain further on any of the points I have made!

 

[St Helens RLFC]

What a fantastic post. The rep button is under Cymro's name. Click the plus.

 

[Cymro]

Hey no need for it, just expressing what I know and read of the situation!