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Relegation?

Stubbzy

Academy Player
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
3
How about 8 nations?
Two pools of 4 teams.
Relegation for bottom group 1.
Promotion for winner group 2.
Give Geogia and Romania the opportunity to improve.
Group 1 would be fierce competition, no easy games, just like the souther hemisphere competition.
 
:wall:

Won't happen plus you'll probably just end up 4th 5th switching every season.
 
Why does that matter ? That happens regularly in most sports .....
Yes but does it help in bulging teams and more competative competition. Exeter are the only team I can think of that have actually gained from this.
 
Terrible idea. Georgia and Romania are still years away from being able to sustain the intensity of a yearly tournament. If you think Scotland and Italy have been bad,this would make a mockery of a top tournament.
 
Terrible idea. Georgia and Romania are still years away from being able to sustain the intensity of a yearly tournament. If you think Scotland and Italy have been bad,this would make a mockery of a top tournament.

But Georgia are at least equal to Italy . They have a poor team with one talisman . The 6N would be no worse with Georgia instead of Italy imo

I'd prefer a 2 tiered competition with home and away personally but I understand there are a lot of complications to this
 
Terrible idea. Georgia and Romania are still years away from being able to sustain the intensity of a yearly tournament. If you think Scotland and Italy have been bad,this would make a mockery of a top tournament.

They've earned the right to at least give it a go. Attitudes like that are exactly whats preventing the game from spreading like it needs to. Georgia had 50k in today to see their win. Romania are a bit of a way off but seeing Georgia being given the chance could give nations like Romania, Spain etc the incentive.
 
As I said in the other thread, there needs to be significant, fundamental change to the European calendar/structure in order for this to be a positive/viable move.

Romania are not really in the picture yet, Georgia definitely are however.
 
They've earned the right to at least give it a go. Attitudes like that are exactly whats preventing the game from spreading like it needs to. Georgia had 50k in today to see their win. Romania are a bit of a way off but seeing Georgia being given the chance could give nations like Romania, Spain etc the incentive.

Right,first things first. My "attitude" was a comment on,in my opinion, a terrible proposal of two groups of four. Georgia are doing fantastic but simply do not have the infrastructure to the required level to sustain the required intensity. There, I've said it twice,is that enough?All top tier teams try to tie their best players to home league or super league competitions for a reason. Basically,but certainly not exclusively, continuity. Georgia do deserve a chance to grow. I have been an advocate of this and Romania for many years. But NOT at the cost of the integrity of a great competition.

Before you start frothing at the mouth and battering holes in your keyboard,remember I objected to a specific proposal, that being two groups,Four teams.
For our sport to continue to grow we need to encourage grass root development in these countries to obtain viable league structures, allowing teams from these leagues to then compete in European competition.
Setting up some farcical "kids" table next to the "adults" table only compounds the problems, it does not develop sustainable repeatable growth. We should always be looking to make the 6 nations stronger, not water it down.
 
Georgia are currently higher in the world rankings than Italy, so they have to be at least considered at some point in time.
The 6 nations is a great competition but all things need to evolve. The World Cup showed that we in the north still lag behind, maybe the level of competition needs to be more intense between the top teams. So less games, against comparable teams could deliver a higher intensity. Factor in relegation/promotion as an incentive to win.
 
Georgia are currently higher in the world rankings than Italy, so they have to be at least considered at some point in time.
The 6 nations is a great competition but all things need to evolve. The World Cup showed that we in the north still lag behind, maybe the level of competition needs to be more intense between the top teams. So less games, against comparable teams could deliver a higher intensity. Factor in relegation/promotion as an incentive to win.

I'm sorry,but if you look at football and it's irrelevant qualifiers, "less games, against comparable teams" leads to irrelevant predictable results and a lowering of standards. The odd " giant killing " is exactly that...odd. Less games against comparable teams doesn't not,nor will ever, work. When Northern hemisphere teams want a challenge,to rate themselves,to challenge themselves, they do not go on tour to France,Scotland or Wales. This is not because familiarity breeds contempt. It is because they want to test themselves against the best.
The southern hemisphere.
They have a smaller breeding pool than we do. But most agree they are generally better.
They are not better because they consistently play Samoa,Fiji, or Tonga.
They are better because they have a system that feeds itself,a structure. Self sustaining.
Let's give Georgia,Romania,Spain more funding to establish club or regional rugby to feed the system.
Let's not patronise them by saying here's your spot,get on with it.
This is the only way these national teams can become self sustaining and beneficial to a future 7 or 8 or 9 nations.
 
Georgia are def set for the six nations and IMO could take a few teams to the sword.

Have an excellent forward
Have a Millionaire backer
Have a very talented set of backs coming up esp in age grade.
Haven't got a first class football team against them.
 
7
Georgia are def set for the six nations and IMO could take a few teams to the sword.

Have an excellent forward
Have a Millionaire backer
Have a very talented set of backs coming up esp in age grade.
Haven't got a first class football team against them.

Scotland suffer constantly,today being a good example,because of lack of depth. (Finn out, Weir,who's nowhere near good enough for international rugby,in). You are really going to argue the point Georgia are there yet?
 
Yeh but I think Rugby in Georgia has way more growth in it if they get promoted up. Esp since Football isn't as strong in Georgia as it is Scotland.

You just don't want relegation in case Scotland have a bad year.

Honestly.
 
Yeh but I think Rugby in Georgia has way more growth in it if they get promoted up. Esp since Football isn't as strong in Georgia as it is Scotland.

You just don't want relegation in case Scotland have a bad year.

Honestly.

Ahah, Tigs, thought you'd been quiet. I agree Georgian rugby is doing great. Have you heard about a team by the name of Zebre? If we're going to encourage Georgian rugby and make it flourish to European standards, which will feed their national team ongoing. We need to establish a sustainable,replenishable model. Never afraid of healthy competition. Let's give Georgia that.
 
Should there be at least a promotion/relegation playoff to allow a path to the Six Nations? Absolutely, as soon as possible.

Are Georgia and Romania ready for the Six Nations? Not yet probably, but they can't ever become ready without a way to the top. You simply cannot progress any further without better tests and without playing in a better competition. I don't think GEO/ROM would win the promotion playoff now and even if they do they would record some heavy defeats in the 6N due to a lack of squad depth. But eventually promotion would happen and in time these nations (and others) would get used to the higher level, creating a much more competitive European rugby environment.

The real issue right now is off the pitch. GEO/ROM are Eastern European countries with weak economies, especially Georgia. While Georgia got 50 thousand people in the stadium for today's match, they only paid like 1$ per ticket, so the commercial potential is very low. When they had a tournament with 5$ tickets some years ago, they couldn't sellout a stadium with 2000 seats. In Romania fans pay 5-10$ for a ticket but attendance at national team games is only 3-5000 people. But again, the prospect of the Six Nations would hugely boost interest, sponsorships and ticket prices.

The ENC is a good example of the benefits of promotion/relegation for rugby development. The ENC consisted of 6 teams, of which 5 used to never get relegated (Georgia, Romania, Russia, Spain and Portugal), while the 6th team would promote for one year, record some heavy defeats, and be relegated fast (among the teams that promoted are Belgium, Ukraine and the Czech Republic). Germany promoted a few times and got relegated but the added experience helped them. This year they beat Portugal and drew with Spain so they will stay up, with Portugal (a former RWC nation) being relegated while Belgium promotes again. In time, maybe more nations will climb up the promotion ladder from the bottom tournaments.

At the 2015 RWC, Italy beat Romania by 10 points (Romania only had 4 days of rest), after a match in which Romania dominated both territory and posession. Does this 10 points margin justify the HUGE gap in the opportunities that Italy and Romania get? Italy are a part of the 6N, Pro 12, RCC, Challenge Cup, top junior tournaments, full Tier 1 test schedule every year (even vs the All Blacks). Romania is not allowed in any of these tournaments and we haven't played a single Tier 1 test in TEN YEARS! Does this sound fair? How can Romania possibly bridge the gap without any opportunity to play quality opposition?

Btw, surely the Six Nations will be reformed sooner or later but I hope they will not choose to just invite GEO/ROM or both and create a ringfenced 7N or 8N. The path needs to stay open, so if another nation becomes competitive they will not be locked out like we are today. Russia, Germany, Spain and any other country in Europe shoudl know that if they decide to invest in rugby and develop the sport, nothing will stop them from playing with the best.

Sorry for the long rant :)
 
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actually your not far wrong there. Before Italy touched the oval ball. Romania were the best around in that part of Europe. But heyo.

Today is another story. spain, portugal, romania and more have a pedigree in rugby if only we allow them too.
But what is the point of Italy being thrashed by Wales or England ? who enjoys that ?

I look at the players and think ..... what it must feel like to turn up and be thrashed. Yet Italy do every year. Same goes for the world cup it a farse. Why not a plate competition .
or anything.

I went to a match once wales v japan. wales won 100 points etc............ hold on I just spent how much to watch this one sided game . But worse I think what has this done to japenese rugby. I hope you see my drift on this.

Also will add I would enjoy watching on super saturday a match between Romania v italy for the plate etc .

Just thought I would add drago...... Ok your tickets are cheap.....but the TV rights would be more if sky or BBC were involved. haha
 
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We should all be thankful that rugby isn't a professional sport in Germany. They would dominate.
 
Should there be at least a promotion/relegation playoff to allow a path to the Six Nations? Absolutely, as soon as possible.

Are Georgia and Romania ready for the Six Nations? Not yet probably, but they can't ever become ready without a way to the top. You simply cannot progress any further without better tests and without playing in a better competition. I don't think GEO/ROM would win the promotion playoff now and even if they do they would record some heavy defeats in the 6N due to a lack of squad depth. But eventually promotion would happen and in time these nations (and others) would get used to the higher level, creating a much more competitive European rugby environment.

The real issue right now is off the pitch. GEO/ROM are Eastern European countries with weak economies, especially Georgia. While Georgia got 50 thousand people in the stadium for today's match, they only paid like 1$ per ticket, so the commercial potential is very low. When they had a tournament with 5$ tickets some years ago, they couldn't sellout a stadium with 2000 seats. In Romania fans pay 5-10$ for a ticket but attendance at national team games is only 3-5000 people. But again, the prospect of the Six Nations would hugely boost interest, sponsorships and ticket prices.

The ENC is a good example of the benefits of promotion/relegation for rugby development. The ENC consisted of 6 teams, of which 5 used to never get relegated (Georgia, Romania, Russia, Spain and Portugal), while the 6th team would promote for one year, record some heavy defeats, and be relegated fast (among the teams that promoted are Belgium, Ukraine and the Czech Republic). Germany promoted a few times and got relegated but the added experience helped them. This year they beat Portugal and drew with Spain so they will stay up, with Portugal (a former RWC nation) being relegated while Belgium promotes again. In time, maybe more nations will climb up the promotion ladder from the bottom tournaments.

At the 2015 RWC, Italy beat Romania by 10 points (Romania only had 4 days of rest), after a match in which Romania dominated both territory and posession. Does this 10 points margin justify the HUGE gap in the opportunities that Italy and Romania get? Italy are a part of the 6N, Pro 12, RCC, Challenge Cup, top junior tournaments, full Tier 1 test schedule every year (even vs the All Blacks). Romania is not allowed in any of these tournaments and we haven't played a single Tier 1 test in TEN YEARS! Does this sound fair? How can Romania possibly bridge the gap without any opportunity to play quality opposition?

Btw, surely the Six Nations will be reformed sooner or later but I hope they will not choose to just invite GEO/ROM or both and create a ringfenced 7N or 8N. The path needs to stay open, so if another nation becomes competitive they will not be locked out like we are today. Russia, Germany, Spain and any other country in Europe shoudl know that if they decide to invest in rugby and develop the sport, nothing will stop them from playing with the best.

Sorry for the long rant :)

Great post dragos03. I'm not trying to keep countries down. Far from it.I also don't profess to have all the answers. I just,personally would rather see these countries come from a position of stability and strength. Yes this route takes longer,but is ultimately sustainable. Yes "on their day" Georgia can cause an upset. On the other hand,how many beatings will they take because of a lack of depth? I'm a Scottish fan and we live on the edge. We have a shrinking playing base and it shows. Georgia has a growing base. Nurture it,build it. I wish I had the sure fire winning answer in how to elevate Georgia to the next level,but I don't. Not many do,but they will tell you different.

European rugby needs to spread it's money around and build in areas of growth ie: Georgia, Romania,Spain.
A combined league? Plate completions? Guaranteed Autumn international or combined development series between A sides? I don't know but I don't think arbitry extension of 6 nations is the answer,either for the existing nations or striving developing nations.
Loved your post and your passion.
 
We should all be thankful that rugby isn't a professional sport in Germany. They would dominate.

It's growing really fast over here.
7.000 watched Germany - Spain today, which is a really great attendance for a sport whose top flight league is non pro over here.
I'm not too sure about relegation would be a good idea for the Six Nations, but at least there need to be more competitive matches for the smaller countries to improve and to help Rugby grow,
 

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