Split loyalties

[TRF_Cymro]

England Saxons coach Stuart Lancaster was this week forced to defend the national side's increasing reliance on overseas-born players following the selection of South African lock Mouritz Botha in their Churchill Cup squad.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/140857.html​

 

[SoRadical]

The IRB direly need to tighten up their eligibility rules. The frequency of headlines like, "Leinster sign South African Sykes, could become Irish qualified " worries me. At bare minimum players should have a grandparent who hails from the said country in order to play for it.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Grannygate will forever live with me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Grannygate will forever live with me.

Makes you sound like you had a Wayne Rooney-esque experience :lol:

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Makes you sound like you had a Wayne Rooney-esque experience :lol:

 

[lucky number 7]

Shrek should have declared for us...Not that he is beautiful enough to set foot on a field alongside Kevin Doyle however

 

[Shaggy]

I'm not sure what can be done about this ... maybe if you have citizenship instead of 3 year residency, or parents rather than grand parents from the country they want to play for

 

[Conal]

the thing i dont get is how do players like m botha, fourie flutey . ( residancy players>>>and not from childhood residancy) what really dont get is with these guys its not like they moved when they where little and feel part of the nation there in they are plaers who moved already in there career. i understand they want to play the highest level possible but do they consider themselves english then??

sorry quite tired from school work if this makes little sense

 

[Shaggy]

the thing i dont get is how do players like m botha, fourie flutey . ( residancy players>>>and not from childhood residancy) what really dont get is with these guys its not like they moved when they where little and feel part of the nation there in they are plaers who moved already in there career. i understand they want to play the highest level possible but do they consider themselves english then??

sorry quite tired from school work if this makes little sense

Yep, some sort of commitment to the adopted country other than rugby, like they are going to live there after they finish playing, so citizenship is probably a good way to go, or some sort of cultural attachment to the country, such as parents from the country.

 

[Logorrhea]

Well from an Irish point of view, if we cant beat em, we may as well join em.

I'm not a fan of it, but Ireland are right to recruit (and thats exactly what it is) based on the 3 year rule. At the moment we are looking to Irelandise Payne, Sykes, Strauss, and Borlaise (eh no.......). I believe Diach is Irish qualified around now.

 

[Conal]

im fine with peoples parents and grand parents being used so they can play for a country as lots of people i knowconsider them selves second generation somthing or somthing decent

however i think its wrong to recruit players even if strauss, diack, sykes are bteer or become better than the incumbent irish player there not irish
how can they represent ireland?
what about the anthems the rivalry not just the quality of players that makes test match's special

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Could Mafi play for Ireland?
I don't think he's been capped by NZ (or does 7s count?) and he's been in Ireland for what seems like ages now

 

[Conal]

svens does count as senior caps i think

i beleive thats what did paul warick in for being ireland qualified

 

[TRF_Cymro]

7s caps count

 

[iWin]

Would it be that hard to say that after the age of 16 or so, residency rules can no longer apply?
That'd allow for people who move to a country at an early age, and so consider themselves to be English/ Welsh/ Australian etc without having any other link to the country.
If someone moved to a country at the age of 10 and grew up there, I see no problem with them representing that country. The problem arises when someone moves there at 24 because they want to get a shot at international rugby.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This could work - decide what age you're an adult (16/18) and say if you move to a country before then you can represent them, afterwards nope

 

[iWin]

Exactly. You could use Manu Tuilagi as the example there. He's grown up in England and gone through the english academy system, and so in my opinion should be allowed to play for england.
Hape has not. He should not.

 

[Shaggy]

Exactly. You could use Manu Tuilagi as the example there. He's grown up in England and gone through the english academy system, and so in my opinion should be allowed to play for england.
Hape has not. He should not.

Tuilagi could probably apply for, and be accepted as, an English citizen couldn't he? - anyway, I agree, England is the country that has put all of the work into his development, so of course he should be allowed to play for England. I guess Thomas Waldrom is a different extreme of the equation ... he didn't even know that he had English grand parents, and had to ask his mum ... i'm not sure that he has ever identified himself as being English, or had any cultural links to England, but the rules are the rules I guess

... I'm not picking on Thomas (just using him as an example), i'm sure there are plenty of other players representing other countries that are in the same boat.

I've got no problem with adults emigrating to another country, and playing for them, at least if you get citizenship, it's a better indication that you are committed to the country, and that you want to live there long term ... residency seems to be less of a commitment to the country in my opinion, so to use the Hape example, can he really consider himself a new Englishman? If not, why should he play for England (once again, an example ... not picking on Hape or England for picking him)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hape shouldn't be allowed in an England shirt for the following reason:

He has already represented New Zealand in an international sport.
I've said on threads in the past, about this/Hape, that a player should be country locked for any sport, especially two so closely linked as League/Union.

 

[Shaggy]

Hape shouldn't be allowed in an England shirt for the following reason:

He has already represented New Zealand in an international sport.
I've said on threads in the past, about this/Hape, that a player should be country locked for any sport, especially two so closely linked as League/Union.

Hmmn ... I don't know, it's hard to see the various sports agreeing on this ... if the IRB imposed the ban and league didn't, you'd just see players playing union for one country first and then league for another

... I don't think league even restricts players from representing more than one country at league does it?