RFU rules against London Welsh

[SelimNiai]

I'm sorry to be stirring, but if you have better things to do with your time don't be wasting it flouncing on a rugby forum.

Ok?

Seems an odd thing to say

 

[psychic duck]

even if London Welsh were to go up, I feel sorry for them as they would have missed out on a month of time to prepare for the Premiership

 

[Nielsch]

you came out with the arrogant line but obviously thats ok as your a mod.

Teams have not been promoted because they dont fit the critiera set by the rfu, teams that have met it such as leeds, worcester, northampton and exeter have been promoted. So where is the ring fencing.

Think i should put my cards on the table here as its getting a bit daft (which i am partly responsible for).....tigers is not my only club. I live in nottingham and have followed them for many years, gary rees used to be a regular in my pub and i remember the days when the likes of brian moore and chris gray would play at the old ireland avenue ground. In the professional era nottingham could not compete at the top level, its not the biggest of towns and with 2 soccer teams, an successful ice hockey side and a good county cricket team that even if they built a 10k stadium they would never be able to half fill it most of the time. But no one at the club seemed to grasp that fact so they sold ireland avenue to a builder in the hope of "hitting the big time". Oh dear they didnt get the money they should have from sale and ended up ground sharing with with notts county who then when it looked like a big spending invester form the middle east was coming in decided to kick their "egg chasing" mates out and it was only a court order that stopped nottingham rfc being without a home. As it turned out the notts county investers turned out to be crooks ( lmfao when i found out) and all of a sudden nottingham rfc were welcome back at meadow lane. They still stuggle on in the championship and i go and watch from time to time but its a souless sad mainly empty ground they play in, like lots of rugby teams they think big ground, big crowds, premiership rugby big success but it almost always doesnt end up like that. I would love it if nottingham were back at their old home, wouldnt bother me if they were in a lower league but they would still be the club in nottingham not some franchise type of affair sharing a ground with its footballing betters. London welsh are a great club with a great history at deer park and i really feel for the fans there if they do go up because its going to be them loosing all their history like nottingham did. They will be the ones having to do a 110 mile round trip to watch their team play in another city not you trf cymbro all for this big "prize" that they dont have the resources or fan base to sustain its ok to get mad and angry about the rfu making stupid decisions i hate them too but this is about being realistic as much as most of you hate to admit it london welsh will not survive in the premiership and they could destroy themselves if they went u and in 2 seasons time they will be stuggling in front of 500 fans from oxford in a ground they could barely afford to rent.

Clubs are there for the people in the surrounding areas thats why they start in the first place the london welsh board should consider that before they push this promotion thing too hard because i would hate it to all end in tears and unless you have followed a club that have been stung by over ambition you cannot really understand.

qft

 

[Peat]

Point 1 - These are not the regulations of the RFU, they are of the PGB, of which Championship clubs are a part, and indeed I believe London Welsh actually voted for the current regulations. The RFU is guilty of enough sins without blaming them for those of which they are not totally responsible.

They aren't.

Balls to the off feild stuff, rugby is played on the pitch and on the pitch London Welsh are actually a better side than Exeter were when they came up. Hypothetically if LW have their stadium in order and the RFU let them come up I'm fairly sure they wont be the whipping boys as arrogantly stated before by Howzy

The season Exeter went up they finished the season 26 points clear of London Welsh. The season before 28 points. The season before that by 46 points. London Welsh finished 14 points off the 1st spot this season and 14 points off 2nd the season before (Wuss were so far clear that there's no point comparing).

I fail to see any evidence there to suggest London Welsh are a better team than Exeter or other teams that have gone up. On the contrary, I see a great deal of evidence that says they are doing worse. Also, while I can't vow to it, it appears that Exeter didn't use any loan players that would need replacing in their promotion charge. Finally, Exeter have brought in players to strengthen the squad - not always with great effect, but they've played a part, and I don't think they'd be in the HEC without Mieres.

Now, Exeter, with an average crowd of over 8,000, no rent to pay and the supplementary income from owning their own stadium, can't/don't wish to afford to strengthen their squad up to the wage cap. How are London Welsh, with an average crowd of just over 1,000, rent to pay and no such complementary income meant to find the money to seriously strengthen their squad? I don't know what London Welsh's turnover is - although I am led to believe they already operate at a loss - but suspect it falls short of the 7.4m that is the rough average figure for turnover amongst the Premiership clubs outside the top 4 (would be higher with them included). So unless LW have a LOT of backing from somewhere, I suspect they will be a way under the wage cap.

Looking at the objective stats, there is strong reason imo to believe London Welsh may well struggle next season.

 

[SelimNiai]

even if London Welsh were to go up, I feel sorry for them as they would have missed out on a month of time to prepare for the Premiership

That's the system in general though, even if everything had gone smoothly for them theyd still have less preparation in terms of signings.

I think what some teams do is have a contract drawn up with players and only if/when promotion happens then its signed.

The season Exeter went up they finished the season 26 points clear of London Welsh. The season before 28 points. The season before that by 46 points. London Welsh finished 14 points off the 1st spot this season and 14 points off 2nd the season before (Wuss were so far clear that there's no point comparing).

I meant that LW side of 2011-2012 is better than the Exeter side of 2009-2010.

And you don't have to break the bank for quality. When we signed players from that league, Lee Robinson, Dan Ward-Smith, Shaun Perry etc they weren't expensive signings but they proved worth is and their value went up from there.

Most sides struggle in their 1st season up, nobody is suggesting that LW will go HC in their first season. We are saying they should be allowed to at least try.

 

[Peat]

I meant that LW side of 2011-2012 is better than the Exeter side of 2009-2010.

And you don't have to break the bank for quality. When we signed players from that league, Lee Robinson, Dan Ward-Smith, Shaun Perry etc they weren't expensive signings but they proved worth is and their value went up from there.

Most sides struggle in their 1st season up, nobody is suggesting that LW will go HC in their first season. We are saying they should be allowed to at least try.

I do not watch the championship regularly, so I must confine myself to looking at the table - London Welsh's position in the league tables has stayed consistently below the levels that Exeter have achieved. And yes, you can get good signings on the cheap. Generally though, you get what you pay for. And, of course, the pool of quality available has been diminished by all this ******** anyway.

I believe that as a general rule of thumb that, yes, the promoted team should have their go. I believe that the current rules are mildly ridiculous. However, as everybody knew them, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for clubs that fall foul of them.

 

[psychic duck]

That's the system in general though, even if everything had gone smoothly for them theyd still have less preparation in terms of signings.v

I think what some teams do is have a contract drawn up with players and only if/when promotion happens then its signed.

yes but they are losing more and more time, those players will be taken by other clubs the longer it goes

And you don't have to break the bank for quality. When we signed players from that league, Lee Robinson, Dan Ward-Smith, Shaun Perry etc they weren't expensive signings but they proved worth is and their value went up from there.

I doubt Exeter paid too much for Igancio Mieres or Sireli Naqelevuki given their little reputations when signed, or Bordeaux (the lowest budget Top 14 team who finished 8) had paid too much Blair Connor, Heini Adams, Ole Avei or Matthew Clarkin who have been their top players this season

Lyon on the otherhand got some more well known internationals like Koyamaibole, Januarie, Leguizamon, van Gisbergen (who has been woeful) who couldn't keep them up

 

[Teh Mite]

Sailosi O'Tagicakibau, Paulică Potation, Patrick "Paddy" FitzTreviranus. Problem?

ftfy

 

[Howzy]

They aren't.

Balls to the off feild stuff, rugby is played on the pitch and on the pitch London Welsh are actually a better side than Exeter were when they came up. Hypothetically if LW have their stadium in order and the RFU let them come up I'm fairly sure they wont be the whipping boys as arrogantly stated before by Howzy

what do you mean by arrogantly i never said they were gonna be the whipping boys all i said was they would stand no chance agaisnt top flight sides e.g. tigers and saries

 

[SelimNiai]

what do you mean by arrogantly i never said they were gonna be the whipping boys all i said was they would stand no chance agaisnt top flight sides e.g. tigers and saries

Why is everyone making such a big deal of it this year. as has been said before pirates lost out but didnt go for a rfu appeal they just stood back and said we have won the championship anyways when was the last time welsh were a top flight side? cos tbh would it be really worth them coming up if they wer just gonna be the whipping boys? finally falcons must have some big plans next season signing dean richards as DOR and a fusilade of new players (Chris York, Andrew Higgins,Oliver Tomaszczyk,Alex Crockett, Rory Lawson, Carlo del Fava, Tane Tu'ipulotu and Scott MacLeod) seems like they have learnt from this season and dont wanna be in this position again.

Oh yeah you did

 

[SelimNiai]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18504308

The appeal has been put back, maybe I'm being cynical but that says to me that the decision has already been made in Newcastle's favour 'cos if on the 28th LW are allowed to go up that only gives them 8 weeks or so to fully prepare and recruit for a Premiership season.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Probably.

I saw it the other day and I thought the RFU would no doubt dismiss the appeal. Same old same old.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

So a decision is expected around 5pm.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Even if it goes for them at this stage they're going to be in a lot of trouble next season. Considering the limited time at their disposal, they're really going to struggle in my opinion.

 

[Scan]

Even if it goes for them at this stage they're going to be in a lot of trouble next season. Considering the limited time at their disposal, they're really going to struggle in my opinion.

Ya they will but, it's the principle of the thing. If Welsh win the appeal then the evil RFU/Premier Rugby (whoever it is) will be defeated. And even if they do go straight back down they'll know they'll be allowed go back up without any hassle.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Feic, Exeter did it with a squad of unknowns. If Welsh make it (unlikely, because of timing) then they will have the same chance to stay up.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No announcement yet but rumours are they've done it....

 

[04perryo]

done what?

 

[Teh Mite]

Not quite the same Rob although I see your point, Ex had been building for donkeys years and were unfortunate to have Quins, Saints and Leeds all go down when they were about to make the leap - all 3 of whom won major trophies in the interim and even then were littered with big-names and world-cup winners.

Welsh have come good this year, but they're by no means as strong compared to the Exeter side who nearly matched their biggest ND1 rivals.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

done what?

....won.