Round 12

[corny]

Really poor team performance and again it should be concerning that teams are noticeably outworking us in big games. Munster were faster off the line, there was more ferocity in their tackles and carries and they didn't resort to the easy option at any stage. Leinsters indiscipline was brought about by sheer laziness in the tackle. None of the yellows or reds were malicious attempts to hurt the man.

McGrath was particularly poor and i don't see how he holds his place ahead of Gibson Park going into Europe in a couple of weeks.

 

[munstermuffin]

@corny the red wasn't for deliberate foul but Lowe was asking for it. Threw a knee at Murrays head and was just acting the fool. 100% got what he deserved. And let his team down hugely.
Healy got a yellow for being the 1 that broke the camels back in a list of pens. It wasn't for his offence alone.
I see Tadgh is being mentioned as being possibly cited. I hope noata as he'd be huge loss for Leinster and a yellow was enough. He's not a filthy player and had no malice. He went to clear out and got it wrong. Yes we lost Cloete but those things happen.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Don't get me wrong, we deserved to lose, but Frank Murphy was awful. The Leinster cards were all fair enough but Conor Murray's high tackle in the first half was far worse than Healy's. Scannell and Conway were both lucky not to see yellow as well in he first half and Conway on Fardy at the end should have seen yellow as well. Both of the penalties that made it 13-3 at the end of the first half were bull****. He was far stricter on Leinster when it came to the breakdown and the offside line as well, but really the worst thing is the way he lost control of the game in the first half. Our discipline was poor in the first half but we were incited by a Munster team who knew they were unlikely to be punished.

That's it for the moaning from me though, because realistically we weren't good enough to win. Munster were poor as well though. They were against 14 for the entire game more or less and all they could produce was a maul and an intercept. Their attack is beyond poor and comfortably the worst of the four provinces.

Sexton isn't a great captain at all. Needed a calming influence in that first half. It's frustrating because Munster didn't do much and we more or less handed then the win. Ruddock and Vdf haven't been off their best the last few weeks and I don't think either of then were great today. Luke McGrath was excellent though. Lowe will miss a few weeks, I'd be surprised if Furlong got cited, especially given that he's got a more or less clean record.

 

[Hanley!]

A shoulder to the head with no wrap is a red by the letter of the law, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong on that. So Furlong could be cited, though I'll join you in hoping that it doesn't happen. Seemed reckless but not malicious, and while it might have just been relief that he wasn't shown a red, he took his card without complaint and seemed genuinely sorry. That's what you hope for from players when they end up in that situation. In another game, I think people would have forgotten about Furlong's shot almost immediately, but the accumulation of high tackles in this game made it more noteworthy.

Lowe will have to be cited. I'm amazed Conway finished the game, I literally screamed when it happened. Leinster were just too fired up for this game and didn't control that intensity the way they should have done. I've seen people complain about the referee, but Leinster fans really don't have anything to complain about. Murray's high tackle was similar to Healy's, but it was Munster's first of the game and Healy was Leinster's third, if I'm remembering correctly. Leinster were good enough to win the game, but their indiscipline was their own fault. Munster will have to be better over the next few weeks.

 

[munstermuffin]

@Leinster Fan I thought VdF was very good. Thought Luke was poor for ye. On ref
Healys yellow was more for the amount of pens. Conway was lucky at end on Fardy but it was marginal yellow. But well if you are mouthing in a refs face comstantly even going down tunnel at ht then you will loose tight calls. It was the worst discipline I've seen from a Leinster team in years.
And I'd say ref wasn't cause but more when Sexton was asked to speak to his players he didn't and argued back. And as I said Lowe deserves everything he got. An awful attitude.
On the other hand Larmour is a serious talent who has matured

 

[munstermuffin]

A shoulder to the head with no wrap is a red by the letter of the law, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong on that. So Furlong could be cited, though I'll join you in hoping that it doesn't happen. Seemed reckless but not malicious, and while it might have just been relief that he wasn't shown a red, he took his card without complaint and seemed genuinely sorry. That's what you hope for from players when they end up in that situation. In another game, I think people would have forgotten about Furlong's shot almost immediately, but the accumulation of high tackles in this game made it more noteworthy.

Lowe will have to be cited. I'm amazed Conway finished the game, I literally screamed when it happened. Leinster were just too fired up for this game and didn't control that intensity the way they should have done. I've seen people complain about the referee, but Leinster fans really don't have anything to complain about. Murray's high tackle was similar to Healy's, but it was Munster's first of the game and Healy was Leinster's third, if I'm remembering correctly. Leinster were good enough to win the game, but their indiscipline was their own fault. Munster will have to be better over the next few weeks.

Agreed we need to improve. Our back play is seriously under the scope now. Healys high was harmless. More the fact it was after a few pens in short space. Conway was save by Fardy never really left ground. It was a high tackle more than in air as he had him around neck

 

[Hanley!]

when Sexton was asked to speak to his players he didn't and argued back.

Refusing to speak to his team mates when instructed was probably worse than his back-talking the referee. He's not accomplishing anything by doing that, he's just disrespecting the referee for no reason. It's what makes me think he's a bad option for Ireland captain. The other choice after Best is probably O'Mahony who can be ornery when dealing with the refs too, in fairness. But he doesn't strike me as petulant in the same way that Sexton can be.

I've seen a handful of people on rugby twitter talking about Sexton taking a cheap shot at Carbery at some point too, but I didn't spot anything. If he was just showing a bit of extra aggression with his former team mate and closest rival for the 10 shirt, then I'd be expecting that and don't think it's really worth mentioning.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I think Furlong could easily have seen red, but at the same time if Cloete wasn't injured there's every chance play goes on and no one notices. Lowe will miss a few weeks and the Toulouse game which is a pity because there was no malice but it was a clear red. I think the ref could have done more but at the same time there's no excuse for our poor discipline in the first half. Sexton needed to do a lot more. There was nothing in what happened between him and Carbery though. Just Munster fans getting precious about 'their' (haha) Joey. Plenty if stuff like that was happening during the game. We wouldn't have seen that half's discipline last season with Nacewa in charge though. In fairness it was much better in the second half and Cullen deserves credit for that.

Pity about the intercept for Frawley, he was good except for that. Hopefully this doesn't cause him to lose confidence. Our bench was inexperienced but they made a good impact to be fair to them. Bar one poor kick I thought McGrath was excellent and better than Murray who hasn't gotten back to his best since injury. If we'd kept Sexton, Ringrose etc. on the pitch longer I think we could have stolen a win.

If the league wants to be taken seriously though they could do with neutral refs though. (Not that Murphy set out to help Munster but it makes a mockery of the idea that the Pro14 is an elite league.)

Munster deserved their win but if they keep playing like that they won't be anywhere near winning something at the end of the season. For a club of their stature one Pro12 ***le in the last 10 years is a poor return.

 

[Thingimubob]

Hell of a win for the Blues! The stats for the game are mental when you look at the scoreline though...

 

[Leinster Fan]

I know Carbery made his kicks but he was poor from open play.

 

[munstermuffin]

For all the moaning about the ref. I'm suprised none of this existed when Rolland did the game a few times. Murphy is from Connacht branch

 

[munstermuffin]

I know Carbery made his kicks but he was poor from open play.

He was very good defensively to be fair and while he wasn't fluent. Thats more a fault of our system more than him he stood up well. But Sexton was not great in open play either as it was a messy forward orientated game too

 

[corny]

No great issue with the ref myself. He gave a hometown performance but most refs would favour the home side when the atmosphere is like that. As the away side you have to expect it.

The phantom penalty he gave against Ryan at the start of the second half was shocking but it was the only really bad mistake he made in what was a tough game to ref.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Munster deserved their win but if they keep playing like that they won't be anywhere near winning something at the end of the season. For a club of their stature one Pro12 ***le in the last 10 years is a poor return.

It's two league ***les actually. But yes.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Hell of a win for the Blues! The stats for the game are mental when you look at the scoreline though...

Well I watched the game too, and I didn't get the impression that Scarlets had anything like that much territory and possession. But honestly, wtf has happened to them recently?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Hell of a win for the Blues! The stats for the game are mental when you look at the scoreline though...

Stats confirmed by official site. That is bonkers. Was going to tip the Blues for the upset but I always pick them wrong when underdogs.

Fair to say both conferences are looking a bit tasty now. Pretty much the top 10 sides (barring Leinster) are in danger of missing out on the playoffs and even on the Chanpions Cup.

Benetton above Scarlets! Who'd have picked that at this stage of the season? Does the campaign to retain Gatland start now? Bring back Dan Jones at 10 pronto I'd say.

A bit concerned for Glasgow too. This could be their best chance for years to win it all with a home final but they are incredibly inconsistent and should be winning these matches with their internationals available.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Munster v Leinster was a dirty game. I think Leinster wanted to go and rub Munster's faces in the dirt but forgot they had to win the game to do that.

Third bad first half in a big game after Bath and Toulouse away, we better push for the home semi in Europe because we don't look all that confident outside Dublin right now.

 

[munstermuffin]

Munster v Leinster was a dirty game. I think Leinster wanted to go and rub Munster's faces in the dirt but forgot they had to win the game to do that.

Third bad first half in a big game after Bath and Toulouse away, we better push for the home semi in Europe because we don't look all that confident outside Dublin right now.

Hard to see ye get a home semi to be fair unless ye loose to Toulouse and win an away QF.
Was strange as ye did a warm up that was so intense and agressive but seemed to be way to fired up. James Ryan was the only lad who seemed to be as cool as they come. Fardy and Sexton lost heads completely and it rubbed off on the rest. And I think Lowe just paid price for instigating alot. Ye would've probably won if it was 15v15.
Had a look at our stats this morning for backs it is actually very bad. Mike Haley and Earls are only 2 who look ok. But it's more the structures not the individuals. I'd also say both Luke McGrath and Conor Murray were poor. Alby is a sharper 9 for us at the moment and JGP offers alot more for ye currently too.
Stander was the standout backrower but Van Der Flier I thought was a thorn. Wycherley really stood up to and his lineout ability was a big plus.

In terms of what it means from mattering it was not as big as the next 3 games. But for emotion and rivalry the game was given a new lease of life as both teams went at it hell for leather.

 

[Amiga500]

I've seen a handful of people on rugby twitter talking about Sexton taking a cheap shot at Carbery at some point too, but I didn't spot anything.

There is a video running around twitter.

Sexton definitely stamped on him (and Carbery was alongside ruck not near ball at time) - reaction says that for sure. Many are alleging he stamped on his balls - video doesn't prove that either way - but I'd expect a citing and investigation.

There may be TV angles that haven't made public domain which may clear it up. Initial viewing wouldn't look good for J10.

edit:
https://mobile.twitter.com/James_White__/status/1079086693326692363

 

[munstermuffin]

There is a video running around twitter.

Sexton definitely stamped on him (and Carbery was alongside ruck not near ball at time) - reaction says that for sure. Many are alleging he stamped on his balls - video doesn't prove that either way - but I'd expect a citing and investigation.

There may be TV angles that haven't made public domain which may clear it up. Initial viewing wouldn't look good for J10.

Being honest it mountain out of nothing. Sexton did hit out. But in the heat of a derby that is to be expected. He's not the 1st won't be last