RaboDirect Pro 12 Round 1, 2

[Jockstap]

Yes they do have a problem with Leinster.

As they can afford to rest their players whilst losing in the league not mattering much and keep them fresher for the Heineken Cup matches.

Didn't Leinster still comfortably finish top of the league in the last two years regardless of resting players?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yes they do have a problem with Leinster.

As they can afford to rest their players whilst losing in the league not mattering much and keep them fresher for the Heineken Cup matches.

Fantastic way to miss the point. If they have a problem with Leinster then they're not the sharpest. Leinster's second team would comfortably finish within the top 6 if qualification rules were changed. It wouldn't make any odds.

So I guess their only real problem with Leinster can be that they've been better than them for the past four years.

 

[Thingimubob]

Nice to see you about, Thingimubob.
Agree with everything there. I liked Pretorius, cleared up so much crap at the back of the scrum. He is going the 'Faletau' route of training...

The biggest thing is this is nowhere near unusual for James. I've always said he is a wonderful runner, just no brain.

Cheers fella! I seem to not post for ages, then post a load in one go... though I have the Tapatalk thing now which means TRF is my usual way of staving off travel boredom

Yupp Tom James has always done it <_< though his finishing ability used to make up for it, though it gets ridiculous when he manages to not only screw up 2 tries but give them one in the process... Its no wonder why he never made it on the international stage, he doesnt have the ball skills and his running ability gets countered. Remember in his last cap vs NZ he went backwards every single time he got the ball, made no ground whatsoever

 

[Draggs]

James, Brew, Czekaj, Stoddart: we've got quite a few wings that are great in some aspects but just missing a crucial piece. Merge them all together and we'd be set! Pace of James, counterattacking of Stoddart, size of Czekaj, and mental strength of Brew. (I suppose we do have this; George North)
I hope we see Harry Robinson given a go, but he'll probably hardly see the ball when you look at the Blues pack/halfbacks/midfield.

Cuthbert is ever-improving. Say what you want about him being a 'big useless lump', he isn't afraid to try and go around a tackler instead of over. Did a nice job covering Visser as well.

 

[Feicarsinn]

No it doesn't miss the point.

They don't like that Leinster can rest players in the weeks before the Heineken Cup.

Of course Leinster would still be top 6 comfortably if the qualification was changed, but it doesn't stop them having a problem with it as they can't do it without worrying about not making top 6.

I read a quote about it once from one of chairman of the English clubs who said ...

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18409108)

Well then they essentially don't like Leinster because they're better than them. The French sides have no excuse for not having similar squad depth, the likes of Toulouse and Clermont should be able to rest players to a similar extent.

The English clubs are more constrained by the salary cap, so I can see where they are coming from. It's hard to build up a large squad when you have to devote most of your funds to having a strong first 23.

Leinster's ability to compete very well on the European stage in my mind does not come from a weakness of the Pro12. Despite there being a lot of rotation, the league is still of a comparable standard to that of the AP. This is shown by the fact that Connacht, who essentially play the same team every week in the league as they do in Europe, were able to compete well against both Gloucester and Harlequins last season. Leinster's dominance comes from the strength of their academy. When you can produce a player like Johnny Sexton and have Ian Madigan waiting in reserve then you're going to be pretty well set. I could give a lot of similar examples.






Anyway, just watched the Dragons game (cheeky proxy eh?). Happy enough with the result, a good bounce back from last week. It was disappointing how we essentially stopped playing after 50 minutes and could have let the Dragons back into the game had they been a little more clinical. Madigan was fantastic, I can see him looking very good in a green shirt. Cooney too continues to impress and looks like he has a good future ahead of him. The front row was on top throughout the game, which is very pleasing as we really need Hagan and McGrath to step up this year.

From a Dragon's perspective Tom Prydie was excellent. He's looking like he could be a fantastic bit of business. Their front five was decidedly average, which really curtails their decent wide game. All in all, a pretty poor performance.

 

[Tribesmen-ce-123]

That was more like it in the Leinster-Dragons game. The young Leinster backline were far more dangerous in attack this week, and a bit more solid defensively to. Madigan had a great game, only missing on kick, and some very good run's. I was really impressed with John Cooney to, he has a very good pass, brings good tempo to the game and has a bit of pace. The Leinster forward's also competed far better at the ruck, the only disappointment being Quinn Roux, who really couldn't get into the game at all. Hopefully its just because hes getting used to the Leinster set up still, but he looked far better in the footage ive seen of him in SA.

Of course, the Dragon's aren't nearly as dangerous as the Scarlets, so it has to be taken into context, but im fairly happy with the Leinster performance today, apart from the 10 or 15 minutes lack of concentration in the second, when they had the game all but won.

Tom Prydie looked very good I though for the Dragon's. Seems to be a solid kicker and ran some great run's, and put away a good try.

 

[Feicarsinn]

That was more like it in the Leinster-Dragons game. The young Leinster backline were far more dangerous in attack this week, and a bit more solid defensively to. Madigan had a great game, only missing on kick, and some very good run's. I was really impressed with John Cooney to, he has a very good pass, brings good tempo to the game and has a bit of pace. The Leinster forward's also competed far better at the ruck, the only disappointment being Quinn Roux, who really couldn't get into the game at all. Hopefully its just because hes getting used to the Leinster set up still, but he looked far better in the footage ive seen of him in SA.

Of course, the Dragon's aren't nearly as dangerous as the Scarlets, so it has to be taken into context, but im fairly happy with the Leinster performance today, apart from the 10 or 15 minutes lack of concentration in the second, when they had the game all but won.

Tom Prydie looked very good I though for the Dragon's. Seems to be a solid kicker and ran some great run's, and put away a good try.

What with the Luke McGrath hype machine, people seem to be forgetting that Cooney is an excellent prospect. For a guy who's still only about 21 he looks very assured. Solid passer, good decision maker, all round good player. We truly are blessed at the moment in terms of half backs at Leinster. Just as Reddan and Boss start to near the end of their careers, McGrath and Cooney pop up and both look like real prospects.

It's been so long since Leinster produced an international scrum half, hopefully one (if not both) of these guys can go all the way.


Also, that is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggeee result for Ulster.

 

[big ginger 8]

Good game to go to. That try by Conway was absolutely fantastic. Glad with how Jack went today. Now Madigan is kicking and kicking well. I don't know how Kidney can justify not picking him.

 

[Draggs]

Well, that was ****ing rubbish all around.
Next person to complain about people not going to matches needs to be forced to watch the last few from every side.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well, that was ****ing rubbish all around.
Next person to complain about people not going to matches needs to be forced to watch the last few from every side.

If I were a Dragons fan I'd be most disappointed by the way they were beaten so comprehensively at the breakdown. They absolutely leaked penalties and, considering how many guys we're currently missing in that area, you'd have imagined that they should have been looking to get on top there.

Was the crowd particularly big? Can't say that I was paying all that much attention.

 

[Draggs]

If I were a Dragons fan I'd be most disappointed by the way they were beaten so comprehensively at the breakdown. They absolutely leaked penalties and, considering how many guys we're currently missing in that area, you'd have imagined that they should have been looking to get on top there.

Was the crowd particularly big? Can't say that I was paying all that much attention.

You mean you aren't?
We were missing Lydiate, Waters, Evans all in the back row. Groves, our captain, is not really up for anything beyond LV Cup.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Oh yeah? Well we were missing O'Brien, Heaslip, Ryan, McLaughlin and Ruddock. Check and mate.

 

[big ginger 8]

Heaslip, O'Brien, Ruddock, Ryan and McLaughlin. I'd say that's worse.

 

[Draggs]

I would too, but Leinster are three times champions and have a much deeper player pool.

 

[dullonien]

The Blues and Ospreys (televised games) were bloody poor this weekend. If Edinburgh can demolish the Blues scrum with John Yapp at loosehead, you already know their season is already over after just two games. Whoever's in charge of finances there needs to pull out some stops to sign a decent prop, but it looks highly unlikely to happen. If it wasn't for Pretorius' excellent work off the back of their retreating scrum on a number of occasions, Cuthbert's all round excellence, and Halfpenny's kicking they wouldn't have been in that game. But you can't expect to win a game with only 3 players playing well. Anyone know where Tovey is? Other than the odd good tackle Sweeney is shite!

The Ospreys v Ulster game was worse though. Possibly the worst game of rugby in a very long time. No idea how Ulster won, because despite how bad the Ospreys were, Ulster were worse. Just managed to put together 2min of decent rugby and that was enough. How can the Ospreys go from playing some fantastic rugby at the end of last season, to looking like they barely know each other at the beginning of this? What have they been doing over the summer? Even the ever reliable Dirksen was losing the ball on a regular basis! Matthew Morgan seems to get worse every time I see him. He can up blind alleys and made mistakes all over the shop in this game, even the Ospreys try came from a mistake from him after getting clattered! Don't think Beck saw the ball more than 3 times. They need Adam Jones back asap, because Jarvis and Jo Rees were out of their depth unfortunately (especially disappointed to see Rees struggle, because I had high hopes for him).

I was always half expecting a backlash from Leinster. Only saw some quick highlights, so can't comment too much more. Not sure the Dragons thought they were going to win considering how many crucial players were rested.

Only positive of the weekend from a Welsh perspective was the Scarlets. Great win for them, hopefully they can keep it up.

 

[dullonien]

The Ospreys are far too over reliant on Adam Jones.

He's a great scrummager and main attacking weapon, but without him there is no Plan B.

I was disappointed how the Ospreys scrum has been pushed about by both Treviso and Ulster now, I thought Bevington and Hibbard in the front row could have been good enough scrummagers for at least parity in that area, but it now appears that they may both have been looking better scrummagers than they actually were next to Adam Jones. Either that or Jarvis is totally crap.

Yeh, I can't decide about that either. I think Jarvis is just struggling slightly. The scrums were mostly twisting with his side going backwards. It looked like Bevington's side was steady, but it's difficult to know properly. Agree with you about the Ospreys over-reliance on Adam Jones.

 

[welshglory]

The pack is struggling to clear out and secure ball as well. They need to grow some ******** and start playing with some intensity, it's ******* me off!

The backs look clueless most of the time, it's been this way for a good 3 years or so now. There is a real lack of flair and a game plan to be honest. Isaacs is not a Pro 12 standard wing never mind Heineken Cup and the persistance with Fussell at fullback is baffling.

I really struggle to see us troubling Leicester or Toulouse, possibly even Treviso

 

[Peat]

In fairness to the Ospreys' front row, I don't think there's too many out that'd cope too well with John Afoa and Tom Court coming on once you've already taken a pounding. That's a brutal situation.

Anyway, I'm happy as a horse in **** after that, even if I can't argue too much with Dull. Thing is, that was a very raw and second choice Ulster side (to start with at least). To go and get a win in Swansea - no matter how it's done - that's good. Ok, that win probably owed a lot of the bench, but still. The likes of Allen, Black, Herring and so on generally look like they can be counted.

The only real problem - which I think accounts for 90pc of our poor play - was the starting half-back pairing, who unfortunately remain dangerously close to the first team. Heaney's forgiven this time, he's young and inexperienced and played ok last week. I'm not going to mention the other one - although Jackson looked good coming on, slick distribution, good goal kicking.

 

[welshglory]

If we struggle against Court and Afoa, how will we fare against Ayerza/Stankovich and Cole/Castrogiovanni, Steenkamp/Poux and Johnston/Kakovin.

 

[dullonien]

If we struggle against Court and Afoa, how will we fare against Ayerza/Stankovich and Cole/Castrogiovanni, Steenkamp/Poux and Johnston/Kakovin.

With Adam Jones ripping them a new one, that's how!

Joking aside, I'm worried that they'll crumble if Adam Jones picks up an injury though. Then the Ospreys game falls to pieces, relying on scoring length of the field counter attack try's, which won't always come against the best / without Shane Williams.