RC2006 Info

[edinburgh_gunner]

Sorry to bombared you with questions, but we really do appreciate this action you and swordfish are taking. Bit of a technical issue this one - Will the kits and ingame graphics be incoded or easy to edit? For those of us who edit games for fun? And on the issue of kits, will Scotland have the new strip? The screens I have seen so far have shown a fake version. Thanks.

 

[jimmy44]

Originally posted by Trev@Swordfish+Oct 22 2005, 04:54 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trev@Swordfish @ Oct 22 2005, 04:54 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-jimmy44

@Oct 21 2005, 10:35 PM
I thought this was Q&A thread but it seems to have gone dead! I really want to know how 'deep' rugby challenge 2006 will be compared to the previuos attempt which looked good but was too arcadey and simple. (no offence to Swordfish team)

That's a really difficult question to answer easily on a forum. It really depends on why you felt WCR was arcadey. RC2006 looks a bit more realistic, has much more realistic animations and does have more depth to the gameplay.

It is still not a simulation though - that was never our intention. [/b]

Hi Trev,

Thanks for your reply - I think having read all the posts this is looking much more the rugby game people are looking for. I will certainly being going out and buying it.

James

 

[loratadine]

yea i think i will too, the game is stacked with promise

 

[Flamingo]

does sound quality

but will it challange jlr?

 

[forumuser]

I really want to know how 'deep' rugby challenge 2006 will be compared to the previuos attempt which looked good but was too arcadey and simple. (no offence to Swordfish team)

That's a really difficult question to answer easily on a forum. It really depends on why you felt WCR was arcadey. [/quote]
trev

when talking about depth, imo the main problem with both jlr and wcr is the lack of options when it comes to backline play, not just talking about moves, but the ability to play through the midfield as the only option in both jlr and wcr seems to be to pass it to the wnger and scoot round, which obviously limits the gameplay, particcularly when there is no forward play to speak of. something which as i understand it you have fixed by introducng broken tackles? anyway the following Q's i believe address my take on the issue of "gameplay", or might be part of the problem?

Q: can you pass out of the tackle?
Q: are there set moves
Q: is the camera view the same as last time

thankyou

 

[Mr. Laxative]

I'm quite sure that there are numerous camera angles this time...

But your question about set moves is a good one. Please let the answer be yes! I'd also like varying set plays for different teams and conditions.

 

[CeeJay]

I cant remeber where but ive already read that ther are no set moves.

 

[Mr. Laxative]

Bugger... hopefully there are. Trev can you say anything about this?

 

[Los Lover]

Originally posted by Jacko@Oct 27 2005, 11:08 AM
I'm quite sure that there are numerous camera angles this time...

But your question about set moves is a good one. Please let the answer be yes! I'd also like varying set plays for different teams and conditions.

No jacko.............the most important of those questions CLEARLY was:

"can you pass out of the tackle"

anyone can see that.

Notice there is no answer.......

 

[Mr. Laxative]

I couldn't see that as they were all marked as Q: which seems to me that there isn't a specified order. If it were marked 1: 2: 3: then maybe i would have posted differently. As for that pass out of tackles question - i did not answer that because i did not know. Please do not 'jump' to conlusions!

Um... off topic - but your signature seems to quote Kaftka. If I am not mistaken that is a sarcastic statement! Maybe kaf could confirm this?

 

[ak47]

there are offloads

i have copies of the posts if they have been deleted.

 

[Mr. Laxative]

Thankyou, at last that has been cleared up!

 

[forumuser]

Trev
not sure how everyone else feels about this but it has also occured to me that part of the problem with the crowding in the midfield that you get in both wcr & jlr might be due firstly to:

The pace of the game.
Pace at which the defending back row, or whoever it is, get across to tackle in the midfield Not even Micheal Jones was that fast!
Pace at which the backs themselves move , particularly defending ones

Both of these might lead to congestion in midfield. Not saying i want a slow game but sarificing a bit of speed to open up midfield might work?

Secondly:
Not sure how RC06 works but in neither WCR or JLR could you employ basic rugby techniques of particularly well; Drawing the man and passing to the extra player (although i did like the way players looped around in to create extra man in wcr) or running at the inside shoulder of the defender to stop him drifting out. By opening up a gap between two defenders in this way you create a whole for the man outside you to burst through. The only problem here is that most rugby games don't have much control of passing. Just l/r or miss 1 l/r. although ea recently did the "flick on" well, there is no option to weight the pass as you get in soccer games. By depressing the pass button for less time a weaker pop pass could bring the palyer outside you closer in and allow him to go through the gap instead of straight in the defending man. In WCR & JLR there is a frustrating amount of passes where your team mate receives both defending man and ball at the same time; hospital passes.

From the top of my head i recall that ea rugby 2001 did these, apart of the passing bit, quite well, i guess the rear view camera angle helped? Perhaps this and the way the defenders scream across affects midfield play, which should be one of the most exciting parts of the game - opening up the opposition backline. Not that it should be too easy on the other hand. Perhaps this is what you mean by balancing up the game play?

i know they're not really questions but any comments, by anyone, would be welcome

thanks

 

[Mr. Laxative]

Good ideas, but it is too late to be included in RC2006. Maybe next version. If EA were to make a decent Rugby game they would need to have a similar rucking system and the same passing system to '01. This shows how much better RC should be... it probably won't need this. I think it needs some customisable set plays though. I mean so you can select them for your team and have say 4 styles for a game... defensive 1 and 2 and attack 1 and 2. Chosing this would mean you could adjust to conditions better.

 

[Trev@Swordfish]

Originally posted by forumuser@Oct 27 2005, 07:18 AM
when talking about depth, imo the main problem with both jlr and wcr is the lack of options when it comes to backline play, not just talking about moves, but the ability to play through the midfield as the only option in both jlr and wcr seems to be to pass it to the wnger and scoot round, which obviously limits the gameplay, particcularly when there is no forward play to speak of. something which as i understand it you have fixed by introducng broken tackles? anyway the following Q's i believe address my take on the issue of "gameplay", or might be part of the problem?

Q: can you pass out of the tackle?
Q: are there set moves
Q: is the camera view the same as last time

thankyou

Yes you can pass out of the tackle. We spent a lot of time looking at this. In JLR offloads were too powerful. Once you mastered them you could totally own an opponent who was not quite as good. They were very unbalanced. In WCR we left them out as we felt they did not work well with the game mechanics. In RC2006 they are back in but we have made them a little more erratic. If you choose to offload there is a much higher chance of an interception than if you pass before the tackle. So if you draw the player and pass out of the tackle, you take the risk that you get turned over.

No set moves - other than dropping deep for a kick and box-kicks.

There are a number of different cameras. All are slightly different to WCR. They are tweaked to suit the speed of the game. RC2006 is not quite as frantic as WCR, but we have maintained the fluidity.

 

[Trev@Swordfish]

Originally posted by forumuser@Oct 27 2005, 08:33 PM
Trev
not sure how everyone else feels about this but it has also occured to me that part of the problem with the crowding in the midfield that you get in both wcr & jlr might be due firstly to:

The pace of the game.
Pace at which the defending back row, or whoever it is, get across to tackle in the midfield Not even Micheal Jones was that fast!
Pace at which the backs themselves move , particularly defending ones

Both of these might lead to congestion in midfield. Not saying i want a slow game but sarificing a bit of speed to open up midfield might work?

Secondly:
Not sure how RC06 works but in neither WCR or JLR could you employ basic rugby techniques of particularly well; Drawing the man and passing to the extra player (although i did like the way players looped around in to create extra man in wcr) or running at the inside shoulder of the defender to stop him drifting out. By opening up a gap between two defenders in this way you create a whole for the man outside you to burst through. The only problem here is that most rugby games don't have much control of passing. Just l/r or miss 1 l/r. although ea recently did the "flick on" well, there is no option to weight the pass as you get in soccer games. By depressing the pass button for less time a weaker pop pass could bring the palyer outside you closer in and allow him to go through the gap instead of straight in the defending man. In WCR & JLR there is a frustrating amount of passes where your team mate receives both defending man and ball at the same time; hospital passes.

From the top of my head i recall that ea rugby 2001 did these, apart of the passing bit, quite well, i guess the rear view camera angle helped? Perhaps this and the way the defenders scream across affects midfield play, which should be one of the most exciting parts of the game - opening up the opposition backline. Not that it should be too easy on the other hand. Perhaps this is what you mean by balancing up the game play?

i know they're not really questions but any comments, by anyone, would be welcome

thanks

Appreciate your post and it's cool that you have obviously thought about this - and I do agree with you - neither JLR or WCR really utilised standard rugby tactics.

In terms of the pace - we actually have a test-bed where we can vary the speed of the players. We have spent a huge amount of time honing our animation engine, AI engine and control mechanics (passing, kicking etc.) to all blend at a speed that feels fluid and graceful. When you slow the game down it just feels clunky and you still have the same issues - they are just in slow motion.

Team sports game AI is pretty complex and adding features often results in annoying issues that you do not foresee. Remember, the AI players are totally dumb - they only do what we program them to. As an example, we did make the full-back join the line when attacking. The problem is, every time you are attacking and spin the ball wide, he becomes offensive and you are left with a gaping hole at the back. This is fairly cool every now and again, but it becomes really annoying and very easy to exploit when you have worked out what is happening with your opponents line-up.

Actually, that sounds like I'm making excuses for the AI being dumb - and that's not the case. Our AI engine is very complex and pretty smart - you just have to tweak the gameplay to match the limitations.

At the end of the day, if our AI or gameplay is crap, no-one will buy the game.

With regard to WCR, the gameplay was much simpler. If I am honest, we did not make that game for the people who post on this site. It was made for casual rugby fans and it did really well. RC2006 has more dimensions to the play. This makes it harder for the casual fan - I think it is a much tougher game.

Not sure if all that makes sense!

 

[forumuser]

thanks for taking the time to reply, it does make sense.

it also sounds encouraging, from your post there does seem to be alot more depth in rc 2006 which should add to longevity something which was an issue before. i certainly like the sound of fluidity over frantic and the idea of passing out of the tackle being a risk/reward balance, which it certainly is, and that is where the excitement lies along with the ability to play different game plans according to your team. rather than a poor team always losing the ball in contact you now have the option to play a different style, kicking or through the forwards or whatever....

looking forward to it

ta!

 

[The Kiddie]

Originally posted by Trev@Swordfish@Oct 29 2005, 05:38 AM
Trev, can you (or anyone else) clarify if the full back joins the attacking line?

From what you were saying from an AI point of view I guess the preferred answer would be "You have the option make him join, or not"

Just like when you can drop the Fly Half back into the pocket, and then recall him back into the line if you wish.

This is the best coz it gives you options... afterall if he is in the pocket, you don't have to pass to him, but it gives you options and makes you opponents think!

From a personal perspective not having your FB in the line was very frustrating, particularly when you have players like J.Robinson playing 15.

 

[spearman]

TO second The Kiddie...to what extent is it posible to create moves. As said above like bringing the full back into the line. What about switching?

 

[CeeJay]

Trev already aid the only moves are box kicking, and a pocket kick from no. 10 I guess that means no to the fullback question. Youll hav to put J.rob at wing and not let him go to waste.