Exactly. All New Zealand newspapers would have planned their front pages if we win the world cup. They have probably already written their articles if we lose as well.
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RWC 2011: THE FINAL!!! France vs. New Zealand
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Exactly. All New Zealand newspapers would have planned their front pages if we win the world cup. They have probably already written their articles if we lose as well.
Well its hard to really know what happened in the head of the players. My first reaction after the game was thatwe did only have luck on our side. But I have since watch the second half 3 times.... And I can tell you we were good in defense at least in the last 15 min (and we had score advantage). If you rewatch the game the french just let the welsh play and fall and ruck by themselves. They hardly commited anyone to the ruck and were very careful at not making mistakes. They knew that a single mistake and it was over... I think we were lucky that the last penalty (which wasnt one btw) was missed, but you cant denied that they played to keep the score unchanged and they knew that was a ticket to the final.
I believe the only real luck we had was canada beating tonga... Cause that was destiny not in our hands. The last game against wales was played and won and you cant really call that luck. You can guess what wales would have done if wavburton wasnt send off, but you also need to guess what would have france done.... You can imagine what if wales had score a transformation or a penalty but you would also have had to imagine the following french reaction....
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New member here. Great to have found this community. As a Frenchman, I must say we have a better chance of winning the Euro 2012 soccer tournament this summer than the RWC this weekend. We've only played one decent half of rugby this tournament and that was against an England team that was apparently more interested in pub crawls than rugby matches. The rest has been underwhelming (Japan, Canada), mediocre (New Zealand, Wales) or downright embarrassing (Tonga). The most worrying was probably not the Tonga game, which was close to meaningless thanks to Canada (and a ridiculous pool system), but the fact that we only edged Wales by 1 pt playing 15 vs. 14 for 60 min or so.
As much as it pains me to say this, this one is in the bag for New Zealand.
As much as it pains me to say this, this one is in the bag for New Zealand.
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This is not luck, this is lack of realism from Welsh side. They had opportunities and they didn't take them.
When a non-french team wins by playing "ugly", we frenchs celebrate the "realism" of our opponents. When a french team wins while not playing so well, non-french people bash the french team by saying they don't deserve a place in the final and that they are "arrogant turkeys":
- it is not luck if the welsh kicker was bad,
- it is not luck if the french team was better in scrums,
- it is not luck if the french team was better in line-outs,
- it is not luck if the french team didn't concede a lot of penalties while defending 66% of the time,
- it is not luck if Parra took every opportunity to score.
Let's stop kicking ourselves, there are enough people out there already doing it !
I dont think you read my entire post.... My point was that it wasnt luck... relit ce que je viens d'ecrire
. At the end I say The last game against wales was played and won and you cant really call that luck
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cardassian
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Well I do not live in NZ but from what I read on the NZ Herald website its all but talking us up mate... Wasnt there a headline "French make final an insult" or something like that.... And another one yesterday with a similar tone. All the experts analysis have also been ery very anti french, saying we are not worth anything come sunday.... Its even worse in australia.
Keep your reality for sunday night cause no you havent won it yet
When will people realise the NZ Herald is New Zealand's equivalent of The Sun? Never ever use it as a guide to what Kiwi's or even normal media are saying/ thinking.
Personally I'm sure it will be a cracker of a game on Sunday, could go either way, but I'd give the edge to the All Blacks.
is it a murdoch paper? I didnt know. I also read 'stuff' and it is the same as 'Sydney morning Herald', fairfax. To be honest I put all in the same bag, media in aus and nz have been bagging france for the last 2 days, and as a french/aussie I have felt hurt everytime I go to work Anyway I hope its agood final
Anyway I hope its agood final 
elgringoborracho
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You mean the highest selling newspaper in the world? How's that not an indication on what people think? It's an honest question.
barthelemy
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We do not have the same definition of outplaying a team. When the AB are beating france by 40 or 50 points, yes france has been outplayed by ABs. Wales gave their max at 14 to try to make it up, France did not play this game, they waited for Wales to play and still at the end France Won. So no we have been far from being outplayed. and for the luck, it is something you create as well...or at least, you create the conditions of it.
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Shaggy
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your clue is in the highest selling part ... that's what their primary focus is on (selling papers) - controversy and sensationalism sells better than what the majority of people are thinking.
if you want a better indication of what the people that really matter think, why not get an All Black players perspective ... such as Brad Thorn in this NZ article on the stuff website
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/5803478/We-ve-achieved-nothing-warns-lock-Thorn
... Or All Black coach, Graham Henry on the same site
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5803438/France-best-in-the-world-on-their-day-Henry
... Or assistant coach, Wayne Smith, also on the stuff site
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/5808206/ABs-to-step-up-attack-in-World-Cup-final
... there's many more that show both respect to France, and emphasize that the final isn't won
... regardless of anyone's opinion on whether France deserves to be there/were lucky etc, the fact is that they are there, they have proven on numerous occasions that they can beat the All Blacks, and that no one should underestimate them because of that.
Form going into matches doesn't always determine what will happen in a match, but it's one of the few indicators we have ... recent form suggests that the All blacks should win, doesn't mean they are a 100% certainty that they will win the match
Hey thanks for showing where to get your info on NZ news
Im happy you guys have trash there too, it must be a bit like here with all these news articles about aussie bashing in the shaky isles.....
elgringoborracho
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I think there is something peculiar in the french culture that leads us to only play well in two precise situations:
1. if it leads us to be called heroes at the end of the game
2. if we have been super shitty the game before
A kind of narcissism in the choosing of the effort, that we have tried to fight against for years but still keeps coming back as a boomerang each time harder. With Laporte, players with that kind of temperament would be evicted, so it happened less spectacularly. With Lievremont though, this behavior has been multiplied by 10, because Lievremont himself is one of the purest examples of that french selective heroism.
France has never, and in my mind, will never score 60+ points against a minnow team. It's harder to us than winning against the All Blacks. I'm serious here. That peculiarity is what leads most anglo-saxon journalists into labelling us "unpredictable" and "inconsistant". If you think about it, we are actually quite far from those two qualificatives. We have consistantly reached at least the semi finals of the world cups, and been at least 3rd in the 6N. We are also a very predictable team, but you have to understand what I explained before to get that. Its almost mathematically infallible.
So, according to points 1. and 2., if I was a kiwi, I would be ******** bricks right now.
1. if it leads us to be called heroes at the end of the game
2. if we have been super shitty the game before
A kind of narcissism in the choosing of the effort, that we have tried to fight against for years but still keeps coming back as a boomerang each time harder. With Laporte, players with that kind of temperament would be evicted, so it happened less spectacularly. With Lievremont though, this behavior has been multiplied by 10, because Lievremont himself is one of the purest examples of that french selective heroism.
France has never, and in my mind, will never score 60+ points against a minnow team. It's harder to us than winning against the All Blacks. I'm serious here. That peculiarity is what leads most anglo-saxon journalists into labelling us "unpredictable" and "inconsistant". If you think about it, we are actually quite far from those two qualificatives. We have consistantly reached at least the semi finals of the world cups, and been at least 3rd in the 6N. We are also a very predictable team, but you have to understand what I explained before to get that. Its almost mathematically infallible.
So, according to points 1. and 2., if I was a kiwi, I would be ******** bricks right now.
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Normally, I would agree with you. BUT, you forget that they are playing at a FORTRESS, and the talent that they have this time around is overwhelming. New Zealand were good at the 2007 tournament, but lacked some key players in key positions. This time around though, they have an entire team that are peaking. Players like Jane, Dagg, Reid, McCaw.... France can have all the passion, all the flair, all the commitment. The fact is, they don't have the players to match the All Blacks. They don't have the pack to compete in the set phases, and they don't have the loose-forwards to bother New Zealand.
Wales had their breakdown kingpin sent off, yet France could never ever get the ball. They should have annihilated Wales after that.
I hope I am wrong though, as I would love to see the French have a go for the full 80 minutes. I just don't see it happening though.
gingergenius
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IMO, the perfect final.
Firstly, it will be reffed by the best ref in the world. Craig Joubert stands out as a SH ref who understands the scrum, and is unlike the many NH refs who make the game all about them. Rolland is the second best, but he's second by a distance.
Next, the script is all there. New Zealand are the best team, and no true rugby fan would begrudge them victory. Wales vs Australia 3rd place playoff, New Zealand vs France Final, in New Zealand - it has to be 1987!!! Alternatively, France = England four years ago (but worse), a team that somehow, through player will and luck rather than any coaching mastermind, has made it through to the final to play the team they got stuffed by in the group. In both these cases, history says that NZ will win.
But there's that shred of doubt. There's 1999 and 2007 to think about in terms of France vs New Zealand. There's the fact that this French team also won here in 2008. There is always the danger that France could pull it out of the bag and pull off what would be a hilarious upset.
Yet still, I see an All Black victory. They're too well-prepared this time, and they've learnt how to win ugly. This is the difference this time, and this is their similarity with the 2003 England and 2007 Bok team - they will adapt their style of play and up the intensity when it matters, rather than simply relying on superior skill which they have done in the past.
Firstly, it will be reffed by the best ref in the world. Craig Joubert stands out as a SH ref who understands the scrum, and is unlike the many NH refs who make the game all about them. Rolland is the second best, but he's second by a distance.
Next, the script is all there. New Zealand are the best team, and no true rugby fan would begrudge them victory. Wales vs Australia 3rd place playoff, New Zealand vs France Final, in New Zealand - it has to be 1987!!! Alternatively, France = England four years ago (but worse), a team that somehow, through player will and luck rather than any coaching mastermind, has made it through to the final to play the team they got stuffed by in the group. In both these cases, history says that NZ will win.
But there's that shred of doubt. There's 1999 and 2007 to think about in terms of France vs New Zealand. There's the fact that this French team also won here in 2008. There is always the danger that France could pull it out of the bag and pull off what would be a hilarious upset.
Yet still, I see an All Black victory. They're too well-prepared this time, and they've learnt how to win ugly. This is the difference this time, and this is their similarity with the 2003 England and 2007 Bok team - they will adapt their style of play and up the intensity when it matters, rather than simply relying on superior skill which they have done in the past.
elgringoborracho
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At that point in the Wales game, points 1 and 2 were nullified: it wouldn't be heroic at all to win against 14 men, and we had played decently the game before. Thus, we played like crap
Easy!Nah I agree with you of course, we should lose this weekend, it would be super awesome and bizarre if we didn't. But we will play at our best possible level (which probably won't be enough) this I can guarantee.
I'm not sure why people are saying France don't deserve to be in the final, yes they have played awfull at times this tournement (TONGA!) have have't really played good except for against a very underwhelming English side, but what they have done, is enough to make the final, which is more than 18 other teams here, and if they win on sunday, they they deserve to be champions. That said, I think we have it, not getting compacent, I think ABs will need to be at their best, but I think they will be at their best, and ABs at their best will beat any other side. Sorry I said best so many times
Tricia McMillan
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France do deserve to be in the final. They qualified for the knockouts and won both of their knockout matches. What more do you want them to do to "deserve" the spot?
amen
We are starting to look like the brittish, soon everyone will hate us too edit: or is it too late?
amen
edit: or is it too late?
Lol?! Not to drop a bombshell on you but your French, as far as I know (this is in Europe though) you're more hated than us, by quite some way.
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