Scotland World Cup Squad

[retired9]

Well it's finally Ireland week and, after the Romania game going as we needed it to there is a tiny glimour of hope in the distance. As AIRums succinctly put it, Scotland need to beat Ireland by 8-0 to go through....

Selection wise there were a few in the Romania game who have put themselves on the radar IMO, Watson was very good and seemed to have his carrying boots on again, Healy was very solid and kicked perfectly which should not go uunnoticed, Redpath and Harris also looked OK in the centre as well although I don't think they are the answer for Ireland.

 

[retired9]

To take a tangent for a moment.....

What do we think Scotlands biggest limitations are? I am a fan of Townsend, he is an incredibly astute coach, clever tactically and very understated about it in front of the press. He has had to learn and evolve a lot from the beginning, mistakes were made, players weren't up to the level he needed for his style but, now it seems to be coming together.

Our player pool is small, we know that and it's resulted in the residency players getting a shout (which I have no issue with at all). Is it just down to the SRU being incompetent as they have been for decades? Not serious enough about the sport?

For a country of our size with 2 pro teams, I suppose we are probably currently punching a bit above our weight really. Ireland, Wales and NZ all have more clubs and more players behind them so to be 5/6th in the world is pretty respectable in many ways.

From a proffesional sport point of view, I'd love to know how we can push on, obviously beating and even knocking out Ireland on Saturday would rattle many cages....

Would be nice to go into the 2024 6N with a bit of evidence that we are capable of winning it!

 

[General Melchett]

To take a tangent for a moment.....

What do we think Scotlands biggest limitations are? I am a fan of Townsend, he is an incredibly astute coach, clever tactically and very understated about it in front of the press. He has had to learn and evolve a lot from the beginning, mistakes were made, players weren't up to the level he needed for his style but, now it seems to be coming together.

Our player pool is small, we know that and it's resulted in the residency players getting a shout (which I have no issue with at all). Is it just down to the SRU being incompetent as they have been for decades? Not serious enough about the sport?

For a country of our size with 2 pro teams, I suppose we are probably currently punching a bit above our weight really. Ireland, Wales and NZ all have more clubs and more players behind them so to be 5/6th in the world is pretty respectable in many ways.

From a proffesional sport point of view, I'd love to know how we can push on, obviously beating and even knocking out Ireland on Saturday would rattle many cages....

Would be nice to go into the 2024 6N with a bit of evidence that we are capable of winning it!

Agree with all of that.

Our pack used to be powder puff and was routinely bullied by the other home nations but Townsend has definitely made big strides here. I'm still not happy with some of our set piece particularly line out and more competition for Zander would improve depth. We would benefit greatly from having a lock who can carry and has a bit of dog in him IMO.

Our midfield has also improved greatly since Huwpolotu have come in. Redpath looked good albeit against Romania who are poor but at some point I'd like to see Redpath and Sione (moved to 13) tried as a possible Plan B. They haven't really been tried together but I think could be great combo.

We're massive underdogs this weekend but I like the low key approach to the game. Even John Barclay who usually waxes lyrical about Scotland is saying that Ireland always deliver and are heavy favourites. Just let the Irish do the talking about past results and how they're favourites etc. A competitive performance should see us go into the 6N with optimism. Yes exiting at the group stage again is disappointing but we were always up against it after World Rugby locked us in as a third seed shortly after the last RWC.

 

[retired9]

Agree with all of that.

Our pack used to be powder puff and was routinely bullied by the other home nations but Townsend has definitely made big strides here. I'm still not happy with some of our set piece particularly line out and more competition for Zander would improve depth. We would benefit greatly from having a lock who can carry and has a bit of dog in him IMO.

Our midfield has also improved greatly since Huwpolotu have come in. Redpath looked good albeit against Romania who are poor but at some point I'd like to see Redpath and Sione (moved to 13) tried as a possible Plan B. They haven't really been tried together but I think could be great combo.

We're massive underdogs this weekend but I like the low key approach to the game. Even John Barclay who usually waxes lyrical about Scotland is saying that Ireland always deliver and are heavy favourites. Just let the Irish do the talking about past results and how they're favourites etc. A competitive performance should see us go into the 6N with optimism. Yes exiting at the group stage again is disappointing but we were always up against it after World Rugby locked us in as a third seed shortly after the last RWC.

True, our forwards are much much better than they have been for years, back row is excellent and the choice of hookers is baffling. Zander and Pierre are our best props, Nel has unfortunately had his day now no disrepsect to the man. Sebastian is young, I don't know much about him but I think there is a future for him in a Blue shirt for sure. Bhatti seems to be on the fringes, Sutherland is a wee bit inconsistent although I like both of them in general. The lineout has been up and down for a few years, sometimes good sometimes awful. What has frustrated me in the past is when it hasn't been going well they haven't been able to work out a plan or get a message on to just make sure we win the ball back.

Its a good point, we don't have a big lock that carries hard into contact - Richie Gray was a carrier when younger but I don't see Gilchrist and Skinner popping up here as much as would be beneficial. The number 8s and Watson are big carriers so maybe they aren't too concerned about this.

Redpath/Sione is something that hadn't crossed my mind, having that playmaking skill out sider would be interesting. Redpath is a very good player, strong and fast and gives us a 12 option that balances the Huwipoloto skilled pairing.

The Irish pundits were talking about life after Finn for Scotland, at the moment I think Healy is a really bright option and seems to be in a great place to learn some of the Finn magic and vision yet offer a very commanding and controlling style of the traditonal 10 - his kicking seems to also be very high quality from hand and tee. Hastings isn't at this world cup unfotrunately and is another I really like, he is a good running 10 which could be developed as the option to Healy.

So are we saying props and locks are where more options would be good? Some new talent?

 

[General Melchett]

True, our forwards are much much better than they have been for years, back row is excellent and the choice of hookers is baffling. Zander and Pierre are our best props, Nel has unfortunately had his day now no disrepsect to the man. Sebastian is young, I don't know much about him but I think there is a future for him in a Blue shirt for sure. Bhatti seems to be on the fringes, Sutherland is a wee bit inconsistent although I like both of them in general. The lineout has been up and down for a few years, sometimes good sometimes awful. What has frustrated me in the past is when it hasn't been going well they haven't been able to work out a plan or get a message on to just make sure we win the ball back.

Its a good point, we don't have a big lock that carries hard into contact - Richie Gray was a carrier when younger but I don't see Gilchrist and Skinner popping up here as much as would be beneficial. The number 8s and Watson are big carriers so maybe they aren't too concerned about this.

Redpath/Sione is something that hadn't crossed my mind, having that playmaking skill out sider would be interesting. Redpath is a very good player, strong and fast and gives us a 12 option that balances the Huwipoloto skilled pairing.

The Irish pundits were talking about life after Finn for Scotland, at the moment I think Healy is a really bright option and seems to be in a great place to learn some of the Finn magic and vision yet offer a very commanding and controlling style of the traditonal 10 - his kicking seems to also be very high quality from hand and tee. Hastings isn't at this world cup unfotrunately and is another I really like, he is a good running 10 which could be developed as the option to Healy.

So are we saying props and locks are where more options would be good? Some new talent?

Pretty much. I also think our back three are too weak under a high ball. Tommy Seymour was excellent in the air but we don't have anyone as good as him (in the air) presently.

 

[retired9]

Well now that it's tournament over it's diessection time once again.... Not really interested in the "Scotland were rubbish" tag - we wern't rubbish at all and I would wager that in the first 20 we would have scored against any team bar the Irish and the Boks playing how we were.

Taking it in context, there is a big gulf between top 2 and top 4, then another step to 5th in the world. Scotland were not expected to win that game, Ireland were utterly ruthless and extremely accurate - very few would deal with that.

I do concede that the half time score was very disheartening, Ireland came out with laser focus, did the job, into the changing rooms at half time knowing that they could turn down to 75-80% and be home and dry.

I don't see much point in binning Toonie at the moment, I don't really think Scotland have "failed" at this RWC in all honesty, it was always going to need something special to qualify out the groups.

The coaching team need to take the winter to work out a new plan, maybe eyeball some new talent as well. With the way Scotland are currently playing, looking ahead to the 6N I would say with confidence we have England, Italy and Wales in our victory sights, France would need a special performance but we have it in us.

I think with Ireland it depends on the result of this WC, if they don't win, I think that it may break something in them that will take a lot of work to rebuild. Win, even without Jonny continuing it will be a big game for us to try and win. That said, Sexto seems to be the bogeyman for us.
Anything less than 3rd is a poor showing, need to aim for 2nd/3rd this coming 6N at least.

Gregor is a clever coach, the last time this happened in Japan they cleared the decks a bit and went back to the beginning. Scotland seem to be in an unusual sistuation of being creative, having flair and talent, yet also getting worked out and unpicked by the better teams in the world (who are arguably as good as there has ever been in some cases).

Finally I would also propose making Finn the captain, he was good v Ireland at sticking to his guns and pushing the referee to look at that maul we got pinged for (I know Berry wasn't for listneing but Finn made a real effort to speak). I think don't Ritchie would have challanged as much nor as respectfully.

 

[g6mcg]

Broadly agree, SA and Ireland games were dispiriting but ultimately we don't have the players to compete, and probably never will without the sport becoming much more popular.

3rd behind Ireland and France is and would be a good achievement. Shame we've never put together a year for a real ***le challenge.

Ritchie seems to have a pretty poor reputation with referees. Not our biggest problem but something to work on.

 

[retired9]

I think it's just Ritchies personality to be honest, hes quite abrasive and gets refs backs up by moaning a bit much. Finn seems to be easier on the ear when it comes to making his case and he is also highly knowledgable - that an communication is a key part of the 10 role.

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle, I'd like to see some props ready in the wings and also some new locks (a big carrier would be great too). Mixing up the centres too is going to be important - I want more Redpath he is a superb player.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm not sure Scotland are vastly improved to the point that's made out, they play some very exciting stuff and good value for their wins, at time though it seems beating a pretty rubbish England and Wales is marked as almost world beating events when in reality they were not even close to top contenders.

 

[General Melchett]

I'm not sure Scotland are vastly improved to the point that's made out, they play some very exciting stuff and good value for their wins, at time though it seems beating a pretty rubbish England and Wales is marked as almost world beating events when in reality they were not even close to top contenders.

Scotland are miles behind the top four and I think most fans have their feet on the ground in terms of where we are. Unfortunately there always seems to be an interview where one player says something daft which gives those who don't like us the excuse to wheel out the 'they're talking themselves again' up narrative. This time it was Kinghorn.

We've clearly made progress in the last four years as we were 9th in the world after the last RWC and are now 5th. This RWC was a big disappointment in that we didn't even give SA and Ireland a game. It was comfortable for both. Wales and England aside we actually have a decent record against France. Ireland is the big monkey still on the back but they have surged ahead of all the other home nations. Next year's 6N will be interesting and Scotland should be targeting 3rd place again but nobody I know is getting carried away.

 

[Reiser99]

Hard to properly judge Scotland as they had such a lopsided group. I still think that their long-term plan of targeting people with Scottish heritage is flawed and will only bring limited success.

For me Scotland are just not consistent over 80 minutes and while they may take a few big scalps they won't win a trophy.

 

[retired9]

The media like to whip up something out of very little with Scotland, as said above we have shot up to 5th in the rankings in the last 4 years from 9th. No one in Scotland with their head on the right way is in any doubt of how far below 4th place we are.
In all honesty we had a good run at this years 6N because Wales and England were both pretty poor - next year will be more interesting.
Scotland need to develop an alternative game plan for when things aren't working for us - and execute it effectively. There is a question about the quality of our attack coaches, they don't have a strong background of international experience.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I reckon Cameron Henderson will become a big part for Scotland second row

 

[retired9]

I reckon Cameron Henderson will become a big part for Scotland second row

I have heard good things albeit I know littel about him. We could do with a new lock who will really take the game to the opposition and give us some teeth and grit.