Romania - RWC Profile

[Melhor Time]

My World Cup preview for Romania is online: http://www.rugbymania.com.br/2009/ver_noticia08.asp?codigo=4323<!-- m --><!-- m -->

Suggested XV

15 Iulian Dumitras (Lourdes, France)
14 Catalin Nicolae (Farul)
13 Csaba Gál (Baia Mare)
12 Ionut Dimofte (Bare Mare)
11 Catalin Fercu (Timisoara)
10 Danut Dumbrava (Steaua)
9 Lucian Sirbu (Millau, France)
8 Ovidiu Toniţa (Perpignan, France)
7 Alexandru Manta (Lyon, France)
6 Stelian Burcea (Timisoara)
5 Cristian Petre (Saint Ettiene, France)
4 Sorin Socol capitão (Lourdes, France)
3 Paulica Ion, London Irish, England)
2 Marius Tincu (Perpignan, France)
1 Bogdan Balan (Lyon, France)

Reserves: 16 Andrei Radoi (Baia Mare), 17 Mihai Lazar (Aix-en-Province, France), 18 Valeintin Ursache (Aix-en-Province, France), 19 Daniel Carco (Farul), 20 Valentin Calafeteanu (Timisoara), 21 Florin Vlaicu (Steaua), 22 Ionut Botezatu (Baia Mare)

Additional players: 23 Catalin Beca (CSM Bucaresti), 24 Vasile Mariscariu (Bobigny, France), 25 Marius Sirbe (Tarbes, France), 26 Mihai Macovei (Baia Mare), 27 Viorel Lucaci (Steaua), 28 Florin Sirugiu (CSM Bucaresti), 29 Ionel Cazan (Steaua), 30 Madalin Lemnaru (Timisoara)

Players to pay attention to

The stars: Paulica Ion, Alexandru Manta, Ovidiu Toniţa e Marius Tincu

Others who could impress: Lucian Sirbu e Cristian Petre

Key Points

- Historically considered seventh in Europe after the 6 Nations and the only European non-6N side to have played at every World Cup.

- Today´s Romania is a shadow of the former side. Today Romania is 18th in the world ahead of oly Russia (19) and Namibia (22) who will be at New Zealand 2011.

- Extreme problems in qualifying for New Zealand 2011 thanks to the Federaţia Română de Rugby (FRR) replicating Australia and New Zealand y refusing to select players based abroad. The result was disastrous and very nearly catastrophic. In qualifying matches from 2008-2010, Romania defeated Spain 19-10 and Germany 22-0 in the first phase but lost 28-19 to Russia, 28-23 to Georgia and 22-21 to This meant Romania was in fourth place of six with only the top two qualifying for NZ 2011 and the third entereing repercharge. At the start of 2010 the FRR ended the absurd policy and it saved the national side. The Oaks improved 200% with a 67-5 win vs Germany and 48-03 against Spain. Romania drew 21-21 vs Russia in Russia, defeated Georgia 22-10 (but as Gerogia had already qualified it fiedled a second string side) and 20-9 vs Portugal. This gave Romania the chance of qualifying afterall as the Oaks finished thierd behing Georiga and Russia. Romania wernt on to defeat Ukraine 33-3 and 61-7 and then Tunísia (Africa 2) 56-13. With this Romania would face Uruguay home and away with the winner going to NZ 2011. The first match was a 21-21 draw in Montevideo and ROmania won the return fixture 39-12 in Bucharest.

- Historically Romania was a force to the extent that today it seems impossible. Romania was better than Italy without question, and could have been a World Cup semi finalist if RWC´s had existed in the 1970´s. Int hhe 70´s the top sides were Wales and New Zealand. Australia was weak, including a home loss vs Tonga. South Africa was, of course, out of the picture due to its rascist government. The likes of England, Ireland, France, Argentina, Italy and Scotland were all far weaker than today.

- Romania´s first big win came vs France in 1960 in Bucharest. The nfollowing year Romania drew with France in Bayonne and again in Toulouse in 1963. Romenia also defeated France in 1968, 1974, 1976, 1980 and 1982. Results against Italy were even moer impressive with wins in 1962, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1983 and 1985. Without question, Romania should have played in the Five Nations (still without Italy). Unfortunately politics of the Cold War prevented this. The truth is that the old unions - the British and Irish did not want a communist team playing in ´their tournament´. This is why Rmoania had so much success vs France and Italy.

- The British and Irish didn´t want to play against Romania. It only began in 1979 - 19 years after Romania defeated France in Bucharest. Wales faced Romania for the first time in 1979 and won 13-12 with a late win. Romania defeated Wales 24-6 in 1983 and 15-9 in 1988. Curiously, Wales was eliminated in the 1987 World Cup semi-finals but couldn´defeat Romania before or after the tournament. Romania also had success vs Scotland, winning 28-22 in 1984 and drawing 13-13 vs Ireland in Dublin in 1980. Romania lost 14-6 vs New Zealand in 1981 in a quesitionable match in which Romania had two tries denied. In other words, ability was ignored by the powerful rugby nations in a similar way to the Southern Hemipshere ignoring Argentina from 1999-2012. Argentina hasn´t ´played Australia since the 2003 World Cup and New Zealdn since 2006, despite very nearly winning in Buenos Aires.With Romania the situation was the same but had a different cause. The 3N ignored Argentina because of economic, prefering to play extrra games vs England or Wales and take a share of the profits, while the Europeans ignored Romania because of communism..

- In 2011 Romania is losing to side like Georgia, Portugal and Russia. How come? The end of communism. Rugby recieved a lot of state support from dictator, Nicolae Ceaușescu who from the 1950´s until collapse and his murder in 1989 organized what can be considered the same as rugby academies which trained players full time, six days a week. With this the national side was strong. Its a pity that there were no World Cup´s earlier. When the first happened in 1987, communism was on a sharp decline following the massive economic issues of 1984-1985. This meant a weakened Romanian side for 1987. Nevertheless Romania was still much better in 1987 than in 2011. The Oaks had a tough group and lost to France and Scotland but defeated Zimbabwe. .

- Since France 2007, Romania has won 64.51% of its matches but hasn´t faced tier one opposition. No matches vs Six Nations sides and only one tier two opponent - Fiji in 2010. Of those in the same group only Georgia have faced Romania. Georgia won twice and Romania once since 2007. Romania has never defeated Argentina or England but has two wins and ten losses vs Scotland.




Prediction

4 loses and thus pool stage elimination. Playing at the top level, Romania only three players today - Ovidiu Tonita and Marius Tincu at Perpignan (France) and Paulica Ion at London Irish (England). All three are world class players but all are forwards and not sufficient to give the Oaks a chance of going far in the World Cup. Nonetheless, Romania will compete with everyone in the scrums.

 

[Seaton]

Wow, I didn't know that Romania used to have such good teams.
Your fingers must have been pretty sore whilst typing the mid-section of your post, but I see that you're still taking every available opportunity to have a go at the Tier 1 nations
Never knew we and the other 5 nations countries lost to Romania

How on earth could the Romanian rugby union hope to pull off that bit about not selecting 'over-seas' based players? It would be much easier for their top players to develop further in say France than Romania, good that it was over turned.

 

[dragos03]

There are a few incorrect facts in your post. For example, Romania hasn't lost to Russia in 2011. The lineup you proposed is also inaccurate: former captain Sorin Socol and Alex Manta have retreated from the national team, while it's unlikely that Bogdan Balan will be selected. I would include Daniel Carpo and Catalin Fercu among the players to watch.

Indeed, the decision to play without the overseas players at the start of the qualifiers was a bad one, it was an attempt to create a younger squad and it failed. But there is hope that Romania's small professional league will produce better players in time, and hopefully the sport will be able to attract sponsors and more media interest.

At the RWC, we can win against Georgia (we could have beaten them this year in the ENC as well, but our number 10 had a horrible day and missed a string of easy conversions). We will surely lose the other matches, but I hope at least we will put up a nice fight. We almost beat Italy in the 2007 RWC and we managed to score a try against New Zealand even if we lost heavily, and I was proud of our team trying at all times to attack against one of the world's best sides.

 

[Melhor Time]

There are a few incorrect facts in your post. For example, Romania hasn't lost to Russia in 2011. The lineup you proposed is also inaccurate: former captain Sorin Socol and Alex Manta have retreated from the national team, while it's unlikely that Bogdan Balan will be selected. I would include Daniel Carpo and Catalin Fercu among the players to watch.

Indeed, the decision to play without the overseas players at the start of the qualifiers was a bad one, it was an attempt to create a younger squad and it failed. But there is hope that Romania's small professional league will produce better players in time, and hopefully the sport will be able to attract sponsors and more media interest.

At the RWC, we can win against Georgia (we could have beaten them this year in the ENC as well, but our number 10 had a horrible day and missed a string of easy conversions). We will surely lose the other matches, but I hope at least we will put up a nice fight. We almost beat Italy in the 2007 RWC and we managed to score a try against New Zealand even if we lost heavily, and I was proud of our team trying at all times to attack against one of the world's best sides.

Hi Dragos,

Its not who I think will be selected, rather who I would like selected. Has Alex Manta confirmed he won´t play? I thought he was still targetting a place at the World Cup? He played vs Uruguay in the qualifying matches seven months ago. While Sorin Socol played in the 2011 tests only three months ago.

Who do you think should be the starting XV? who you would select not who the coaches will)

About losing to Russia in 2011. Thats not what I meant. I was pointing out that in 2011 (i.e. nowadays) teams like Russia, Georgia and Portugal are getting wins over Romania while 30 years ago Romania was defeating teams including Scotland, Wales and France.

Romania will compete well in the scrums and should do well in set play in general. The tough thing is to be the lack of professionals in the backs. Georgia have quite a lot of players in the Top 14, almost all props but not entirely. Amateur teams are always going to be badly beaten. Romania needs to do something like Russia and have a better pro league or something like Georgia and get the top players exposed to top flight rugby abroad.

Wow, I didn't know that Romania used to have such good teams.
Your fingers must have been pretty sore whilst typing the mid-section of your post, but I see that you're still taking every available opportunity to have a go at the Tier 1 nations
Never knew we and the other 5 nations countries lost to Romania

How on earth could the Romanian rugby union hope to pull off that bit about not selecting 'over-seas' based players? It would be much easier for their top players to develop further in say France than Romania, good that it was over turned..

Romania were quite the force indeed. A good team and large crowds. I don´t have the numbers but the match vs the All Blacks was surely 40,000 or more. Packed venue.

It was a miracle that Romania qualified. At one stage they were looking like missing out with Portugal highly likely to finish third and thus go into repercharge. Its good to see Romania there. The RWC without Romania wouldn´t be the same.

 

[dragos03]

Well, first of all, Romania has a professional league that has existed for a few years already, so there isn't any amateur players in the team. However, that doesn't mean much, years will be needed until the effects of this pro league will be seen.

Of course, Romania is not any more the force it used to be. This has two causes though: the downfall of rugby in Romania after the fall of communism (which you pointed in the initial post) but also the development of sides such as Georgia (which is a good thing). Today, 20 years after the 1989 revolution, things are finally on the right track for Romania tho. There is a small pro league, infrastructure is getting a bit better, the economy of the country has recovered, etc. There is also more interest toward this sport (in a country where football in king). There was amazing to see a full stadium at the home game versus Uruguay. In time, with more sponsors and interest, the league will grow and start producing quality players. The fact that a team gets to play in the Challenge Cup also helps in my opinion.

Alex Manta has retired right after the Uruguay games (in which he scored a few tries), announcing that he has done his duty for the national team. Socol has quit during the ENC, after a conflict with the coach caused by him not being a starter. Both are quality players in my opinion, and they could help the team at the RWC. As far as I know, there is still a small chance that they could be selected, but it's unlikely.

As for who I would like to see in the team, I will wait until the end of the IRB Nations cup before putting a team up. On Wednesday, we'll play against the SA Kings (a side that is stronger than some of the teams qualified for the RWC in my opinion), it will be interesting to see who of our boys can compete against quality opposition.

 

[Darwin]

Another good preview Melhor Time. One of the few games I get to go to is Romania v England, so it is interesting to hear a bit about the Romanian team. I am right to think that Romania should be semi-competitive in the forwards against England, but will likely be cut apart in the backs?

 

[Jayatron]

I had no idea that Romania had a professional league. Interesting, and good to hear, that Romania are heading in the right direction.

 

[Melhor Time]

Another good preview Melhor Time. One of the few games I get to go to is Romania v England, so it is interesting to hear a bit about the Romanian team. I am right to think that Romania should be semi-competitive in the forwards against England, but will likely be cut apart in the backs?

Thats what I think - good forwards and really strong in the frontrow. Don´t be fooled by common opinions and media reports, Romania will be strong against all opponents in the frontrow as will Georgia. The pool features five outstanding scrumaging teams. Look at Pool D in contrast with South Africa playing against four teams with significant issues in this area.

I´ve learned so much more about the complexitiy of the various areas of rugby from starting up and coaching a team in Brazil than I did from living and playing in a rugby strong-hold country. People will inevitably say Romania are poor because they will concede a lot of points. But this is simply rubbish. Rugby is so complex that without a pro set up for the players teams stand no chance of being competitive. Players across the park are needed. Romania has great players in the frontrow playing for top English and French teams but its too little. Argentina, in contrast have players in all positions in leading teams in these countries. Not hard to see the consequence and understand how they finished third in France 2007. Romania don´t have pro rugby. Not to an appropriate level at least. The team is better off than it was a few years ago according to those in Romania. Thats great news.

Romania will be strong in some parts of the game and regardless of the results on the scoreboard they´ll really challenge all opposition in specific parts of the game. Rugby is not soccer. You can´t stack the defence and play out for a 0-0 result. Impossible and thats the beauty of it. At the same time many, many new powers are coming along. Pro leagues in Russia, Italy, Romania and Japan exist. Latvia, kazakhstan and Lithuania want to have teams in the Russian Pro league. Argentina is going to be pro soon. Super Rugby beackons. USA will have apro league in a few years and Canada will have teams involved in it. This is massive progress.

The game vs England should be nice . I´ll be in new Zealand for half of the tournament myself but won´t be attending that match.

 

[Nielsch]

I'm interested to see Romania (and Georgia for that matter) go up against Scotland. If a shocker is possible during the pool stages, it's in this one.

 

[Melhor Time]

I'm interested to see Romania (and Georgia for that matter) go up against Scotland. If a shocker is possible during the pool stages, it's in this one.

A possibility for sure not a great one but certainly could happen. There are a number of scenarios in the RWC. The main ones are:

Wales - could lose to either Fiji or Samoa
Italy - could lose to USA
Tonga - should lose to both Canada and Japan
Ireland - sure Georgia 2007 was a lesson. Could certinaly lose to the Italians. 60% chance of Irish win.

 

[beerholder]

I had no idea that Romania had a professional league. Interesting, and good to hear, that Romania are heading in the right direction.

The sport is rapidly picking up fans and players alike and with that more money... The hosting of the IRB Nations cup, the competitive league, the number of sponsors on the jerseys are all a sign that Rugby is getting more popular.

We're very far from being a force or even a banana peel for the real forces, but a man can dream, can he?

 

[beerholder]

Rugby World Cup 2023 should be in Argentina

Haha, totally agree with that. If Argentina could host a football world cup in the 70's why can't they host a rugby one today? Seriously, are the antagonisms with England still present among people?

 

[Nielsch]

Haha, totally agree with that. If Argentina could host a football world cup in the 70's why can't they host a rugby one today? Seriously, are the antagonisms with England still present among people?

Argentina or Italy. Don't forget that Italy's stadiums are better than Argentina's and that more people from Europe would likely attend the matches if the RWC is held in Italy.

I'd like to see both countries as organizers (in 2023 and 2027 for instance). Just saying that a RWC in Italy would probably be a safer financial bet.

 

[dragos03]

Since I heard from the Romanian captain himself that there is no chance for Alex Manta and Sorin Socol to return for the RWC, here is the team I would like to see:

1. Mihaita Lazar
2. Marius Tincu (c)
3. Paulica Ion
4. Cristian Petre
5. Valentin Ursache
6. Stelian Burcea
7. Ovidiu Tonita
8. Daniel Carpo
9. Florin Surugiu
10. Dan Dumbrava
11. Catalin Fercu
12. Ionut Dimofte
13. Ionel Cazan
14. Madalin Lemnaru
15. Iulian Dumitras