Scotland getting closer to third pro-team up north

[iINDOMINUSxx]

At the opening of the Caledonia Academy in Aberdeen, Scotland head coach Vern Cotter said the area had "great potential" to provide a new team. "This is a fantastic start to growing players to feed another franchise."Dodson has already held talks about the possibility of setting up a new professional team in Aberdeen, with Aberdeen Asset Management having expressed an interest in supporting a team to rival Edinburgh and Glasgow Warriors.
"We've always said we would listen to discussion around a third pro team," explained Dodson, who plans to oversee Academies for young talent in the Borders, East and West by season 2015-16.
"The difficulty is around the sustainability of a £7m-£8m a year investment and where would that team play? We have the Pro12, not a Pro13."
Scottish Rugby plan to invest £1.2m a year in the the four academies, with Dodson saying they would be "the cornerstone of our determination to create a new era"

This is definitely news i look forward reading too, this is fantastic and is heading the right way, i knew that vern would make a huge impact and this is exactly what scotland need, things will now surely go up.

if you would like to read more about this then here is the full article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29448271

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The fact that they don't even know where/who the team would play is a little strange.
I can't see the Pro12 being expanded. If they did then it'd have to be by two sides. There's no one in Ireland to join, I can't see another Welsh region (as much as some tried to create the Vallies side) and Italy struggle enough with two top level sides, let alone three...
They wouldn't be able to join the RFU Championship...maybe they'd try and get involved in the Welsh Premiership? Is that even fully pro?


It's good news, for Scottish Rugby, though - if they can make it a decent side, anyway. If they can tempt some of the foreign based Scots home then there should be the depth for three top level sides.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

The fact that they don't even know where/who the team would play is a little strange.
I can't see the Pro12 being expanded. If they did then it'd have to be by two sides. There's no one in Ireland to join, I can't see another Welsh region (as much as some tried to create the Vallies side) and Italy struggle enough with two top level sides, let alone three...
They wouldn't be able to join the RFU Championship...maybe they'd try and get involved in the Welsh Premiership? Is that even fully pro?

It's good news, for Scottish Rugby, though - if they can make it a decent side, anyway. If they can tempt some of the foreign based Scots home then there should be the depth for three top level sides.

by the look off the article its most likely to be in the north (Aberdeen to be precise), i also heard a rumour from one off my mates that Treviso are planning to drop out off the Pro 12 even though i dont see them dropping atm even through the bad form. But i can see a pro 14 coming in but not a 13.

EDIT: you talk about the welsh teams going to the Welsh Premiership, There are former pro players playing to teams idk if the teams are professional though. But the Italian League is professional and i think Zebre and Treviso should go there.

 

[psychic duck]

The fact that they don't even know where/who the team would play is a little strange.
I can't see the Pro12 being expanded. If they did then it'd have to be by two sides. There's no one in Ireland to join, I can't see another Welsh region (as much as some tried to create the Vallies side) and Italy struggle enough with two top level sides, let alone three...
They wouldn't be able to join the RFU Championship...maybe they'd try and get involved in the Welsh Premiership? Is that even fully pro?


It's good news, for Scottish Rugby, though - if they can make it a decent side, anyway. If they can tempt some of the foreign based Scots home then there should be the depth for three top level sides.

They should try getting both their teams able to qualify for the Champions Cup on merit before thinking of a 3rd team.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

They should try getting both their teams able to qualify for the Champions Cup on merit before thinking of a 3rd team.

that would be quite a struggle though by the form that edinburgh are in atm. glasgow would be in the Champions cup no problem. The idea off the 3rd team is to back up teams like edinburgh who are not in good form aswell as getting a bigger choice off players to pick from. Like i said before there is about the same talent off rubgy in the Scottish premiership as there is in the Welsh Premiership but young players in the league in scotland doesn't get as much chances to start or get game time in the pro 12 teams as there are only 2 off them.

 

[Peat]

They should try getting both their teams able to qualify for the Champions Cup on merit before thinking of a 3rd team.

Don't agree, I think Scotland really badly need the additional playing opportunities generated by a 3rd team.

That said, I think getting both teams able to qualify for the Champions Cup is more likely to happen first. Funding, players, agreement with the Pro 12... there's a lot of hurdles to cross, I see this more as a medium term than short term thing.

 

[psychic duck]

Don't agree, I think Scotland really badly need the additional playing opportunities generated by a 3rd team.

That said, I think getting both teams able to qualify for the Champions Cup is more likely to happen first. Funding, players, agreement with the Pro 12... there's a lot of hurdles to cross, I see this more as a medium term than short term thing.

Last thing the league needs is another basement dweller team. If they have the money, resources, support then fine, but it's more likely they don't. Scotland has a thin pool of talent of a top level standard, so unless they bolster it with a dozen high quality foreigners, or water down Glasgow quite a lot then I don't see it being anything other than another Dragons etc.

 

[Peat]

Last thing the league needs is another basement dweller team. If they have the money, resources, support then fine, but it's more likely they don't. Scotland has a thin pool of talent of a top level standard, so unless they bolster it with a dozen high quality foreigners, or water down Glasgow quite a lot then I don't see it being anything other than another Dragons etc.

I think we're arguing a bit at cross purposes here.

I think you're talking about what the Pro 12 needs. I'm talking about what Scottish rugby needs.

Also, I'm talking about this as a goal to work towards and not something to happen next season. I'd agree that right now they do not have the playing resources - it's right there in the post - I don't think they have the funding right now either.

But Scottish rugby needs 3 teams minimum. 2 is clearly not sufficient. Scottish rugby is better off taking a bit of a hit in effectiveness of their main teams to get 3 teams out and create the extra opportunities for Scottish youngsters to hit international level and the added interest from the extra derbies, obviously with the idea of rebuilding that effectiveness. That's probably not good for the Pro 12 and will be a difficult sell - as mentioned - but Scottish rugby needs to act in its own interests. Which means its needs to be working on a credible plan for 3 teams that it can take to the Pro 12 and get agreement on. They are clearly a way away from having the resources needed to do it. I am not disagreeing with you there. It's not a goer until they do. It's probably not going to happen next season or the season after. But it has to be the goal.

 

[psychic duck]

I think we're arguing a bit at cross purposes here.

I think you're talking about what the Pro 12 needs. I'm talking about what Scottish rugby needs.

Also, I'm talking about this as a goal to work towards and not something to happen next season. I'd agree that right now they do not have the playing resources - it's right there in the post - I don't think they have the funding right now either.

But Scottish rugby needs 3 teams minimum. 2 is clearly not sufficient. Scottish rugby is better off taking a bit of a hit in effectiveness of their main teams to get 3 teams out and create the extra opportunities for Scottish youngsters to hit international level and the added interest from the extra derbies, obviously with the idea of rebuilding that effectiveness. That's probably not good for the Pro 12 and will be a difficult sell - as mentioned - but Scottish rugby needs to act in its own interests. Which means its needs to be working on a credible plan for 3 teams that it can take to the Pro 12 and get agreement on. They are clearly a way away from having the resources needed to do it. I am not disagreeing with you there. It's not a goer until they do. It's probably not going to happen next season or the season after. But it has to be the goal.

The Scottish youngsters are ****e though. There's a reason so many of their recent new caps are heritage players who went through other nation's youth systems. That's why I think yesterday's announcement (http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/1...port-scottish-rugby-academy-launched-aberdeen) of new SRU academies across the country is a far better use of money right now in solving problems than thinking just adding another team solves problems.

Also the Pro12 already has too much emphasis on development for those involved, with weakened teams etc. When Top 14 and Premiership are increasing their TV deals to substantially larger amounts, it's not a wise idea to forget the principal of making the Pro12 a better product in order to compete and keep players.

 

[Jaguares]

What happens to the Scots? All teams were able to grow unless them. The glory days of Scottish rugby have been left behind and are now only surviving. Different is the situation in Ireland or Wales having greater growth. The Scots are no longer interested in rugby?

Rugby in Scotland is becoming less popular?

 

[Peat]

The Scottish youngsters are ****e though. There's a reason so many of their recent new caps are heritage players who went through other nation's youth systems. That's why I think yesterday's announcement (http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/1...port-scottish-rugby-academy-launched-aberdeen) of new SRU academies across the country is a far better use of money right now in solving problems than thinking just adding another team solves problems.

Also the Pro12 already has too much emphasis on development for those involved, with weakened teams etc. When Top 14 and Premiership are increasing their TV deals to substantially larger amounts, it's not a wise idea to forget the principal of making the Pro12 a better product in order to compete and keep players.

Which is why they've done this first and not the 3rd pro team first, because this is a necessary step on the way. Produce players that could feed a new franchise > Create new franchise. This is creating the resources needed. Could you please get it into your skull that I'm not talking about dropping everything and starting a third team as soon as possible and that there's no need to argue with me about why it's not a good idea to do that?

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

The Scottish youngsters are ****e though. There's a reason so many of their recent new caps are heritage players who went through other nation's youth systems. That's why I think yesterday's announcement (http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/1...port-scottish-rugby-academy-launched-aberdeen) of new SRU academies across the country is a far better use of money right now in solving problems than thinking just adding another team solves problems.

Also the Pro12 already has too much emphasis on development for those involved, with weakened teams etc. When Top 14 and Premiership are increasing their TV deals to substantially larger amounts, it's not a wise idea to forget the principal of making the Pro12 a better product in order to compete and keep players.

but are they ?, have you watched the players here, they're are good individual players in the scotland under 18 teams or under 20 and thats the problem, they play more as individuals then as a team and just now coaches at secondary school are trying to make players play as a team more than individuals.

What happens to the Scots? All teams were able to grow unless them. The glory days of Scottish rugby have been left behind and are now only surviving. Different is the situation in Ireland or Wales having greater growth. The Scots are no longer interested in rugby?


Rugby in Scotland is becoming less popular?

i wouldn't say its not popular in scotland when i first went to secondary school there were alot off people up that we could have 2 teams between the first year. its more so losing interest in the sport which is dying in scotland because off our recent form as its just not good enough. that is why we really want a third team, so the edinburgh players or glasgow players lose form they can pick from the third team which are doing well so the scotland team wont slack. like i remember when we use to have the Border Reivers in the pro 12 (from 1995 to 2007 i think) and the national team were looking promising, games were much closer then to what they are now, and we could actually beat england, wales and france then, since they dis-abandon we really struggle so the 3rd team would really help.

 

[psychic duck]

Which is why they've done this first and not the 3rd pro team first, because this is a necessary step on the way. Produce players that could feed a new franchise > Create new franchise. This is creating the resources needed. Could you please get it into your skull that I'm not talking about dropping everything and starting a third team as soon as possible and that there's no need to argue with me about why it's not a good idea to do that?

In the modern environment there's not going to be either the money or interest in a new team, certainly not now or in 10 years or whatever. Pressure on the Pro12 will increase not decrease in the future, last thing it needs is another crap team with 2,000 crowds around. It's not in Scottish rugby's interests to participate in a league that is worthless, and the talent and interest base is so far off with just 2 teams a 3rd that wouldn't be a waste of money seems fanciful tbh.

but are they ?, have you watched the players here, they're are good individual players in the scotland under 18 teams or under 20 and thats the problem, they play more as individuals then as a team and just now coaches at secondary school are trying to make players play as a team more than individuals.

A team brimming with good individual players would be beating Italy comfortably at U20 level and wouldn't have to resort so heavily to poaches.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

A team brimming with good individual players would be beating Italy comfortably at U20 level and wouldn't have to resort so heavily to poaches.

what was the under 20 scores from the last under 20 championship i know the game in 2013 was a pretty comfortable win for scotland

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

but are they ?, have you watched the players here, they're are good individual players in the scotland under 18 teams or under 20 and thats the problem, they play more as individuals then as a team and just now coaches at secondary school are trying to make players play as a team more than individuals.

i wouldn't say its not popular in scotland when i first went to secondary school there were alot off people up that we could have 2 teams between the first year. its more so losing interest in the sport which is dying in scotland because off our recent form as its just not good enough. that is why we really want a third team, so the edinburgh players or glasgow players lose form they can pick from the third team which are doing well so the scotland team wont slack. like i remember when we use to have the Border Reivers in the pro 12 (from 1995 to 2007 i think) and the national team were looking promising, games were much closer then to what they are now, and we could actually beat england, wales and france then, since they dis-abandon we really struggle so the 3rd team would really help.

If you're barely getting 2 teams between a single year that really isn't a great amount; for example over here the main core of schools could put out at least 4 teams per year (then sixth form merges).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

u20s lost 32 - 13
u18s won 24 - 15

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

u20s lost 32 - 13
u18s won 24 - 15

well, thats not that good

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

If you're barely getting 2 teams between a single year that really isn't a great amount; for example over here the main core of schools could put out at least 4 teams per year (then sixth form merges).

wow did not know that.