Springbok watch

[TRF_stormer2010]

So since this is a RWC year I doubt Meyer will be tinkering overly much with what one could call an expected bok squad but for interest's sake, who do you fee are putting their hands up for Bok selection or are playing below par?

This is possibly a thread that'll only cme nto it's own in a few weeks' time particularly since the Cheetahs have ony had the one game but lets get the discussion started shall we?!

For my 2 cents, I think at lock Matfield has looked his age a tad while PS du Toit is building nicely and the Stormers' Ruan Botha has been building on a rock solid CC campaign. With him set to partner Eben Etzebeth I wouldn't be surprised to see him sneak into selection contention if he can continue impressing.

Staying with the Stormers (and why not- we are topping the log!!- okay, so I know it's early days still but) Vincent Koch has been impressive in the absence of Bok incumbent but ever-injured team mate Frans Malherbe. Suddenly I am not so anxious about the rumors French clubs are head hunting Malherbe. He has got the rub of it over two test loose heads in two weeks (Nyakane and Woodcock) and will have his chance to redeem the Stormers scrum against the Lions who destroyed us in the CC final at scrum time but could not make it count (with Boshoff's 2/7 at goal) and then an the much vaunted Sharks scrum (fresh off dismantling the Lions scrum themselves). Again, only time will tell but I'm excited and Im not alone I am sure.

Still waiting to see more of Danie Minie and Thomas du Toit is sdaly not getting his share at teh Sharks ATM.

Onto to current Bokke. Lambie and Pollard have both impressed. Lambie's maturity is showing through big time now though and I'd have him as the Bok starting pivot.

Marcell Coetzee and Vermeulen aren't resting on their laurels one bit. Theirs would be the first names penned onto the teamsheet if I were to take possession of HM's psyche but I wouldn't.

Anyone care to weigh in or too early still?

Compulsory SA form XV

1 D Minie
2 good competition here
3 V Koch
4 PS du Toit
5 R Botha
6 M Coetzee
7 R Elstadt (but hs out for the season now...)
8 D Vermeulen
9 C Reinach (pity Hougaard isn't being afforded the opportunity to settle at 9)
10 P Lambie
11 erm, probably Lleyds taking his chances well but nothing overly great from the SA wingers yet
12 no real stars in the centers for me yet
13 see above
14 meh
15 SP Marais (I have to admit after two rounds but Le Roux, Kriel and Kolbe are in in the race and have doe good tings)

 

[TRF_heineken]

A bit early don't you think?

Some guys haven't even played yet.

Also I'm waiting to see who will return from abroad. I see Schalk is back already next week, and I hear Fourie Du Preez might also be coming back earlier than expected.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It's early, yes buuut that makes a correct 'prediction' so much more impressive!

FdP back early? Playing for which team- the Bulls? That'd mean you'd be messing up 3 of SA's best halfbacks!

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's early, yes buuut that makes a correct 'prediction' so much more impressive!

FdP back early? Playing for which team- the Bulls? That'd mean you'd be messing up 3 of SA's best halfbacks!

Haha, a bit harsh don't you think??

Also I can see Hougaard playing scrumhalf this weekend with both Ndungane and Ismaiel back from injury for the Bulls.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

1/4 of the way now and the Cheetahs have had had 3 goes at it.

My updates:

1
2
3 I'm still with Vincent Koch. Him and Malherbe had it over the Sharks' scrum. It's good for the Stormers to have the two best scrumming TH's in SA
4
5
6 Marcell Coetzee still even if the Stormers had him covered
7 Warren Whiteley - very close between him and Labuschagne but he has the better tackle % (61/62 vs 67/70- bit of a much over muchness I know!) and though it's close elsewhere as well Whiteley shades it in carrying and is a huge boost at the line-out having taking 10 and leading the competition in steals.
8 Duane Vermeulen ând by some distnce
9 Cobus Reinach still a ways ahead of the competition though Hougaard playing out of position helps his cause. I am becoming a big fan of Groom though. He had another great game on the weekend and though he got a yellow card it was certainly worth it as he stopped a try and the Sharks didn't make up for it in those ten minutes
10 Sjoe.. can't split Handre Pollard and Pat Lambie now though Pollard probably has the edge. Lambie had the early rounds but Pollard has made up the ground and then some.. both are **** hot right now and how good is that for SA!
11 Dillyn Lleyds - more defenders beaten, clean breaks and running meters than the competition and a 100% (19/19) tackle success rate to boot (as well as the benefit of being sturdy under the high ball and a kick return option)
12 Damian de Allende. Made a joke of a Sharks/Bok midfield containing Steyn and JPP.
13 I was thinking it'd be between De Jongh and Serfontein but the stats cry out Lionel Mapoe.
14
15 A 3 horse race here between Cheslin Kolbe, Jesse Kriel and Marais. First up Kriel vs Marais; in 50 less minutes and 6 less carries he has made equal meters and defenders beaten but double the clean breaks- Kriel the winner. Kolbe has close to similar stats to Kriel but one less DB/CB and Kriel has a try assist over Kolbe. Strangly though the smaller man has made 100% of his tackles vs Kriels' 68% and has lost his team posession 1 less time. it's even IMO. Le Roux is a strange one for me at this stage- three full game and he hasn't beaten any defenders or made any breaks but 5!! try assists! Weird! A play maker rather than a ballrunner it seems? Le Roux conceding posession 3 times a game though... troubling! That'll lose us games in tests.

Those were the obvious ones. I'll update later. What do you guys think?


Pollard vs Lambie;
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[TRF_heineken]

Okay, let me jump in.

here's my picks after the first 4 rounds:

1. Morne Mellett
2. Adriaan Strauss, it's between him and Torsten van Jaarsveld. Bissie is not performing well, the Stormers and the Lions keeps on swapping out their hookers, so based on consistency I have to go with Strauss.
3. Coenie Oosthuizen, It looks like he is starting to get it right at scrum time, and he still does the other things very well. Koch would be my second choice.
4. Jacques Du Plessis (Skaap), He has made the change to lock, and he has been very good at that role, without being the enforcer as such, because it seems like Victor is doing that now...
5. Pieter-Steph Du Toit, with the old guy Vic behind him. PSDT is a beast!!
6. Marcell Coetzee.
7. It's between Lappies and Mohoje for me. Lappies is just a tackling machine, and if he could join up with proper fetchers, the Boks would have ample ball to play with.
8. Duane Vermeulen, followed by Warren Whiteley
9. Cobus Reinach, followed by Sarel Pretorius
10. Handre Pollard, followed by Lambie and Joe Pietersen
11. Ruan Combrinck
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Damian De Allende
14. Bjorn Basson, how good is this guy in the air. I am thinking that based on what happened last year during the EOYT games, it might be a great idea to play him, and then we won't get yellow cards.
15. Jesse Kriel and Cheslin Kolbe. Although Willie Le Roux is getting back to being his best.

 

[ENZED-88]

You boys think pollard is the guy to lead around the boks come RWC?

 

[TRF_heineken]

You boys think pollard is the guy to lead around the boks come RWC?

Well it's a tussle between him and Lambie. They are the 2 that will go to the World Cup, if they don't pick up any injuries.

If both of them keep their current form, then it's a case of coaching preference of who will start and who will be on the bench...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You boys think pollard is the guy to lead around the boks come RWC?

With both Pollard and Lambie in fine form (certainly the best form we've seen from SA 01s in an age) I am very optimistic. I see Pollard as the certain first choice post 2015 and as the one with the most potential of the two. If the RWC was tomorrow though I'd go with Lambie as right now I think he is that little more maturedependable and has a slight edge in game management which will be important even if I think Pollard has the rest and is gaining good ground in his tactical awareness as well. It's some time to the RWC though and plenty can happen form wise and with both partial to taking on the line injury wise as well. I'm sure it'll be clearer closer to the tournament. I guess what I'm trying to say is Lambie right now for me but if Meyer decides to back the 20 year old I'll not blame him the 'gamble'.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, let me jump in.

here's my picks after the first 4 rounds:

1. Morne Mellett
2. Adriaan Strauss, it's between him and Torsten van Jaarsveld. Bissie is not performing well, the Stormers and the Lions keeps on swapping out their hookers, so based on consistency I have to go with Strauss.
3. Coenie Oosthuizen, It looks like he is starting to get it right at scrum time, and he still does the other things very well. Koch would be my second choice.
4. Jacques Du Plessis (Skaap), He has made the change to lock, and he has been very good at that role, without being the enforcer as such, because it seems like Victor is doing that now...
5. Pieter-Steph Du Toit, with the old guy Vic behind him. PSDT is a beast!!
6. Marcell Coetzee.
7. It's between Lappies and Mohoje for me. Lappies is just a tackling machine, and if he could join up with proper fetchers, the Boks would have ample ball to play with.
8. Duane Vermeulen, followed by Warren Whiteley
9. Cobus Reinach, followed by Sarel Pretorius
10. Handre Pollard, followed by Lambie and Joe Pietersen
11. Ruan Combrinck
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Damian De Allende
14. Bjorn Basson, how good is this guy in the air. I am thinking that based on what happened last year during the EOYT games, it might be a great idea to play him, and then we won't get yellow cards.
15. Jesse Kriel and Cheslin Kolbe. Although Willie Le Roux is getting back to being his best.

I think we have the same in mind for most positions (form wise). I shifted Whiteley from 8 but am also picking Lappies if you are keeping strictly to positions.
I havn't watched all the Bulls' games so'll take your word on Strauss, Du Plessis and Mellett. If no-one else cares to weigh in I think we have near enough of a consensus.

I'd push for Lleyds and Koch though. On Lleyds, I have a paragraph up on why I rate him. Koch vs Oosthuizen. Interestingly enough- the scrum aside- Koch and Oosthuizen have played 238 and 239 minutes respectively and I'd argue Koch in the tighter games (with Malherbe coming n when things get more open in the last parts of the last two games and the Stormers just play a tighter game than the Cheetahs). In the same time Oosthuizen, while having close to double the amount of carries gives away 1 clean break, 1 defender beaten and an effective off load to Koch. Then, Koch has a 5% better tackle % without giving away too much in workrate, hasn't lost posession while Coenie has 4 times and is just a better scrummiger I'd wager.

That said us discussing Koch vs Coenie with Marcell van der Merwe, Redelinghuys and Malherbe either injured or just returning shows the 1st world problems we now have at tight have. Koch besting Tony Woodcock is just the icing on the cake for me. Surely Janiie's days are numbered? We must just keep hold of these guys. Rumors say Malherbe is off to France... the Sharks need a good tight head- I wuldn't begrudge them Malherbe or Koch and I'm sure you'd give up one of Nyakane or Van der Merwe? LOL

 

[TRF_heineken]

With both Pollard and Lambie in fine form (certainly the best form we've seen from SA 01s in an age) I am very optimistic. I see Pollard as the certain first choice post 2015 and as the one with the most potential of the two. If the RWC was tomorrow though I'd go with Lambie as right now I think he is that little more maturedependable and has a slight edge in game management which will be important even if I think Pollard has the rest and is gaining good ground in his tactical awareness as well. It's some time to the RWC though and plenty can happen form wise and with both partial to taking on the line injury wise as well. I'm sure it'll be clearer closer to the tournament. I guess what I'm trying to say is Lambie right now for me but if Meyer decides to back the 20 year old I'll not blame him the 'gamble'.

- - - Updated - - -



I think we have the same in mind for most positions (form wise). I shifted Whiteley from 8 but am also picking Lappies if you are keeping strictly to positions.
I havn't watched all the Bulls' games so'll take your word on Strauss, Du Plessis and Mellett. If no-one else cares to weigh in I think we have near enough of a consensus.

I'd push for Lleyds and Koch though. On Lleyds, I have a paragraph up on why I rate him. Koch vs Oosthuizen. Interestingly enough- the scrum aside- Koch and Oosthuizen have played 238 and 239 minutes respectively and I'd argue Koch in the tighter games (with Malherbe coming n when things get more open in the last parts of the last two games and the Stormers just play a tighter game than the Cheetahs). In the same time Oosthuizen, while having close to double the amount of carries gives away 1 clean break, 1 defender beaten and an effective off load to Koch. Then, Koch has a 5% better tackle % without giving away too much in workrate, hasn't lost posession while Coenie has 4 times and is just a better scrummiger I'd wager.

That said us discussing Koch vs Coenie with Marcell van der Merwe, Redelinghuys and Malherbe either injured or just returning shows the 1st world problems we now have at tight have. Koch besting Tony Woodcock is just the icing on the cake for me. Surely Janiie's days are numbered? We must just keep hold of these guys. Rumors say Malherbe is off to France... the Sharks need a good tight head- I wuldn't begrudge them Malherbe or Koch and I'm sure you'd give up one of Nyakane or Van der Merwe? LOL

They can take Werner Kruger.

With V/D Merwe and Nyakane we are good. And I caught the Vodacom Cup game between the Bulls and the Falcons on Friday, and Thomas Du Toit's U/20 scrum partner for the Baby Boks is doing very well... We also have Hencus van Wyk. So I think it's time we get rid of the dead weight. Kruger and Dean Greyling, both can go IMHO.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

PSdT out of the RWC according to this article below;

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Du-Toits-RWC-dream-in-tatters-20150316

I am devastated for the lad. The workrate, versatility and quality he brings to the lock position is ideally suited to the modern game. The Bokke have been missing him. So, Matfield it is and perhaps it opens the door for Du Plessis? Lewies has been out for a while also and Ruan Botha has been on and off with injury as well even though I wouldn't fast track him for the RWC. So many good locks but it seems there is an asterisk next to every name. I wonder if HM wouldn't consider one our boys based in Europe. I've been following Racing Metro closely and both Kruger and Flip's brother Francois have been performing at a very high level on a consistent basis. It's no coincidence they are top of the ECC log. Etzebeth should be back after the bye for the Stormers but I hope they don't rush him.

Elsewhere in the tight 5, I am still on Koch as a bolter for the TH prop spot and it's not just his scrummaging though that alone should make him a real candidate. The Stormers' dominance at the scrum (before substitutions) was one of if not the only positive for the Stormers against the Chiefs on the weekend.

Jesse Kriel is now my form SA 15 despite not playing what with Kolbe and Le Roux underwhelming in their last games. Pollard and Reinach still my pick for the halves. Strauss still the form hooker though Bismarck always steps it up for big tests and he has the higher ceiling IMO so I would keep him as 1st choice for the RWC. Alberts is a tough one. Also a guy who shines at test level rather than in the more open SR but man, Marcel Coetzee is on fire! Louw is going to find it tough to get back in! Vermeulen is an automatic selection and surely so is De Allende at this stage alongside Serfontein? Frans Steyn had a better night out against the Cheetahs but supposedly he has confirmed he is unavaiable for Bok duty so that is a moot point? I am yet to be wowed with our wingers. Having watched the likes of Savea, Lowe, Heem, Naholo, TNW, Piutau, Visinia etc etc... our wings just don't compare. Habana is a surety and Hendricks has been decent enough but.. same old same old I guess.

 

[TRF_heineken]

PSdT out of the RWC according to this article below;

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Du-Toits-RWC-dream-in-tatters-20150316

I am devastated for the lad. The workrate, versatility and quality he brings to the lock position is ideally suited to the modern game. The Bokke have been missing him. So, Matfield it is and perhaps it opens the door for Du Plessis? Lewies has been out for a while also and Ruan Botha has been on and off with injury as well even though I wouldn't fast track him for the RWC. So many good locks but it seems there is an asterisk next to every name. I wonder if HM wouldn't consider one our boys based in Europe. I've been following Racing Metro closely and both Kruger and Flip's brother Francois have been performing at a very high level on a consistent basis. It's no coincidence they are top of the ECC log. Etzebeth should be back after the bye for the Stormers but I hope they don't rush him.

Elsewhere in the tight 5, I am still on Koch as a bolter for the TH prop spot and it's not just his scrummaging though that alone should make him a real candidate. The Stormers' dominance at the scrum (before substitutions) was one of if not the only positive for the Stormers against the Chiefs on the weekend.

Jesse Kriel is now my form SA 15 despite not playing what with Kolbe and Le Roux underwhelming in their last games. Pollard and Reinach still my pick for the halves. Strauss still the form hooker though Bismarck always steps it up for big tests and he has the higher ceiling IMO so I would keep him as 1st choice for the RWC. Alberts is a tough one. Also a guy who shines at test level rather than in the more open SR but man, Marcel Coetzee is on fire! Louw is going to find it tough to get back in! Vermeulen is an automatic selection and surely so is De Allende at this stage alongside Serfontein? Frans Steyn had a better night out against the Cheetahs but supposedly he has confirmed he is unavaiable for Bok duty so that is a moot point? I am yet to be wowed with our wingers. Having watched the likes of Savea, Lowe, Heem, Naholo, TNW, Piutau, Visinia etc etc... our wings just don't compare. Habana is a surety and Hendricks has been decent enough but.. same old same old I guess.

That is a very premature article!

The guy is only going in for the scans today. And it didn't look that bad on Saturday, he walked off the field. I think we must wait and see what the Sharks officially say before the naysayers all come to roost.

I Agree on all parts you've mentioned. The wings are a bit of a worry(ish), but they don't get so much ball to wow us. It's still early.

 

[Icemn]

so SA only has 2 options at flyhalf? what if lambie and pollard are both unavailable come RWC? or only 1 is, who else?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

so SA only has 2 options at flyhalf? what if lambie and pollard are both unavailable come RWC? or only 1 is, who else?

Ons gaan haal nie bobbejane agter die berg uit nie. But if we have too and if that happens then we'll have to play to the forwards and win that way. This is RWC rugby in Europe. We can win with either of the two Steyns, Pienaar, Goosen, Boshoff, hell, anybody with a decent boot at 10 but then we'd also have to have a solid defensive backline. A RWC can be won that way- in fact, it has been every single time. Just look at both the All Blacks' finals wins- hardly champagne rugby. Pollard and Lambie being fit and in form is a bonus.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That is a very premature article!

The guy is only going in for the scans today. And it didn't look that bad on Saturday, he walked off the field. I think we must wait and see what the Sharks officially say before the naysayers all come to roost.

I Agree on all parts you've mentioned. The wings are a bit of a worry(ish), but they don't get so much ball to wow us. It's still early.

What did I tell you, @TRF_stormer2010??

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Good-news-on-Du-Toits-injury-20150318

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Certainly good news. I wonder whether he'll get a game or two SR before the RC. I rate him higher than current Matfield at this stage but I can't see HM through back into the deep end off the bat (and rightly so).