RaboDirect Pro12 Round 5

[Peat]

You know it's not your night when Isa Nacewa's dropping high balls.

Will gloat about the other issue later.

 

[monkeypigeon]

You know it's not your night when Isa Nacewa's dropping high balls.

Will gloat about the other issue later.

This is like watching Poite ref a Munster match. Everything going Connacht's way. Not necessarily wrongly but Leinster have p-ed off the ref andnow he's givin' them nothing.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Rumours circulating that Lydiate has a fracture / dislocation of the ankle!

 

[Draggs]

Rumours circulating that Lydiate has a fracture / dislocation of the ankle!

I saw he was subbed off two minutes in.
That ankle has caused him some serious trouble.
OK, wrap Ryan Jones in cotton wool and keep him crated until November.

 

[Peat]

Rumours circulating that Lydiate has a fracture / dislocation of the ankle!

Happened tonight? Horrible news if true, really hope not.

Anyone else just see that cheeky go at the drop goal?

I hope the Ulster lads are watching this... if the Westies can stick a bonus point on Leinster, then, weakened team or no, there's no excuse for our inability to beat them!

 

[psychic duck]

Worrying times to be a Blues fan, there are some very, very ordinary players representing them atm. Going through their squad I'd say the following are simply not good enough:

Gavin Evans, Dafydd Hewitt, Ceri Sweeney, Marc Breeze, Scott Andrews, Taufa'ao Filise, Ryan Harford, Nathan Trevett, Chris Czekaj and Tom James. Hewitt, Czekaj and James would be ok as 3rd or 4th choice squad players, but should be nowhere near the starting 15. Gareth Davies did ok after coming on, but I'm not sure he'll ever be good enough, same for Rob Lewis at scrum half.

A bit harsh on Tom James and Chris Czekaj. To be fair to James, he has made a few breaks this season with his pace, just every time doesn't know what to do once he's made them and ends up throwing the ball on the floor or dropping it, and has never shown any sign of improvement in this area, in fact he's astonishingly consistent at doing it.

As for Czekaj, he's good enough to be okay as a reserve, but no more. In fact I would be tempted to give Richard Mustoe some opportunities ahead of him, and keep the winger who impresses most, and release the other.

To be fair, all three of those wingers would get in the Ospreys side at the minute ahead of Isaacs and Grabham.

The rest of them aren't good enough though, you're right. I would say they are all of Principality Premiership/RFU Championship standard, not Heineken Cup standard.

Re-signing Filise looks like not the best move in hindsight, he's become nearer the level of Andrews this season. I would also add Ma'afu to that list of player not good enough.

Maybe I'm being a little harsh on Hewitt in particular, but when there's quality youngsters in the squad like Cory Allen or Owen Williams who aren't getting a look in I get a little annoyed.

No, you're not harsh on Hewitt in particular. He's crap, prone to dropping the ball, and also often runs inside when it's on inside. He's just as bad as Gavin Evans.

Toulon are going to destroy this Blues team.

The scrum could be cringeworthy.

 

[SelimNiai]

Rhys Patchell out for 4-6 weeks so that explains why he wasnt included today

 

[psychic duck]

Well done to Zebre keeping Glasgow to just 22-19 defeat. The referee was terrible, and very biased against them so they did well to keep it close and deserved a draw.

 

[Tribesmen-ce-123]

Great day to be a Connacht supporter. There was something different about their performance today, they were far more clinical than usual in attack, worked excellently at the breakdown and didn't give away as many stupid penalties as usual. I see some potential in our backline these days. Dan Parks was class, and for two inexperienced lads, Marmion and Henshaw acquited themselves very well. Hopefully we can kick on from here and continue to bring some great performances like these in the future.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Ugh, that was a bit rough. Fair play to Connacht, they looked pretty good, but here's my 2 cents on why we just got humbled by the whesties:

1) Defensive frailty: Connacht's first three tries were so so soft. McSharry was essentially just allowed walk in from 5 meters. I know Reid was just on and there was probably a bit of confusion in the midfield, but that is unacceptable at any level. No one tracking their man. Fionn Carr's attempted tackle for the third one was pathetic. Ship the lad out of here, he's not anywhere near good enough for Leinster.

2) The midfield. Bad bad bad. Losing D'arcy early on was a massive blow, because Noel Reid is unspeakably shite. Always takes far too much out of the ball and does a very impressive imitation of a headless chicken. Macken was very poor tonight too. Our back line was inept all the way through and considering that we were holding our own up front, it was here that the game was lost.

3) A lack of hard runners. Losing Kearney was a blow. Auva'a has been poor this season and continues to be so. Without Healy, O'Brien, Healsip and co. we really struggled to get over the gain line tonight. Connacht, by comparison, broke through our line with relative ease.

 

[psychic duck]

Ugh, that was a bit rough. Fair play to Connacht, they looked pretty good, but here's my 2 cents on why we just got humbled by the whesties:

1) Defensive frailty: Connacht's first three tries were so so soft. McSharry was essentially just allowed walk in from 5 meters. I know Reid was just on and there was probably a bit of confusion in the midfield, but that is unacceptable at any level. No one tracking their man. Fionn Carr's attempted tackle for the third one was pathetic. Ship the lad out of here, he's not anywhere near good enough for Leinster.

2) The midfield. Bad bad bad. Losing D'arcy early on was a massive blow, because Noel Reid is unspeakably shite. Always takes far too much out of the ball and does a very impressive imitation of a headless chicken. Macken was very poor tonight too. Our back line was inept all the way through and considering that we were holding our own up front, it was here that the game was lost.

3) A lack of hard runners. Losing Kearney was a blow. Auva'a has been poor this season and continues to be so. Without Healy, O'Brien, Healsip and co. we really struggled to get over the gain line tonight. Connacht, by comparison, broke through our line with relative ease.

He scored 34 tries in 73 matches for Connacht (not normally known to be the most try scoring side).

Has he really been that bad that he's "not anywhere near good enough" and patience has run out with him?

 

[Peat]

At the start of the season I said Ulster's season would be determined by how well Mark Anscombe fitted in, how good Paddy Jackson is, and how many of our squad players stepped up to the plate.

Well. Ok, we had quite a boost from the occasion there, and I can understand why Cardiff fans are questioning the quality of what they have; but we rammed every advantage home - Warburton's inexplicable knock-on, a few jammy reffing calls - and knocked the stuffing out of them when they are on offer. Have to be happy with that.

And right now Anscombe looks like he's got real buy in, he's injected some real venom and brought some great offloading. Jackson is looking a class act, not the finished product but does a lot of good. And the squad players stepped up - Michael Allen's been a revelation while Neil McComb looks quite useful - and that result was accomplished with at least 5 of our strongest XV not starting. The Gilroy-Trimble argument could go a while too - Trimble's aggression feels too useful to leave out even if the attacking game is misfiring slightly, but then so too does Gilroy's running... so, tragedy aside, things are looking up.

 

[Feicarsinn]

At the start of the season I said Ulster's season would be determined by how well Mark Anscombe fitted in, how good Paddy Jackson is, and how many of our squad players stepped up to the plate.

Well. Ok, we had quite a boost from the occasion there, and I can understand why Cardiff fans are questioning the quality of what they have; but we rammed every advantage home - Warburton's inexplicable knock-on, a few jammy reffing calls - and knocked the stuffing out of them when they are on offer. Have to be happy with that.

And right now Anscombe looks like he's got real buy in, he's injected some real venom and brought some great offloading. Jackson is looking a class act, not the finished product but does a lot of good. And the squad players stepped up - Michael Allen's been a revelation while Neil McComb looks quite useful - and that result was accomplished with at least 5 of our strongest XV not starting. The Gilroy-Trimble argument could go a while too - Trimble's aggression feels too useful to leave out even if the attacking game is misfiring slightly, but then so too does Gilroy's running... so, tragedy aside, things are looking up.

Do you think that there's an argument to move Trimble back into the centre Peat? He was a passably good 13 back around 06 and with Cave doing well at 12 that could be a good way for Ulster to utilise all of their best backs at once.

He scored 34 tries in 73 matches for Connacht (not normally known to be the most try scoring side).

Has he really been that bad that he's "not anywhere near good enough" and patience has run out with him?

Yes, he's poo. He's fast, and that's about it. No kicking game, no passing game, abject defender. He looks like he's lost a lot of confidence since he came back too and doesn't appear to back himself any more. Send him to England or France, I don't want him. He wouldn't have made that Connacht team today by a long stretch.


A lot of lads showed that they're not up to it today. Denton has disappointed thus far. Auva'a doesn't seem bothered any more. Reid is cack. HVDM has been poor this season. Tom Sexton, Ben Marshall, John Cooney, Brendan Macken I'll reserve judgement on till later, but I'd be very surprised if more than two of them stay at Leinster. Madigan showed exactly why he's not half the 10 Sexton is today. McFadden was poor, but wasn't really brought into the game by the inept midfield. Isa had a bit of a shocker, but he owes us nothing so never mind.

 

[Draggs]

Well done to Zebre keeping Glasgow to just 22-19 defeat. The referee was terrible, and very biased against them so they did well to keep it close and deserved a draw.

Just puts the Ospreys match into perspective.

Very pleased with our win over Edinburgh, Blues lost to a side of similar strength at home.
Prydie and Jones just kept the scoreboard moving.

 

[psychic duck]

Just puts the Ospreys match into perspective.

Very pleased with our win over Edinburgh, Blues lost to a side of similar strength at home.
Prydie and Jones just kept the scoreboard moving.

Glasgow's fly half Ruaridh Jackson was slicing kicks all over the place (he really hasn't progressed on his early promise and in danger of turning into a Godman), he missed a few place kicks and wasn't getting territory in open play.

In the Ospreys match, Glasgow had Duncan Weir who is a much more solid (in more ways than one) fly half than Jackson, and he allowed them to keep extending their lead against the Ospreys. He makes a big difference to their side.

Josh Strauss had a sloppy debut for Glasgow today by the way, missed a few tackles and dropped the ball a couple of times.

Very surprised to hear the margin of victory by the Dragons (especially considering their poor form before this match), not so surprised to hear that Tim Visser was on the scoresheet again (he's now just 4 tries behind Tommy Bowe's tournament record of 48). Visser is a machine, I wonder whether he will be top try scorer for the league for a fourth time in a row.

 

[Peat]

Do you think that there's an argument to move Trimble back into the centre Peat? He was a passably good 13 back around 06 and with Cave doing well at 12 that could be a good way for Ulster to utilise all of their best backs at once.

Having given it a bit of thought after my gut reaction "No", I still think No for the following 4 reasons

1 - I don't think Trimble at 13's one of our best players. In fairness, I've seen very little of him there, but sticking him on the wing minimises his weaknesses such as a tendency to get lost in defence and the worst distribution of any Ulster back I can think of, while allowing us to make best use of his finishing in tight spaces, ability to generate quick ball on the crash, kill people in ball chases and so on. But Trimble at 13 looks like he'd be like Earls when he first started - lovely runner, but misses tackles due to being in the wrong place, and no friend to his wingers.

2 - I don't think Cave at 12's one of our best players - and in fairness, that's very much think. He only played ten minutes at 12 tonight as he moved out once Allen got injured, and this season is the first time he's played 12 to the best of my knowledge in three seasons. I think he could be an adept enough 12 - but he's not big enough to generate endless quick ball (although he could learn how to do it with footwork from Wallace), I don't think he's quite the distributor needed for a wide game (might be wrong) and he's not got the pace and feet to play 12 like Fofana does.

3 - There's a very strong argument that one of Wallace and Marshall fall under the best backs category. Wallace did a lot of good things today, he may have limitations at international level but he's one hell of an attacking threat for us and a good outlet. Marshall's not quite as canny as Wallace, but he makes up for it with some lovely aggressive defence and he's a very useful attacker too. Both are better distributors than Cave. So I'm not sure.

4 - It'd weaken competition for places. Right now, Anscombe is rotating regularly and giving everyone a chance to stake a place and it's really working. If we started messing around with the backline it'd feel like we were weakening the competition at 13 and on the wing. As it is, Wallace/Marshall and Gilroy/Trimble are both going to have to fight tooth and claw for their places, and that can only be to the good - I'm just hoping Allen continues the good work to put similar pressure on Cave, while D'Arcy or one of the youngsters starts putting it up Payne for his shirt and all.

That's how I see it anyway, others will have differing opinions.

As for Fionn Carr - in fairness, it's no bloody surprise he's lost confidence. He's gone from being the main man to just another reserve. Ok, he never was more than a runner, and in hindsight Leinster shouldn't have gone for him, but I imagine if he was fit and firing Connacht would take him back. But yes, if he can't learn and can't function as a bit part player, Leinster need to let him go.

And I'm going to express mild relief at the end of Leinster's ability to pull talented youngsters as if out of nowhere whenever needed. That said, there seems to be a malaise, there's a lot of players in your list who everyone knows can play - would be harsh to judge the youngsters on a day when everyone goes missing (not that I'm saying you are). Is there something going wrong with the systems?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Having given it a bit of thought after my gut reaction "No", I still think No for the following 4 reasons

1 - I don't think Trimble at 13's one of our best players. In fairness, I've seen very little of him there, but sticking him on the wing minimises his weaknesses such as a tendency to get lost in defence and the worst distribution of any Ulster back I can think of, while allowing us to make best use of his finishing in tight spaces, ability to generate quick ball on the crash, kill people in ball chases and so on. But Trimble at 13 looks like he'd be like Earls when he first started - lovely runner, but misses tackles due to being in the wrong place, and no friend to his wingers.

2 - I don't think Cave at 12's one of our best players - and in fairness, that's very much think. He only played ten minutes at 12 tonight as he moved out once Allen got injured, and this season is the first time he's played 12 to the best of my knowledge in three seasons. I think he could be an adept enough 12 - but he's not big enough to generate endless quick ball (although he could learn how to do it with footwork from Wallace), I don't think he's quite the distributor needed for a wide game (might be wrong) and he's not got the pace and feet to play 12 like Fofana does.

3 - There's a very strong argument that one of Wallace and Marshall fall under the best backs category. Wallace did a lot of good things today, he may have limitations at international level but he's one hell of an attacking threat for us and a good outlet. Marshall's not quite as canny as Wallace, but he makes up for it with some lovely aggressive defence and he's a very useful attacker too. Both are better distributors than Cave. So I'm not sure.

4 - It'd weaken competition for places. Right now, Anscombe is rotating regularly and giving everyone a chance to stake a place and it's really working. If we started messing around with the backline it'd feel like we were weakening the competition at 13 and on the wing. As it is, Wallace/Marshall and Gilroy/Trimble are both going to have to fight tooth and claw for their places, and that can only be to the good - I'm just hoping Allen continues the good work to put similar pressure on Cave, while D'Arcy or one of the youngsters starts putting it up Payne for his shirt and all.

That's how I see it anyway, others will have differing opinions.

As for Fionn Carr - in fairness, it's no bloody surprise he's lost confidence. He's gone from being the main man to just another reserve. Ok, he never was more than a runner, and in hindsight Leinster shouldn't have gone for him, but I imagine if he was fit and firing Connacht would take him back. But yes, if he can't learn and can't function as a bit part player, Leinster need to let him go.

And I'm going to express mild relief at the end of Leinster's ability to pull talented youngsters as if out of nowhere whenever needed. That said, there seems to be a malaise, there's a lot of players in your list who everyone knows can play - would be harsh to judge the youngsters on a day when everyone goes missing (not that I'm saying you are). Is there something going wrong with the systems?

Yeah, it was just a suggestion, I didn't think it'd really work.


As to our poor start, well there are a number of issues that contribute to it. Missing the likes of Boss and Strauss is huge. These are our go to guys for the games where we're forced to blood players. They lead by example, add valuable experience and are big physical presences that help to keep the opposition's defence honest.

A lot of our squad players who'd be expected to man up and really lead have been terribly disappointing. HVDM and Auva'a have been particularly culpable. Our locks have been disappointing and Cronin was pretty poor today. Hagan did little outside of the scrum, but I don't particularly mind that from a TH. He was bested by Nathan White though. Madigan can't control a game. If we're not on top he's a liability to be honest. His lack of a decent kicking game out of hand is a serious problem for us. Sexton is still the top man. Having D'arcy and Kearney go off didn't help, as we had to bring in the incredibly useless Noel Reid. I don't understand the amount of game time that guy gets, he's shocking.

Our hands are very tied by the Player welfare scheme. We've had to stagger the introduction of our best 15 players or so, which means we've been able to establish shag all continuity. Of course Ulster and Munster are subject to this too, but we've had more guys involved as of late, and injuries to some guys who wouldn't have been involved with the internationals (Ruddock, D Kearney, O'Malley, etc.) mean that we're pretty fecked at the moment.

We didn't do good business in the summer either. Bent and Goodman sound like pretty average squad players, but I'm more irritated that they're not here until the end of the ITM. This is exactly the period we need them for, not when we have everyone back. Shoddy. I don't believe that we couldn't have done better on the market either, we're the European champions and make a bloody fortune. Surely money couldn't have been an issue?

Anyway, none of that justifies what we saw today. Gutless, heartless, terrible.

 

[Draggs]

Visser will miss 1/3 of the season with the jocks.
North, unfortunately, won't play this weekend, but he has scored a few against Treviso.

We should have beaten the Blues, 3/5 wouldn't be awful.
If the Blues keep playing blobs like Filise and Andrews, we should target finishing ahead of them. With Lydiate out for probably months, who knows? Granted, Warburton is getting more injury prone and has suffered some seemingly nasty head injuries, we probably won't see much of him. Could we see something like: Shingler, Tipuric, Jones during the AI's? Add Pretorius for the Six Nations.

Every week I wonder why the Ospreys released Prydie. We can't have offered more, so it must have been short-sightedness by Tandy/Johnson-Holley (no clue when the deal was done). He is miles better than Fussell, Walker, Grabham, Isaacs.

 

[Peat]

Sounds to me like it's the injuries that are the real killer - us and Munster both have most of the people we'd like fit; Boss, Strauss, Ruddock, Kearney and O'Malley all out is a fairly heavy boot to your second XV. No Dominic Ryan either?

If Trevisio and Ospreys do us a favour, Ulster could go into round 6 top with a gimme game in hand. Not bad for facing three of last year's semi-finalists, including two away days in Wales...

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

If Trevisio and Ospreys do us a favour, Ulster could go into round 6 top with a gimme game in hand. Not bad for facing three of last year's semi-finalists, including two away days in Wales...

We should get either 4 or 5 points next week, even though they played well against Leinster I don't think they can win in ravenhill. Throw in another 5 points for whenever the Zebre game is played and I'm really fancying Ulster chances at the ***le this year - maybe a bit too eary to judge though.

Connacht Home, Dragons away, Edinburgh home next? We should get 3 wins with a potential bonus point, how are the Dragons doing, will we beat them away?