Razor blacks

[Umaga's Witness]

What players will be in the all blacks next year or during the next four years?

We've had twenty years of some sort of coach continuation which is now going to stop (except Ryan continuing as assistant). The type of player we have come to expect will or won't be an all black may therefore change.

Also the crusaders ethos might come to fore, eg hard work and having honest conversations, everyone contributing to the preparations and reviews. Of course is fans don't have a huge amount of insight into what players are like off the pitch.

Will we see players continue if they are likely to be old for the next World Cup?? Phased out or just gotten rid of?

Have the selections in the forwards recently been mostly foster or mostly Ryan?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

What players will be in the all blacks next year or during the next four years?

We've had twenty years of some sort of coach continuation which is now going to stop (except Ryan continuing as assistant). The type of player we have come to expect will or won't be an all black may therefore change.

Also the crusaders ethos might come to fore, eg hard work and having honest conversations, everyone contributing to the preparations and reviews. Of course is fans don't have a huge amount of insight into what players are like off the pitch.

Will we see players continue if they are likely to be old for the next World Cup?? Phased out or just gotten rid of?

Have the selections in the forwards recently been mostly foster or mostly Ryan?

i honestly dont know what we're going to see, there are a few guys retiring or going overseas but not a huge exodus i dont think so will be interesting how much of a reset we get....will razor drop guys with question marks over them or coach them up to be better

the other thing thats not talked about much is 3 (is it 3 or 4?) of the super teams will have new coaches next year due to being called up to the AB's and what ramifications that will have on players coming through

 

[40/20]

i honestly dont know what we're going to see, there are a few guys retiring or going overseas but not a huge exodus i dont think so will be interesting how much of a reset we get....will razor drop guys with question marks over them or coach them up to be better

the other thing thats not talked about much is 3 (is it 3 or 4?) of the super teams will have new coaches next year due to being called up to the AB's and what ramifications that will have on players coming through

Yea agree, so many things will play a part and with the SR uncertainty, so much could change by the time Robertson's merry men have their first selection meeting.

On whether Ryan or Foster drove the forward selections... my gut says Foster has mainly left that to Ryan. So from that perspective next year's starting pack may look pretty similar except for a new locking partner for Barrett and a new blindside.

For the sake of some crystal ball gazing, maybe something like (with the usual form/injury caveats):

1. de Groot, 2. Taylor , 3. Lomax, 4. Vaa'i, 5. Barrett, 6. Blackadder, 7. Cane (c), 8. Savea, 9. Roigard, 10. McKenzie, 11. Tele'a, 12. Barrett, 13. Ioane, 14. Narawa, 15. Jordan, 16. Taukei'aho, 17. Williams, 18. Newell, 19. Lord, 20. Papali'I, 21. Christie, 22. Perofeta, 23. Lienert-Brown.

Lock and first five depth is a concern as we know, but with the likes of Reece, Tupaea and Stevenson lurking amongst the backline contenders, and Jacobson, Grace and Finau amongst the loosies, things are fairly ok elsewhere.

One thing I'm very hopeful of... that Vern Cotter somehow unlocks Akria and Sotutu, and back into test contention. Two of the most outrageously talented loosies on the planet IMO, it would be a travesty if they drifted offshore.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I think some more crusaders could come through, not because of bias, but because robertson is likely to believe in the philosophies that have been used to pick these guys in the first place. Eg Gallagher.

A couple of non crusaders players I wonder about are du pleases kirifi and ngatoa ah kuoi. Both hard workers. But neither would fit the mould we are used to expecting. Kirifi too small. Ah kuoi too short for a lock, not explosive enough for a 6 (very jonno gibbes or Ruben Thorne like).

I don't know if Harmon will still be around?

And then where does the punch come from? Cameron suafoa is a big strong boy. Lio-willie a crusader.

Do hoskins or akira come back? I love that they can pass the ball. I do think akira, at only 28, has already lost some of his explosiveness. But hoskins is only 25.

Other solid players yet to be considered include Devon Flanders. I wrongly predicted a few years back that they'd take Xavier numia on as a project player and help him work in his scrummaging. He is now getting quite good in that department anyhow, so wondering for he'll come in, but you'd think crusadersbohilosophy is very much scrum first. So, Ainsley?

Here are some ages of some locks and loosies
tuipolotu 30
Scooter 29
Vaai 23
Lord 22
Cane 31
Savea 30
Akira 28
Jacobson 26
Sotutu 25
Blackadder 28
Papalii 26

Harmon 28
Kirifi 26
Flanders 24
Ah kuoi 24

I personally don't think akira, savea, cane, or tuipoluto will make it to the next World Cup

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I think some more crusaders could come through, not because of bias, but because robertson is likely to believe in the philosophies that have been used to pick these guys in the first place. Eg Gallagher.

A couple of non crusaders players I wonder about are du pleases kirifi and ngatoa ah kuoi. Both hard workers. But neither would fit the mould we are used to expecting. Kirifi too small. Ah kuoi too short for a lock, not explosive enough for a 6 (very jonno gibbes or Ruben Thorne like).

I don't know if Harmon will still be around?

And then where does the punch come from? Cameron suafoa is a big strong boy. Lio-willie a crusader.

Do hoskins or akira come back? I love that they can pass the ball. I do think akira, at only 28, has already lost some of his explosiveness. But hoskins is only 25.

Other solid players yet to be considered include Devon Flanders. I wrongly predicted a few years back that they'd take Xavier numia on as a project player and help him work in his scrummaging. He is now getting quite good in that department anyhow, so wondering for he'll come in, but you'd think crusadersbohilosophy is very much scrum first. So, Ainsley?

Here are some ages of some locks and loosies
tuipolotu 30
Scooter 29
Vaai 23
Lord 22
Cane 31
Savea 30
Akira 28
Jacobson 26
Sotutu 25
Blackadder 28
Papalii 26

Harmon 28
Kirifi 26
Flanders 24
Ah kuoi 24

I personally don't think akira, savea, cane, or tuipoluto will make it to the next World Cup

i think there is also the aspect of the Crusaders have the arguably the best development structure...so it should produce the most top quality players

im kind of hoping he comes in with a really critical eye

Harmon for example, big fan, think he could have done a great job for the AB's....but i dont want a 32 year old at the next world cup unless they've been a GOAT with over 100 caps

i would be willing to with some more painful result next year if i can see us building for the future...grabbing some wins next year and the year after....to only then realise we need to bring some new blood through before the next world cup....will kill me

 

[Umaga's Witness]

i think there is also the aspect of the Crusaders have the arguably the best development structure...so it should produce the most top quality players

im kind of hoping he comes in with a really critical eye

Harmon for example, big fan, think he could have done a great job for the AB's....but i dont want a 32 year old at the next world cup unless they've been a GOAT with over 100 caps

i would be willing to with some more painful result next year if i can see us building for the future...grabbing some wins next year and the year after....to only then realise we need to bring some new blood through before the next world cup....will kill me

Yeah I kinda feel like the number of the transition players will be limited and the transition phase will be short.
Who would they even be? Savea (who I doubt will stick around, reckon he'll play for samoa next wc), cane (can't see razor picking him - he's fozzies man), tuipolotu (doubt it), Harmon (to your point doesn't have international experience anyway), ofa (not even a starter), moody (is 35), akira (doubt it, not even in favour with Ryan presumably). In conclusion possibly there is no one they will pick who they don't think is a realistic chance if making the next World Cup

Compared to last time around South Africa, Ireland, and Argentina will all be losing quite a bit of top level talent (also depending on how they do their transitions to some extent) so I think we can afford to be more risky with selections. Plus all the firsts have already been accomplished so there is less to hang onto. As long as we don't lose to Scotland, but I can't see that happening.

France is the biggest threat, presuming they keep their coaches. If they toured us next year for example, and we had an overly fresh side, that would be a massive challenge.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I'm also intrigued by who they'll pick at halfback. Because your whole attack style Is affected by who you pick there. Do we revolve our game plan around the likes of roigard and Fakatava? Neither are at all similar to what the crusaders have had.

And it will happen but I don't want scooter to be our captain.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

im afraid scooter has to be odds on for captain...but i agree with you

 

[40/20]

You guys don't think Savea is an option as skip? As I understand it, he will return from his offshore stint in time for the test season.

I'm not sure Cane's exclusion is a foregone conclusion either. I know he's seen as a Foz favourite, but if Sader-ball is built on effort, Cane is certainly not short of that. And I think Ryan recognises that.

SR will be a major factor as we know but if no one else really stands out as another option at 7, or even 8 to make moving Ardie a viable option, then IMO Cane could stay in the mix.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i just had this chat on another forum

"ardie will be 34 come the next world cup, so whilst im happy for him to keep performing in the black jersey as long as he can....it wouldn't be a surprise if he is losing a yard of pace especially considering how hard he plays...and i would hate to be in a situation where we were picking someone as captain and they were no longer first choice in their position

im a big fan of picking your best 15 and then selecting the captain form that...so im wont be upset if we dont get a captain named until the first squad gets named"

 

[Umaga's Witness]

i just had this chat on another forum

"ardie will be 34 come the next world cup, so whilst im happy for him to keep performing in the black jersey as long as he can....it wouldn't be a surprise if he is losing a yard of pace especially considering how hard he plays...and i would hate to be in a situation where we were picking someone as captain and they were no longer first choice in their position

im a big fan of picking your best 15 and then selecting the captain form that...so im wont be upset if we dont get a captain named until the first squad gets named"

players that play old tend not to be those who rely on power/pace, and while ardie is not just about power/pace it does make a difference for him, being a smaller player.

You guys don't think Savea is an option as skip? As I understand it, he will return from his offshore stint in time for the test season.

I'm not sure Cane's exclusion is a foregone conclusion either. I know he's seen as a Foz favourite, but if Sader-ball is built on effort, Cane is certainly not short of that. And I think Ryan recognises that.

SR will be a major factor as we know but if no one else really stands out as another option at 7, or even 8 to make moving Ardie a viable option, then IMO Cane could stay in the mix.

Razor will be wanting to build his own team and both ardie and cane will be old come next World Cup. And I think with a new coach who hasn't been part of the coaching staff previously, there will be less transition players.

Cane has already been injury prone too, so there's question marks over whether his body will continue to hold up.

But yeah I don't really know, will be interesting to see.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

players that play old tend not to be those who rely on power/pace, and while ardie is not just about power/pace it does make a difference for him, being a smaller player.

Razor will be wanting to build his own team and both ardie and cane will be old come next World Cup. And I think with a new coach who hasn't been part of the coaching staff previously, there will be less transition players.

Cane has already been injury prone too, so there's question marks over whether his body will continue to hold up.

But yeah I don't really know, will be interesting to see.

i really meant "a yard of pace" in the general more proverbial sense ...ie...not as good as he was

 

[40/20]

Yea I take both your points re: age by the next WC but I hope Robertson and his crew don't make their selections next year purely with the WC in mind.

@Umaga's Witness I think we both agreed in another thread that the almost singular importance placed on WCs sometimes at the expense of 'normal' test series wasn't ideal, so my hope is Robertson balances WC development with winning what's in front of him.

Next year that starts with England before a chance to get one back over the Boks in the RC and of course, keeping the Bled.

Form and injury dependent, I think Ardie especially can continue adding huge value both on and off the pitch for a few more seasons yet. And while it may not be a popular view, I genuinely think Cane can too.

Next year really will be fascinating and I already can't wait. Potential selections as we've been discussing, but for me, also seeing whether Robertson can replicate his domestic success at test level.

 

[40/20]

The All Blacks who could make it to the 2027 Rugby World Cup, and who might not

Paul Cully's opinion... reckons Ardie could go back around for another crack, but not Cane. Interestingly, thinks Codie Taylor could do a Colesy in 4 years too.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The All Blacks who could make it to the 2027 Rugby World Cup, and who might not

Paul Cully's opinion... reckons Ardie could go back around for another crack, but not Cane. Interestingly, thinks Codie Taylor could do a Colesy in 4 years too.

Yeah Did wonder about Taylor giving it a crack.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

What happened with BB in that AB's farewell thingie?
Looked bizarre.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

What happened with BB in that AB's farewell thingie?
Looked bizarre.

sorry, not sure what your talking about

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Fro all black's soc media.

First pic


second pic



I mean, i understand it's something you would check with the players/coaching staff before posting, but i could be wrong!

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Lol. Yeah beauden has never said what he is doing

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Hahaha I'd missed that….awkward!