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Remembering Jonathan Wilkinson

For me, one of the most special things about Wilkinson was the way he added that shuffle sidestep to his game. He decided he didn't have enough tools in the armoury, so he went away, studied from the best and came back stronger. I don't think there has ever been, or will ever be, a player more dedicated to and obsessed with perfection of his craft. More than a little crazy.

Incredible to think that he lost so much time, missed the peak of his career and still accomplished so much. A shame to think he and Carter faced each other so rarely, the greatest rivalry that never was.

A shame to lose him in general, but sic transit gloria mundi. I wish him the best of luck in anything he does next.
 
Again, I'd like to state that my point wasn't to start a Carter vs. Wilkinson thread, and I don't see any point in going down that road.
 
Feicarsinn said:
Again, I'd like to state that my point wasn't to start a Carter vs. Wilkinson thread, and I don't see any point in going down that road.
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I think goodnumber10's point though is a valid one. Wilko was great, but maybe he would have been even greater in a team that gave him the kind of opportunities that Carter got from the team he played in. Or to put it the other way, would Carter have looked as good at 10 for England as he has for the All Blacks?
 
smartcooky said:
I think goodnumber10's point though is a valid one. Wilko was great, but maybe he would have been even greater in a team that gave him the kind of opportunities that Carter got from the team he played in. Or to put it the other way, would Carter have looked as good at 10 for England as he has for the All Blacks?
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England has usually had a dominant forward pack...I'd argue over the last decade their biggest problem has been complimenting the efforts of their forwards with dynamic back play...which I tend to think Wilkinson was at least somewhat part of the problem.

I certainly don't believe Wilkinson's 'stand-deep' approach would have complimented the All Blacks as well as Carter's take it to the line approach.

Regardless I don't want to spend this thread talking about what 10's I rate ahead of Wilkinson as he is a fantastic 10 in his own right, a fantastic professional and role model. Since moving to Toulon it is great to see how it rejuvenated him and added some more highlights for an already very accomplished career. Few players in history have been as capable of methodically closing down games like Wilkinson, which as we're likely to see soon in the finals Toulon are playing, the guy can sure win tough games, ugly.
 
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Standing deep isn't an issue, Carter stands deep, it's where they execute that makes the difference.

What I would say is that from 2001-2003 with Brian Ashton as the attack coach England were the best attacking side in the world and that was with Wilkinson at 10 and playing right on the tackle line. But then look at his options outside, Greenwood at 12, Tindall at 13. Robinson, Lewsey and Ben Cohen in the back three. It's a World Class back line with world class subs like Catt coming off the bench.

Then look at his options post 2003 (when he wasn't injured) - Greenwood disappeared, Tindall was injured a lot and he was playing with people like Jamie Noon, Dan Hipkiss, an aged Andy Farrell, Stuart Abbott, Tom Voyce etc.... It's very difficult to see anyone doing much with those options outside them.

I’m not saying Wilkinson is better than Carter or vice versa, but I can’t ever recall Carter having to play in a team that struggled in the way England did post 2003. The all blacks are a product of a systematic structure all leading to the all blacks. You take a component out it continues to function, England haven’t been that way for the majority of Wilkinson’s playing career.

smartcooky said:
I think goodnumber10's point though is a valid one. Wilko was great, but maybe he would have been even greater in a team that gave him the kind of opportunities that Carter got from the team he played in. Or to put it the other way, would Carter have looked as good at 10 for England as he has for the All Blacks?
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it'd be interesting to see what kind of player wilkinson would have been had he come through the NZ development system.

Feicarsinn said:
Again, I'd like to state that my point wasn't to start a Carter vs. Wilkinson thread, and I don't see any point in going down that road.
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lets do Tony Ward vs Ollie Campbell then :)
 
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I think we all need to just agree that there's a great 10 in the north, and a greater...I mean, great ;) 10 in the south. It's hard to absolutely compare the two (Carter/Wilkinson) because there's a slightly different style of play between the two hemis, one in which the importance of the boot seems to hold more weight in the north than in the south. (I say this because I've seen more northern international games end with 0 tries than southern internationals, so maybe it's just my impression - certainly not going on actual stats here.)

das
 
Thanks Wilko for so much rugby!!!

 
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nice post Conrad. Watched the whole thing...he (and French indiscipline) won that RWC 2003 semi-final for England.
But the team he's tormented the most with his drop goals has got to be the Wallabies.
 
smartcooky said:
You didn't mention his tackling. Wilkinson is the best tackling international 10 I can recall in my lifetime. He has delivered some rippers in his time
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One of the most under appreciated aspects of his game to the casual fan, even when he was at his broken stage, he never shied away from a tackle, fantastic player and a stand up character outside of rugby.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KncmmL1vzoc
 
steblin said:
One of the most under appreciated aspects of his game to the casual fan, even when he was at his broken stage, he never shied away from a tackle, fantastic player and a stand up character outside of rugby.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KncmmL1vzoc
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very cool vid, thx for posting. I agree, but I've always noticed his tackling, even when I wasn't all that into Rugby and just casually watching I felt like "this guy isn't even one of those huge guys and he's tackling like a motherfukker !"

It's the one side I like the most about him, because it's the ultimate sacrifice for the team. There's a ton of really good flyhalves out there with great skill and work ethic, but to put your body up front for the team...he easily could've settled for the prestige of being England's best no.10, get the job done from the boot and insuring good passing in the attack lanes; being pretty basically, getting the camera zooming on you as you aim for the posts...; but Jonnyboy did more than all that, and he isn't even naturally a big guy, he had to build that tanky frame. He did all the dirty work too, that casual fans would never notice. That's beautiful, and it's pure humility. Anything for the team, doesn't matter if it's flashy and mainstream or if it's dirty in the mud. Again, he's Jonny Wilkinson, and he easily could've settled for being the pretty boy 10, like "I'm Sir Jonny Wilkinson, tackling isn't my job and I do enough for the team..."
 
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Wilko to return as coach:

In the wake of his official retirement announcement, it now appears that Jonny Wilkinson will continue working in rugby next year as a specialist kicking coach at Toulon. "He can help us a lot," said Toulon head coach Bernard Laporte. "He will advise the players on their technical abilities, on their handling and kicking." Wilkinson has expressed his desire to help the club's younger players with a possible future role in the English side. Wilkinson will be looking to end his career on a high, with Toulon taking on Saracens in the Heineken Cup final on Saturday before facing Castres in the Top 14 final on May 31.

http://www.espnscrum.com/france-top...ist;utm_term=0_53e97ccfb4-9e05e47292-63589685
 
Right brace yourselves people for "I say nice things about Wilkinson" shocker.

I hated him as a fan. Don't read that and not this bit, it was a testament to just how bloody good he was that he was a constant thorn in my side through his career. Constant stellar performances in the white of England against Wales and everyone else I wanted to win (not to mention that DG on my 15th birthday) and in his early days in Newcastle against Bristol.

I'm not getting involved in this Wilko v Carter debate, its pointless.
 
Came at a time when English sport had gotten used to penalty shoot out failures, crappy cricket performances and Tim Henman. At last a sportsman without excuses who the opposition did actually worry about (unlike our soccer team who we just liked to think the opposition worried about) and at long last an English sportsman who didnt bottle it when it mattered scoring the winning drop goal, in the last minute of extra time, away from home, on his wrong foot which was a bit of change after seeing over paid wendyballers miss penalty after penalty. Then in 2007 when it seemed we were going to bow out of the WC with a wimper along comes your man again who even after 4 years of injury steered England to successive WC finals.

Thanks for the memories Jonny now try and relax and enjoy your life.
 
Yeah, Tallshort has hit the nail on the head concerning why Wilkinson became so popular so quickly. Rugby has always been a sport that England have enjoyed more consistent levels of success and performance at than any other but the 2003 World Cup came at a time when our cricket team was in the dumps, our only big name tennis player was more famous for losing with pluck than winning anything and the 'Golden Generation' of our national soccer team was begining to look like a bunch of spoilt children who would never produce a team as good as its constituent parts (and that is just mens sports teams). English sportsmen and women just did not cope under pressure. Obvious Wilkinson, as well as the rest of the squad, had been performing well for a number of years but at the World Cup, when it really mattered, they kept on doing so, was what really endeared him and the squad as a whole, to the nation. The fact that Wilkinson then continued to perform and thrive for the next decade just mae us love him even more.
 

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