Rounds 8 & 13 (catching up)

[saulan]

I think the Edinburgh game can't be looked at as a fair reflection on the Sharks. Those weather conditions were appalling and not something that happens there frequently, nor does it suit their game.

The better comparison of where they stood vs the lions would be the January fixture, where they played away and won 37-47. They're definitely not where they should be though. With all their talent on hand they should be our best team. Really think it comes down to the coaching staff.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Scarlets were scoreless for the first 40 mins in Cardiff, then stack up 49 points to keep their playoff dream alive. They should be picking up BPs for fun until the crunch match against Stormers in the final round.

Seems they have a capable alternative to Patchell at 10 too with this Castello fellow (and I thought Dan Jones was an okay 10 too).

 

[unrated]

Scarlets were scoreless for the first 40 mins in Cardiff, then stack up 49 points to keep their playoff dream alive. They should be picking up BPs for fun until the crunch match against Stormers in the final round.

Seems they have a capable alternative to Patchell at 10 too with this Castello fellow (and I thought Dan Jones was an okay 10 too).

That Scarlets result got people talking!
Did not go unnoticed in South Africa.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Looks like the Scarlets are looking to keep things interesting.

I think the Sharks beating the Lions is the more expected outcome but the Lions do have it in them to cause an upset for sure. Stormers - Bulls lived up to its 50/50 billing. Could really have gone either way.

 

[saulan]

The preferred wins from a broader South African perspective to maximize SA teams in the top 8 I think (given Lions are out of it and Bulls have the easier of the run-ins for the SA teams in contention).

Stormers Bulls game went the arm wrestle that was expected. Am very glad we managed to pip that one as I didn't expect our game style to get a win under air ball pressure and strong defense, but we managed to just get by.

Sharks got the win that was for mandatory for them, Lions threw their form of the last 3-4 weeks out the window and got smashed. Probably good for the confidence of the Sharks with their fixtures up ahead, especially since it's looking more likely Scarlets won't make the top 8, which means 7th position is what is going to get you into Champions Cup.

Lions are now playing for 10th, but at least they're playing their opposition for that slot in their upcoming fixtures so their fate (of their pride) is in their own hands.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Not sure how much I care for a broader SA perspective TBH- just glad the Stormers are getting by.

On the Sharks, they've had a bit of a hit and miss season. Potentially the pick of the bunch from SA but they misfire hugely from time to time. If I remember correctly Am is missing for all the rest of the season. That is huge for them as he was without fail their star performer. Fassi and Nkosi also being missed but not the size of hole Am leaves. Man, oh man am I glad Kolisi is no longer clogging up our books and loose forwards space. Fourie, Roos and Dayimani have been big for us. BUT Kolisi is a player that can put in a MoTM performance on the big occasions.

 

[unrated]

Not sure how much I care for a broader SA perspective TBH- just glad the Stormers are getting by.

On the Sharks, they've had a bit of a hit and miss season. Potentially the pick of the bunch from SA but they misfire hugely from time to time. If I remember correctly Am is missing for all the rest of the season. That is huge for them as he was without fail their star performer. Fassi and Nkosi also being missed but not the size of hole Am leaves. Man, oh man am I glad Kolisi is no longer clogging up our books and loose forwards space. Fourie, Roos and Dayimani have been big for us. BUT Kolisi is a player that can put in a MoTM performance on the big occasions.

Am will be back for the playoffs if we make it

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Am will be back for the playoffs if we make it

Okay, I am glad to hear it. Huge for you guys. I'd assume he just walks back into the side.

Bit of a gamble though. None of our sides are actually guaranteed a spot as such even if it is looking good and if we don't make it it'll be only probably one of our sides that don't make it I'd wager.

 

[Bluemoon]

Scarlets were scoreless for the first 40 mins in Cardiff, then stack up 49 points to keep their playoff dream alive. They should be picking up BPs for fun until the crunch match against Stormers in the final round.

Seems they have a capable alternative to Patchell at 10 too with this Castello fellow (and I thought Dan Jones was an okay 10 too).

I wouldn't read too much into that result, Cardiff are in dire straights at the moment.

I imagine it'll be a BP at home to dragons, a narrow win away at dragons and then a loss to the ospreys away and they'll get hammered against the stormers.

 

[unrated]

Okay, I am glad to hear it. Huge for you guys. I'd assume he just walks back into the side.

Bit of a gamble though. None of our sides are actually guaranteed a spot as such even if it is looking good and if we don't make it it'll be only probably one of our sides that don't make it I'd wager.

Yes, he will walk back in and become the captain again. It was a gamble, but one that secured his services until 2025. A small sacrifice to make. The Sharks board knew we were letting him go for a period of home games, arguably we were more likely to win these than letting him go at a point where we are playing away and more at risk of losing. I would say we have been doing fine without him, the only problem was that Edinburgh game but that was just an inability to deal with the conditions, poor strategy and a shocker for our Flyhalf

 

[saulan]

Not sure how much I care for a broader SA perspective TBH- just glad the Stormers are getting by.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely glad the Stormers of doing the best from SA, but I wanted the top 4 SA teams added to this competition to immediately show signs of competitiveness and to prove we add a lot by being a part of the tournament. The way things are headed with (likely) 3 out of 4 teams in the quarter finals in the first year definitely proves that, along with adding a large TV audience and an excuse to visit scenic SA to follow your team (and hoping they aren't playing both the Lions and Bulls in terms of missing the coast).

I'd also say by adding to the average crowd attendance, but I'm not sure where we are at with the 50% attendance limitation still... even then, Bulls had 20k two weeks ago and I feel the Stormers had decentish attendance for the Bulls game... surely we are upping the average attendance, even if it looks poor with the limit and the massive stadium sizes.

What are the average attendances for the other regions? Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy? (Combined or individually?)

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely glad the Stormers of doing the best from SA, but I wanted the top 4 SA teams added to this competition to immediately show signs of competitiveness and to prove we add a lot by being a part of the tournament. The way things are headed with (likely) 3 out of 4 teams in the quarter finals in the first year definitely proves that, along with adding a large TV audience and an excuse to visit scenic SA to follow your team (and hoping they aren't playing both the Lions and Bulls in terms of missing the coast).

I'd also say by adding to the average crowd attendance, but I'm not sure where we are at with the 50% attendance limitation still... even then, Bulls had 20k two weeks ago and I feel the Stormers had decentish attendance for the Bulls game... surely we are upping the average attendance, even if it looks poor with the limit and the massive stadium sizes.

What are the average attendances for the other regions? Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy? (Combined or individually?)

On crowds, very crudely:

Welsh all average around 5,000 to 7,000 (Cardiff and Ospreys would get more if they were performing better)
Scots both around 6,000 it 7,000 (filling small stadia)
Zebre around 1,500, Benetton around 3,000
Connacht around 8,000 filling a small stadia
Other Irish around 11,000 to 15,000 average

So yes, SA could increase overall averages if the recent improvement continues. URC crowds were going up year on year until Covid hit. If the Welsh and Italian unions can find solutions to their problems (in my opinion getting cheap but quality players from the likes of Argentina and Georgia) then their crowds should improve.

 

[saulan]

On crowds, very crudely:

Welsh all average around 5,000 to 7,000 (Cardiff and Ospreys would get more if they were performing better)
Scots both around 6,000 it 7,000 (filling small stadia)
Zebre around 1,500, Benetton around 3,000
Connacht around 8,000 filling a small stadia
Other Irish around 11,000 to 15,000 average

So yes, SA could increase overall averages if the recent improvement continues. URC crowds were going up year on year until Covid hit. If the Welsh and Italian unions can find solutions to their problems (in my opinion getting cheap but quality players from the likes of Argentina and Georgia) then their crowds should improve.

Okay, we should be able to boost this. Looking at the 2019 season, when many had already stopped caring about attending games, your weak matches (e.g. SA team vs weak foreign team like the sunwolves) would get 7-9k, while a derby or a big foreign team (Crusaders) would get 22-27k.

Was kinda shocked to see such low figures tbh (for SA). Shows how much the changes in format decimated attendance interest for South Africans '16/'17 matches between Stormers/Bulls/Sharks used to bring in 30-40k. Now they need to rebuild the goodwill. On the flip side, I think schools and uni rugby support has exploded. I can watch my old high school's 1st xv matches online live every weekend with commentary. While most Unis will have varsity cup matches on SuperSport every other week. Just need to fix the top.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't think we can underestimate the impact of the lock-downs on attendance. With 1/2 capacity now we should see things pick up but it'll take time to get back to "expected" figures if we ever get there.

From a general standpoint it is good that SA can add extra competitiveness to the tournament. Time will show how much because its difficult to say precisely where we stand what with most of the touring sides having not had their internationals. On the flip side I think we could in future tour Europe more successfully as well so perhaps this is a fair enough reflection of what to expect going forwards.

Going forward I think the Stormers in particular (also the Lions though..) will have to invest in greater depth in quality.

 

[unrated]

I don't think we can underestimate the impact of the lock-downs on attendance. With 1/2 capacity now we should see things pick up but it'll take time to get back to "expected" figures if we ever get there.

From a general standpoint it is good that SA can add extra competitiveness to the tournament. Time will show how much because its difficult to say precisely where we stand what with most of the touring sides having not had their internationals. On the flip side I think we could in future tour Europe more successfully as well so perhaps this is a fair enough reflection of what to expect going forwards.

Going forward I think the Stormers in particular (also the Lions though..) will have to invest in greater depth in quality.

I think we will see that the teams who make the Champions cup will go on a spending spree to enlarge their squads to deal with all the extra gametime. And then they have more money to play with. i think Stormers will make it so, I can see them picking up their spending patterns, maybe lure guys like Willie and PSdT back to Cape Town