Spencer Returns to NZ!

[Dmx#1]

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What does Montgomery and Spencer have in common? Theyre both grossly overrated.[/b]

Spencer isn't over-rated, he has shown that he doesn't have the bottle to show up in the important games and is far too mercurial, whoever rates him very highly obviously has a short memory, WC semi 03.

I reckon Montgomery is class, has had a large playing career, has won games for his team heaps of times, solid boot, doesn't have a high mistake rate....he's quality, you could clearly see about a few years ago what the Boks missed when he was not playing....
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Lol anyone who says it wasnt his fault (or he shouldnt take a lot of the blame) in the wc 2003 overrate him in my eyes. Including people who harp on about his skills and/or refer to him as 'King Carlos' thats what I call overrated. Trust me there have been people past who feel this way about him on this forum.

Montgomery = meh. His attack and Defence was average and the only thing he had was decent goal kicking skills. The reason why I said he is overrated is because Montgomery fans who said he was the best must of suffered amnesia because they forgot about Latham,Mills, J Robinson and Hermandez. I watched that London Irish and Perpigan (That how you spell it?) a while back and he was pretty much non existent throughout the game.

 

[Bullitt]

I know I started this thread as a pisstake, but ref the point about the WC 03, that one Mortlock intercept doesn't make him over-rated. I recall there being 14 other ABs on the pitch at that point, why did none of them not make the tackles to kep Aus out of the game up until that point?

Over-rated is being touted as the worlds best, after sitting in an armchair behind the worlds best pack for 2 years, then taking all the glory for your team-mates hard work by sloting a DG when you've had an overall crap Tournament. *coughWilkinsoncough*

Spencer is what he is and rated for what he is... A player who (depending who's around him) can guide you to a 100 point win or a 150 point loss. Michelak is exactly the same but nobody throws these "over-rated" comments at him.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Well I have watched Carlos since he came on he scene AGAINST Auckland in the early 90's.....and he would be in the same class as Gareth Edwards if he had just a little bit more pace and especially acceleration. Apart from that he has always been a First Five with great show boating skills which when on song can produce some amazing results....but when he is off it is all downhill. Therefore he is very much like David Campese.

Like Campese did our Spencer needs very good players around him to keep the team afloat and to give him the platform to produce his moments of magic that will WORK. He is not a match winner....he is the guy who helps the real match winners do their stuff. This is the problem because if he stuffs up then the match winners in the team will be on the back foot and they will lose...probably badly as well.

When the Blues won in 2003 they had a pack that was extremely hungry and backs who were on fire with Mils in his prime and Gear and Rokocoko beginning to find their feet...and they had the match winner Caucaunibuca doing his stuff. Carlos did his usual risky stuff and the team were good enough to finish it off.

 

[DasPadi]

When Spencer gets it right he is pure class. Looking forward to him coming back to the Premiership, he's always worth watching

 

[springbok90]

as a south african i can only tell u how much spencer annoyed me! still a good player, doesnt have all round game like carter but still a good play maker

 

[Gay-Guy]

as a south african i can only tell u how much spencer annoyed me! still a good player, doesnt have all round game like carter but still a good play maker [/b]

Yeah strange that...Spencers best games were against the Springboks (1997, 2003) and his worse games were against the Wallabies (2003). Strangely enough Merhtens best games were against the Wallabies (1996, 2000) and his worse were against the Springboks (1995, 1999).

Spencers sidesteps seemed to work best against the Springboks for some strange reason.

Semcers best season could be argued as either with the Auckland NPC team of 1996, the Blues of 1997.....or probably the Blues and almost All Blacks of 2003. Some of the games the Blues played that year were amazing....the one against Carter and the Crusaders...the game against a Reds team who looked like they were a junior club side trying to stop the Blues onslaught.

 

[Jer1cho]

A bit off topic, what happened to Christian Cullen? He was the best fullback ever imho. He just sort of quietly disappeared... But man, that guy was a destroyer of teams. Absolute icon. If there had to be an all time All Black team, with guys like Zinzan Brooke, Frank Bunce, Cullen, Lomu, Carter, Mcaw, Kronfeld(spelling?) .... I can't begin to imagine the power.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!

 

[Gay-Guy]

A bit off topic, what happened to Christian Cullen? He was the best fullback ever imho. He just sort of quietly disappeared... But man, that guy was a destroyer of teams. Absolute icon. If there had to be an all time All Black team, with guys like Zinzan Brooke, Frank Bunce, Cullen, Lomu, Carter, Mcaw, Kronfeld(spelling?) .... I can't begin to imagine the power.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!! [/b]

Cullen had a leg injury and couldn't cut it anymore so went up north to quitely see out his career and earn his final paycheck.

Zinny was not gonna make it to 1999 so went up north for his final paycheck.

Frank was dropped after it was found out that he had plans to go up north to finish his career with a pay check.

Lomu was overcome by his condition despite surgery etc.



I actually think Kronfield was better than McCaw. Though I have also rated George Smith as better than McCaw.

 

[nam97]

I actually think Kronfield was better than McCaw. Though I have also rated George Smith as better than McCaw.
[/b]

:mellow: ah.... er... :mellow: hmmm... :mellow: ..........................



Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but I couldn't disagree any greater. McCaw is better than Michael Jones ever was, who in turn trumped Kronfeld in every department. Remember when Jones left? And even with Kronfeld we always talked about how great Jones was? Now with McCaw those two guys never get a mention.

I rate George Smith higher than Kronfeld also.

To be perfectly honest, after living the last 5 years or so of my life watching McCaw and Smith it has lead me to belive Kronfeld was rather average.

'Tis just me though.

 

[Caledfwlch]

Another 10 years down the road, someone else will come along and trump McCw. Then, we will all look back and realise how average Captain Tackles really was

 

[Number10]

Richie McCaw is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same light as Michael Jones. In a lot peoples opinions Michael Jones is the greatest flanker/player to ever play the game and in a recent poll he finished well ahead of McCaw. McCaw is good but I think he and Dan Carter are the definition of over rated, both can have awful games and nobody mentions there mistakes yet someone else like Ma'a Nonu get crucified. Michael Jones had more speed, strength, brains and skill. I think that Schalk Burger, Luke Watson and George Smith are all better than McCaw. If the other three played for the All Blacks everyone would say that they were the worlds best.

Note: Of these guys I have only ever seen McCaw get flipped horizontally by a fend and on a few occasions.

 

[jk885]

yeah i saw nonu throw mccaw off with a fend this year.

 

[Bullitt]

It's such a shame when players reach a certain standard or level, that should they ever make a single mistake they will then forever get branded as average or over-rated from all angles.

The McCaw bashing is all because he's been handed off or tackled a few times in his career. Well **** a brick- a rugby player getting tackled you say?!?! McCaw is the best 7 in the world no matter what anyone says, look at what he gets away with, look at his average number of turnovers won per match, look at his overall work-rate... Nobody else is even close. History may have 'better stats', but different eras produce different players and you can only play whats in front of you.

Or, what about Spencer after the Mortlock intercept of 2003... He was branded as over-rated and crap because of that, despite nigh-on single handedly orchestrating NZ's journey to the semi-final. What would have happened had Marshall not farted about getting the ball out of the ruck and delivered quick service before the Aussie line could form up? What if Macdonald hadn't drifted so wide as to force the speculative pass instead of leaving Spencer isolated. What if that had been the actual try that settled the game instead of an early one only 9 minutes in? Nope. Lambasting a great player as average and over-rated is much easier.

So many get it n'all... Dawson, Rodber, Back, Tana, Eels (unbelievably), Krige, Joost, Williams, Patterson. I even heard some idiot start on Buck Shelford the other day.