Quade Cooper or Dan Carter? Who's the better 10?

[Marszxc]

I honestly feel that while each has his own strengths and weaknesses, Dan Carter at the moment is the more complete fly half. Quade has the slick passing and running skills of the modern playmaker, but still lacks in goal and tactical kicking and needs to be more mature to beat Dan. Also, lets keep in mind that Carter makes things look so easy that its hard to pick out any one thing that he does which is pure class.

IMO,
Dan Carter
Strengths:
Rock solid defence
Superb tactical kicking game
Flawless goal kicking
Efficient distributor (plays to the strengths of his teammates too)
Good running game (recall that he was the best running 10 in the world before Cooper?)

Weaknesses:
Can go quiet at times
Teammates may depend too much on his magic

Quade Cooper
Strengths:
Slick passer (long, short, medium range passes. You name it, he does it)
Superb running game
Makes brilliant decisions (not afraid to take risks too)

Weaknesses:
His defence (been working on it but still not good for an international 10)
Goal kicking is woefully inconsistent
Needs fast or strong support runners running off him (Reds had the likes of Digby Ioane, Rod Davies etc to run onto his passes, whereas Carter at times has had to create for fairly ordinary guys, Daniel Bowden, Ryan Crotty, Adam Whitelock etc.)
Sometimes TOO unpredictable. (teammates may be left wondering what he was thinking)

 

[Black Heart]

Carter is more of a class player.

The one thing that sets him above every other fly half in the world is that he has an ability to order his backline with military command; this on top of the other points already mentioned i.e. kicking, defence etc.

Cooper's fantastic at creating oportunities out of virtualy nothing and he gets good raps for his flashy manner but for all the flair, Carter still provides the same opportunities for his team without the lipstick and glitter.

Also, anyone who says that Carter is not as strong a runner must be snorting something good because Carter is deceptivly strong.

You can also add that Carter never has bad games. He doesn't play to his exceptional best at times but even at 70% he's still 1st class. Cooper on the other hand can be abysmal on occasion, especially when he starts getting steamrolled in defence.

 

[cyRil]

Quade Cooper is on fire, but he's still nowhere near the player Carter is. So case closed?
Will Greenwood needs his head checked.

 

[Blumbus23]

Well if the fate of the world rest upon a rugby match between Earth and Mars. Then I would want Carter as my fly half as opposed to Cooper.

 

[nickdnz]

It's interesting. Quade Cooper is in very good form at the moment and is very exciting to watch. The thing for me when people talk about how brillaint Quade Cooper is, they never mention his frailties (you did pretty well). He's a fairly average goal kicker (he'll never be the Wallabies top points scorer because he's never given kicking duties), his defense is terrible to the extent that the backline has to revolve around his bad defense and he'll sometimes do things which rely heavily on his team-mates not messing up (predicting his no-look passes, cross-field kicks). Regardless, he's got one of the best side steps in the modern game, and does the flashy stuff like no other. He's very much the new Carlos Spencer.

Dan Carter on the other hand has been a very solid, if not quiet lately. There is no doubt that when he is on form, he is every bit as much of an attacking genius as Quade Cooper is with some of the best play in the world (see Dan Carter v B&A Lions 2005, DC v Ireland 2010 etc...). But what is best about him, is that he just runs a team extremely well. He's scored more points than some of the greatest fly halves ever, in much less games. He averages the most points per game out of the top 20 test point scorers (14.9) and is a point away from rebreaking Wilkinson's all time test points scorers record, in 10 tests less. If there is any question of his attack, he has scored the most number of points in Super Rugby, as well as scoring more international tries than any other 1st 5/8th (29 tries).

To me, the phenominum surrounding Quade Cooper is very similar to the hype of Morne Steyn in 2009.

 

[Gavin]

Well if the fate of the world rest upon a rugby match between Earth and Mars. Then I would want Carter as my fly half as opposed to Cooper.

I'd prefer Will Smith...

 

[The big Kangaroo]

carter is a better traditional but quade has some magic up his sleeve

 

[SelimNiai]

Cooper reminds me of Carlos Spencer, he isn't afraid to try fancy passes and kicks, when they work we marvel at his genius but when they don't we ridicule him for his reckless adandon. On the whole Carter is the far better player because he knows when to be flamboyant and when to be safty first.

 

[Teh Mite]

Cooper is a poor mans Carlos. Carlos was a normal mans Carlos. Carter is a rich mans Carlos.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Carlos was a poor mans Felipe.

 

[Larksea]

kinda reminds me of only a couple of years ago when the big argument was Dan Carter vs. Matt Giteau

I think this argument will go the same way that one did.

Cooper is an exciting player. Though I think much of his strenth lies inside him. Genia is a fantastic halfback and he's the real threat in my mind. NZ really need to get Weepu fit and firing because Weepu is just as good if not better than Genia, Carter will get much more space and time with better ball if weepu is inside him compared to Cowan or Elis.

 

[JW.]

I agree with Weepu having better ball delivery than Cowan or Elis, but is his game management better than Cowan?

For me Carter is by quite a way the better 10. He is such a complete rugbyplayer. He's got great attack/kicking/defence/game-management/ballhandling he is the complete package. While Cooper isn't that yet. He could improve, he is obviously brilliant in attack but he needs to improve in the other aspects involved in being a great 10.

 

[markshaw]

Cooper has no Defence that takes ALOT away from his game

 

[Black Heart]

I agree with Weepu having better ball delivery than Cowan or Elis, but is his game management better than Cowan?

For me Carter is by quite a way the better 10. He is such a complete rugbyplayer. He's got great attack/kicking/defence/game-management/ballhandling he is the complete package. While Cooper isn't that yet. He could improve, he is obviously brilliant in attack but he needs to improve in the other aspects involved in being a great 10.

Based on their latest performances? 10-4.

In seriousness though, Weepu certainly has better vision than Cowan. This also comes from being an effect fly half as well which adds to his skill set. The only reason Weepu has struggled with Greame Henry and co. is largly a result of his off field antics.

But it's a good point raised about Genia. By-in-large he makes up 30% of Cooper's game. He gets credit for being one of, if not the best scrum half in the world but it often goes amiss how much Quade relies on him.

 

[Logorrhea]

Cooper isnt a touch on Carter. The guy cant kick and wont tackle. Hes barely half a player.

Hes the best 10 in Australia but thats about it.

 

[nickdnz]

Cooper isnt a touch on Carter. The guy cant kick and wont tackle. Hes barely half a player.

Hes the best 10 in Australia but thats about it.

I'd actually say he is a very good kicker. Not an especially consistant coal kicker, but he certainly can kick for terriroty very well.

 

[Marszxc]

Well I'd say Quade will continue to be spectacular for about a year or so, but when everyone else figures out his game he's just going to fade away. Class is permanent though, explains why Carter has been world's best since '05.

 

[Logorrhea]

I'd actually say he is a very good kicker. Not an especially consistant coal kicker, but he certainly can kick for terriroty very well.

Good point, I was incorrectly focusing on goal kicking.

I still find the comparison to Carter offensive.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When Quade has been consistently this good for a decade, then the comparisons can begin
He's got the talent, but has he got the longevity

 

[Shaggy]

I'm not sure that Cooper will ever be a great defender - the Wallabies seem to have addressed this issue quite well though, by putting Ioane in the 10 channel on defense, and have Cooper defend on the wing. The first choice Wallabies are operating really well as a cohesive unit, utilising each players strengths, and minimising the exposing of their deficiencies well.

This makes their current crop of very good players (Cooper, Genia, Ioane, JOC, Beale etc) even better