Relegation?

[Absolutia]

The Six Nations is a western European tournament and even adding Italy seemd a little questionable at the time. Plenty of opportunities for other teams to play each other throughout the year.

World Cup should obviously be 16 teams with at least one (maybe two) eight team tournaments running simultaneously.

 

[Stubbzy]

Lots of good thoughts on this. According to last nights commentary France have been placed near the bottom for the past five years. Nearly beaten by Italy this year. France having all the structures in place but still not achieving. And a poor World Cup. We all hope that our teams will go down south and win this spring, but history would suggest otherwise.
So what can be done to promote rugby, bring on the smaller nations and at the same time push our best teams on to compete with the top three.
Let's hope that Wales turn over NZ and England bash Australia

 

[dragos03]

I went to a match once wales v japan. wales won 100 points etc............ hold on I just spent how much to watch this one sided game . But worse I think what has this done to japenese rugby. I hope you see my drift on this.

I get your point and it's actually a very good example. Japan lost by 100 points but that experience helped them and eventually Japan beat Wales and even South Africa. Every match helps a team develop, look at the last RWC where there was no 100 points trashing like in the past. Even Namibia, probably the weakest nation at the RWC, lost to the mighty All Blacks by only a 44-point margin and they almost beat Georgia in their last pool match.

So I would love my country to get the chance to play against Wales, even if we'd get thumped by 100 points (I doubt it but it's not impossible). Our boys would learn from the experience and eventually become more competitive.

 

[Car]

We should all be thankful that rugby isn't a professional sport in Germany. They would dominate.

Just like England and France dominate, right?

Playoff matches are the way to go. Why can the countries in the tiers below be relegated but not the ones in the top tier? That doesn't make much sense to me. If you don't want that, at least make sure Georgia and Romania get to play the best regularly on other occasions. They won't improve by thrashing Germany.

 

[RugbyPUBtbilisi]

Georgia has its own Billionaire. He is doing great job about finances. Rugby needs further development in Europe.

Lelos result in ENC:

6th straight ENC ***le 2011-present
Havent lost a match since 2012-present
havent lost match home since 2004-present
Havent lost match away since 2012-present
4 straight Grandslam 2013-present
8th ***le in 9 years.
Longest run Unbeaten 2012 - present

Milton Haig :

"If it's going to cost us some money [to join the Six Nations], tell us how much, and I'm sure our government and our benefactors would jump at the chance to try and finance something like that. It's not about keeping the status quo, but looking at potential, of what you could develop. And about adding value to the current competition. We can add value."

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/15050619/six-nations-georgia-romania-pipe-dream

 

[Absolutia]

I think Autumn internationals could provide a good opportunity for Georgia and Romania to get to play some tougher games. Italy, Scotland and maybe one other in a two week period would be a good series of tests.

 

[RugbyPUBtbilisi]

 

[Croket66]

What about this idea?

Pool A - Home Nations
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland


Pool B
France
Italy
Georgia
Romania




semi finals
winner Pool A - 3d Pool A
winner Pool B - 2d Pool A


games for the 5th, 6th and 7th position
2d Pool B - 4th Pool A
4th Pool A - 3d Pool B
3d Pool B - 2d Pool B


Relegation play off (home away)
4th Pool B - winner 6Nations B




Virtual tournament :


Week 1
England - Wales
Ireland - Scotland
Georgia - France
Italy - Romania


Week 2
Scotland - England
Wales - Ireland
France - Italy
Georgia - Romania


Week 3
England - Ireland
Wales - Scotland
Italy - Georgia
Romania - France


Virtual rankings
Pool A : England - Wales - Ireland - Scotland
Pool B : France - Italy - Georgia - Romania


Week 4 - bye
Georgia - Scotland (5th place play off)


Week 5 - semi finals
France - Wales
England - Ireland
Scotland - Italy (5th place play off)
Romania - Russia (promotion-relegation play off)


Week 6 - final
England - Wales (final)
France - Ireland (3d place play off)
Georgia - Italy (5th place play off)
Russia - Romania (promotion-relegation play off)


----------


Games played per team
England : Wales - Scotland - Ireland - bye - Ireland - Wales
Wales : England - Ireland - Scotland - bye - France - England
Ireland : Scotland - Wales - England - bye - England - France
Scotland : England - Ireland - Wales - Georgia - Italy - bye
France : Georgia - Italy - Romania - bye - Wales - Ireland
Italy : Romania - France - Georgia - bye - Scotland - Georgia
Georgia : France - Romania - Italy - Scotland - bye - Italy
Romania : Italy - Georgia - France - bye - Russia - Russia


BTW, Triple Crown still here, and more visible

 

[Saint4805]

Not sure I agree with Winner of Pool B v runner up of Pool A.

Surely the winner of Pool B should have to face the winner of Pool A or host Pool A's fourth place in a play-off to face the winner of Pool A in the semi.

The flaw in the plan is that the best team in Pool B has a better chance of reaching the semis than the worst team in Pool A

 

[ncurd]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35961499

Head of World Rugby saying we should introduce it.

Whist no major issue with the principal if it was forced upon us, surely the Rugby Championship should have to do the same with the Pacific Islands Cup?

 

[smartcooky]

Before relegation in the 6N can be considered, there needs to be a few changes and this relates back in part to the global season

1. Division 2 of the six nations has be run at the same time and the same format as Division 1, not this half-arsed format over two years that the Nations Cup runs under.

2. Give the Six Nations a standalone set of weekends; a genuine International window. If you don't and there is club rugby going on at the same time, the Division 2 teams will never be at full strength because the Clubs will use their financial clout to pressure players from the smaller European nations to play for club instead of country.

If it went ahead, then the 2017 Six Nations might look like this

Division1
England (4)
Wales (5)
Ireland (7)
France (8)
Scotland (9)
Italy (14)

Division 2
Georgia (12)
Romania (16)
Russia (19)
Spain* (22)
Belgium* (23)
Germany* (24)

Are the last three strong enough to compete meaningfully in this competititon?

 

[gaston le gaff]

Against each other for sure and they will learn from the better Nations of Div 2, the better Nations will also improve if promotion is available, Georgia have already proven that they are a much improved National team. Italy has shown imense improvement since 2000 when they entered even though the last couple of seasons have not been great, but they are no longer the whipping boys of the 1st Div.
HONESTLY i do not think it will happen as Scotland willl fight tooth and nail not to go do, when eveyone knows it would be them. The competition must move forward with relegation, and promotion however it would be, and the introduction of bonus points would also enhance the competition.

 

[FrenchFan]

I'm all for a relegation-promotion system in 6N. The competition needs a major overhaul.

What has Lapasset done for the 6N during his term? Georgia and Romania have regularly qualified for the WC, they deserve a shot at Division 1 of 6N.

On their form of last 5 years, Italy and France would be looking at relegation sooner than they think.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I think Autumn internationals could provide a good opportunity for Georgia and Romania to get to play some tougher games. Italy, Scotland and maybe one other in a two week period would be a good series of tests.

Totally agree. The AIs is the way to get them the exposure before considering rejigging the 6N. Personally I'd rather see Georgia against England or even the Saxons than Eng v Aus for the 27th consecutive year. Less of the SH super powers and more of the minnows. The money men would never wear it of course...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think a yearly European championship could work, seed the teams based on the previous year's result and get two groups of four that play home and away and then a final between the winners in a predetermined venue.

If it were done next year it could hypothetically look like this:

Pool A (seed):
England (1)
Ireland (3)
Italy (6)
Romania (8)

Pool B:
Wales (2)
France (4)
Scotland (5)
Georgia (7)

And then replace all those "emerging nations" competitions in the summer and replace them with qualifiers for next years competition for the two bottom sides who don't qualify automatically. I think that we'd need a European super rugby style competition to replace the domestic leagues. Both would result in bigger TV revenues and at least equal funds generated from gates each year.

 

[FrenchFan]

I think that we'd need a European super rugby style competition to replace the domestic leagues. Both would result in bigger TV revenues and at least equal funds generated from gates each year.

We need a Euro super style competition to replace the ..existing European cups. Not the domestic leagues. What a ghastly idea:huh:

The clubs will expand their revenues by playing SH clubs, enlarging their home stadium capacity (Toulouse, Racing) and marketing themselves in Asia which the bigger clubs (Toulouse Toulon Racing) have already started doing - not by replacing their domestic leagues. They need their domestic league to survive.

The T14 has never been more popular. The final in Barcelona is already sold out 2 mths ahead. They've sold +90 000 tickets.

 

[ratsapprentice]

We need a Euro super style competition to replace the ..existing European cups. Not the domestic leagues.

Not really a super style competition at all then...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We need a Euro super style competition to replace the ..existing European cups. Not the domestic leagues. What a ghastly idea:huh:

The clubs will expand their revenues by playing SH clubs, enlarging their home stadium capacity (Toulouse, Racing) and marketing themselves in Asia which the bigger clubs (Toulouse Toulon Racing) have already started doing - not by replacing their domestic leagues. They need their domestic league to survive.

The T14 has never been more popular. The final in Barcelona is already sold out 2 mths ahead. They've sold +90 000 tickets.

Soccer is going the way of having a European Super league within the next 10 years to make more money and it'd definitely work for rugby too. TV revenue is the way to make money these days, the more lucrative a product you have, the more revenue and coverage you'll get which leads to exponential growth. The Top 14 is light years away from making money in Asia but with a European super league you have the best players in the world playing against each other every week all across Western Europe you'll definitely be able to sell it in Asia and North America because it'd be the best product in rugby behind the World Cup. The final of this competition would have no problem selling out the Camp Nou or Wembley, there'd likely be regular season games that could do it after it establishes itself, it's also a viable product to sell out stadiums in North America too, it would most likely eclipse the earning potential European rugby has in its current format.

The Top 14 et al would become development tournaments like the ITM cup which will help the national sides.

 

[FrenchFan]

Soccer is going the way of having a European Super league within the next 10 years to make more money and it'd definitely work for rugby too. TV revenue is the way to make money these days, the more lucrative a product you have, the more revenue and coverage you'll get which leads to exponential growth. The Top 14 is light years away from making money in Asia but with a European super league you have the best players in the world playing against each other every week all across Western Europe you'll definitely be able to sell it in Asia and North America because it'd be the best product in rugby behind the World Cup. The final of this competition would have no problem selling out the Camp Nou or Wembley, there'd likely be regular season games that could do it after it establishes itself, it's also a viable product to sell out stadiums in North America too, it would most likely eclipse the earning potential European rugby has in its current format.

The Top 14 et al would become development tournaments like the ITM cup which will help the national sides.

No problem I'm all for a new european competition. The French clubs are not interested in the Challenge Cup and the Champions Cup has taken a back seat as well. They've been fielding 2nd string sides esp. in Challenge, so any revamp is welcome. The clubs will consider a new European competition but not at the expense of their own league. Not a chance.

'European Super League' sounds really cool but who is going to drive this?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No problem I'm all for a new european competition. The French clubs are not interested in the Challenge Cup and the Champions Cup has taken a back seat as well. They've been fielding 2nd string sides esp. in Challenge, so any revamp is welcome. The clubs will consider a new European competition but not at the expense of their own league. Not a chance.

'European Super League' sounds really cool but who is going to drive this?

Bouledjal and friends would likely go for it, private investors would see the commercial success that the soccer one would bring and attempt to introduce it on a smaller scale in rugby. The top 14 sides would definitely leave or have the top 14 as their secondary competition if they were to make more money from a season long super league.

As good as it is to have a domestic league I think a season long European league would be more lucrative and entertaining for everyone, apart from fans of teams that don't make the cut. It'll happen too, there have been mourners in rugby and executive meetings in soccer, we'll follow what European soccer does as we do now.