Problems at the Canes!!

[ABs2011]

Robbie Fruean, Jamison Gibson-Park, Brendan O'Connor, Kane Barrett, Charlie Ngatai, Andrew Horrell, Nick Crosswell, Ross Filipo, Ben Tameifuna, Hikawera Elliot, Mahonri Schwalger, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Adam Whitelock, George Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, Kurt Baker, Jason Emery, Shaun Treeby, Aaron Cruden, Willie Ripia, Lima Sopoaga, Aaron Smith, Frae Wilson, TJ Ioane, Chris King, Jed Robinson, Jason Woodward, Tamati Ellison, Scott Fuglistaller, Alby Mathewson and Richard Buckman are players who have either represented the Hurricanes in the past and moved on, or could have been Hurricanes by virtue of playing provincial, club or secondary school rugby in the franchise's catchment base.
There are 15 All Blacks in that list. You can't have everybody, but how did all four Whitelock brothers get a one way ticket from Feilding to Christchurch?
The list above doesn't include top class coaches who have deserted the Canes either. Dave Rennie, John Plumtree, Aussie McLean, Josef Schmidt, where are you? Taranaki, where are you?
Crowds have tumbled. The biggest crowd for a Hurricanes game at the Stadium since 2009 has been 23,539.
People, where are you?

Full article below:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation...ws-and-views/9836715/Hurricanes-where-are-you

To me this really epitomizes the problems at the Canes.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Players who started off their careers for Hurricanes provinces but are now playing for other NZ franchises:


Blues: Hayden Triggs, Kane Barrett, Jamison Gibson-Park, Ma'a Nonu
Chiefs: Ben Tameifuna, Hika Elliot, Rhys Marshall, Mahonri Schwalger, Michael Fitzgerald, Brodie Retallick, Nick Crosswell, Kane Thompson, Aaron Cruden, Robbie Fruean, Charlie Ngatai, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, Andrew Horrell
Crusaders: Zac Guildford, Israel Dagg
Highlanders: Ma'afu Fia, Jarrad Hoeata, Aaron Smith, Frae Wilson, Lima Sopoaga, Jason Emery, Shaun Treeby, Richard Buckman, Kurt Baker

You can't really include the Whitelocks given that they never played provincially in the Hurricanes catchment area.

 

[Jaguares]

So NZ have 16 provinces/regions:

Chiefs = Waikato (Hamilton)
Crusaders = Canterbury (Christchurch)
Blues = Auckland (Auckland)
Hurricanes = Wellington (Wellington)
Highlanders = Otago (Dunedin)

In theory, players from these provinces should play in Super Rugby teams representing these provinces, right? And what about the other regions? Bay of Plenty, Hawke's Bay, Northland, etc.? Which teams should play the players emerged from these regions?

I understand that this doesn't apply to 100%, that is, any player can play at any NZ Super Rugby team but in general terms it's assumed that a player emerged from Wellington, he must play in Lions and then in Hurricanes, right?

how did all four Whitelock brothers get a one way ticket from Feilding to Christchurch?

All Whitelock brothers are from Wellington and now all them play for Canterbury's Super Rugby team (Crusaders)??? How Wellington could afford that? The managers made ​​a mess. I can't believe!

 

[Shaggy]

Robbie Fruean, Jamison Gibson-Park, Brendan O'Connor, Kane Barrett, Charlie Ngatai, Andrew Horrell, Nick Crosswell, Ross Filipo, Ben Tameifuna, Hikawera Elliot, Mahonri Schwalger, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Adam Whitelock, George Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, Kurt Baker, Jason Emery, Shaun Treeby, Aaron Cruden, Willie Ripia, Lima Sopoaga, Aaron Smith, Frae Wilson, TJ Ioane, Chris King, Jed Robinson, Jason Woodward, Tamati Ellison, Scott Fuglistaller, Alby Mathewson and Richard Buckman are players who have either represented the Hurricanes in the past and moved on, or could have been Hurricanes by virtue of playing provincial, club or secondary school rugby in the franchise's catchment base.
There are 15 All Blacks in that list. You can't have everybody, but how did all four Whitelock brothers get a one way ticket from Feilding to Christchurch?
The list above doesn't include top class coaches who have deserted the Canes either. Dave Rennie, John Plumtree, Aussie McLean, Josef Schmidt, where are you? Taranaki, where are you?
Crowds have tumbled. The biggest crowd for a Hurricanes game at the Stadium since 2009 has been 23,539.
People, where are you?

Full article below:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation...ws-and-views/9836715/Hurricanes-where-are-you

To me this really epitomizes the problems at the Canes.

Well the rules for contracting players aren't the same as when Wellington poached Jonah Lomu from Counties in the golden days of Hurricanes Rugby ... players can contract themselves to any franchise they choose, so it's know use saying we lost this player or that player, because you can't contract them all.

If I look around the NZ super franchises, I see a number of shark fin salutes being made (indicating that they play for my Tasman Makos side), but they aren't playing for the Crusaders, are they (Tasman is in the Crusaders catchment area)

The Hurricanes just need to suck it up/adapt to how it is now, and do the best they can retaining key players, and recruiting other good players, and try to get the best out of the players they have in their squad

 

[ABs2011]

Well the rules for contracting players aren't the same as when Wellington poached Jonah Lomu from Counties in the golden days of Hurricanes Rugby ... players can contract themselves to any franchise they choose, so it's know use saying we lost this player or that player, because you can't contract them all.

If I look around the NZ super franchises, I see a number of shark fin salutes being made (indicating that they play for my Tasman Makos side), but they aren't playing for the Crusaders, are they (Tasman is in the Crusaders catchment area)

The Hurricanes just need to suck it up/adapt to how it is now, and do the best they can retaining key players, and recruiting other good players, and try to get the best out of the players they have in their squad

We obviously very clearly differ in our expectations of how a good franchise should be managed.

In terms of losing "this player or that player" I feel that is an incredible down play on what has actually happened at the Hurricanes. If you disagree then I challenge you to put together a list of something even as remotely close from another franchise (close in terms of numbers of players and in terms of quality!) I simply do not think you will even come close.

"The Hurricanes just need to suck it up/adapt to how it is now"? The Hurricanes do not need to suck it up, what they need to do is change the upper management of the club and LEARN how it is now. They have not managed their club and players well at all. That is reflected in the players we have lost, the terrible on filed results year after year, and the appalling crowds we get game after game. You are don playing the reality in Hurricanes land and I can only assume it is because you don't follow this team particularly closely. Otherwise I'm not sure I can reconcile your comments with reality.

 

[ABs2011]

So NZ have 16 provinces/regions:

Chiefs = Waikato (Hamilton)
Crusaders = Canterbury (Christchurch)
Blues = Auckland (Auckland)
Hurricanes = Wellington (Wellington)
Highlanders = Otago (Dunedin)

In theory, players from these provinces should play in Super Rugby teams representing these provinces, right? And what about the other regions? Bay of Plenty, Hawke's Bay, Northland, etc.? Which teams should play the players emerged from these regions?

I understand that this doesn't apply to 100%, that is, any player can play at any NZ Super Rugby team but in general terms it's assumed that a player emerged from Wellington, he must play in Lions and then in Hurricanes, right?



All Whitelock brothers are from Wellington and now all them play for Canterbury's Super Rugby team (Crusaders)??? How Wellington could afford that? The managers made ​​a mess. I can't believe!

As someone said, the Whitelocks (all four) left to Canterbury well before they were at SUper Rugby level so it is not a direct fault of the Canes. The WHitelocks are fromm a small town called Fielding which is in the Manawatu (2 hours north of Wellington). My understanding from talking to people that know them is that their dad was frustrated with Manawatu Rugby and ultimately the prospects/chances for his boys if they were to stay in the Hurricanes area. He decided the best thing for them all was to shift down to Crusaders territory. This is the point where, despite them not playing ever for the Canes, it is the reality that one of the reasons they left was based on the poor running of the Canes franchise. The Crusaders for example have a clear pathway for all their players. When they are looking to recruit players they basically break out a book which details this pathway from club rugby not only through to Canterbury NPC, but to Super Rugby and ultimately to ALl Black Rugby. I understand the information they provide to players details many many examples of how this path way has worked for some of the worlds best ever Rugby players; DC McCaw etc etc.

This is one of many examples of how the Hurricanes are an inferior franchise to others, they don't demon straight these pathways, particularly from the smaller unions in their catchment area. They don't manage their players well enough, they don't recruit well enough, they don't create the right atmosphere down her for the players and the wider player base. If you are down here and are in rugby circles you will know exactly what I am talking about. There is a huge amount of negativity down here amongst players coaches and fans alike. In terms of running a professional sports club it is an absolute disaster in my opinion.

I will always support my team, but it is increasingly hard when you see them making mistake after mistake from the playing field to the back rooms and very little on the horizon to suggest that they are learning from their mistakes and that any change is coming.

 

[Jaguares]

Well the rules for contracting players aren't the same as when Wellington poached Jonah Lomu from Counties in the golden days of Hurricanes Rugby ... players can contract themselves to any franchise they choose, so it's know use saying we lost this player or that player, because you can't contract them all.

If I look around the NZ super franchises, I see a number of shark fin salutes being made (indicating that they play for my Tasman Makos side), but they aren't playing for the Crusaders, are they (Tasman is in the Crusaders catchment area)

The Hurricanes just need to suck it up/adapt to how it is now, and do the best they can retaining key players, and recruiting other good players, and try to get the best out of the players they have in their squad

How were the rules to recruit players before? and how are the rules now for recruiting NZ players for Super Rugby teams?

 

[admartian]

So NZ have 16 provinces/regions:

Chiefs = Waikato (Hamilton)
Crusaders = Canterbury (Christchurch)
Blues = Auckland (Auckland)
Hurricanes = Wellington (Wellington)
Highlanders = Otago (Dunedin)

In theory, players from these provinces should play in Super Rugby teams representing these provinces, right? And what about the other regions? Bay of Plenty, Hawkes Bay, Northland, etc.? Which teams should play the players emerged from these regions?

Super Rugby teams use the closest provinces as part of their 'catchments'. Thus the Hawke's Bay are in the Hurricanes catchment, and the Bay of Plenty are in the Chiefs, etc etc. AFAIK Auckland only gets Northland, as Auckland is already the most populated.

 

[Shaggy]

How were the rules to recruit players before? and how are the rules now for recruiting NZ players for Super Rugby teams?

As Admartian says, the franchise areas are made up of provinces around where the team is based (catchments), ... it used to be that the appropriate super team would have the first choice on a player from one of it's provinces. For example, the Blues would have the first choice whether they wanted a player from Northland or not. After all of the five New Zealand Super teams had contracted their squads, another group that hadn't managed to get contracts (from all over New Zealand) would be included in a draft group, that any of the teams could draw upon when injuries occurred.

The change that has occurred is that players can negotiate a contract with any of the super teams, regardless of where the player is from, or if his franchise wants him or not. An example of this is Tom Marshall who is from Tasman (Crusaders catchment), who played for the Crusaders over the last couple of years, but negotiated a contract with the Chiefs, The Crusaders still wanted him, but he saw more opportunities with the Chiefs.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Super Rugby teams use the closest provinces as part of their 'catchments'. Thus the Hawke's Bay are in the Hurricanes catchment, and the Bay of Plenty are in the Chiefs, etc etc. AFAIK Auckland only gets Northland, as Auckland is already the most populated.

The Blues get Auckland, Northland and North Harbour.

 

[nzlizard]

The Blues get Auckland, Northland and North Harbour.

Unless it was the start of Super rugby and the Bluse got Counties because they were packed with stars and the the Chiefs got Northland because they had no stars.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Unless it was the start of Super rugby and the Bluse got Counties because they were packed with stars and the the Chiefs got Northland because they had no stars.

Erm, not quite.

The Chiefs got Harbour, because they had a bunch of All Blacks, and it was considered to extreme to have both Auckland and Harbour in one team (due to the number of All Blacks they would have). Counties did go to the Blues, but they weren't exactly All Black laden

 

[nzlizard]

Erm, not quite.

The Chiefs got Harbour, because they had a bunch of All Blacks, and it was considered to extreme to have both Auckland and Harbour in one team (due to the number of All Blacks they would have). Counties did go to the Blues, but they weren't exactly All Black laden

Fark my rugby brain is getting rusty lately :/

 

[ABs2011]

HIGHLANDERS V CANES: Exactly the crap that the Hurricanes have shown for years. Simply embarrassing! Changes are needed at the Canes, no doubt about it!

 

[nero]

It's enough to drive you mad, the way the canes are mismanaged. It's been going on for a while, too. I worked closely with some of the WRU ten or so years ago (not in a development capacity, but in catering lol) but they were comfortable enough with me to vent about some of the goings on. It looks like another season of absolute crap and there is just no need for it!

 

[nickdnz]

Ughhh.

 

[nero]

I assume that isn't a grunt of satisfaction?

 

[nickdnz]

I assume that isn't a grunt of satisfaction?

You are correct.

Being a Hurricanes supporter is like making love to a sock - and then realizing you only own one pair of socks. It's sad, shameful and no one knows whats it's like till they've walked a mile in our shoes.

 

[ABs2011]

You are correct.

Being a Hurricanes supporter is like making love to a sock - and then realizing you only own one pair of socks. It's sad, shameful and no one knows whats it's like till they've walked a mile in our shoes.

Are the tides turning? I watched all 5 Kiwi games this weekend and for me the Canes are the 2nd best form team in NZ. I hope they can maintain their form. Great to see Vito back!

 

[Muzzy]

When Jamie Joseph first moved from coaching wellington to the highlanders he took half the hurricanes with him

but players move around all the time now, you might be able to make a list like this for any team

a lot of these players also moved because their was a lot of competition in their positions

I can't believe they let Jason Woodward go though wth