Premiership Rugby 23/24 - Rd 4

[Geordie]

"You put things in priority," he added. "The priorities are maybe set-piece, then maybe defence, then clear-out skills. If they go all the way through to being a guy who can run a try in from 50 metres, fantastic, but that isn't going to be priority number one. That's going to be a long way down the list.

Think back to Chiefs when we won the champions cup and prem, this is definitely what we prioritised. Maul was a weapon, would keep the ball and trust our ruck clearing of the whole team.

It makes sense to prioritise set piece as they are launch pads. And then rucks clear outs help you keep the ball.

I do wonder what SB's priorities are going forward and what they were in the WC(and how they differ)

I dont see it being hugely different. Hes targeted fitness, scrum, lineout, breakdown and defence. Exactly as Baxter says.
He will be hammering that to continue to improve it.

The differences will be he'll want less but better quality kicking...and im sure he'll start to bring in an attack.

But as mentioned above...its up to the Premier league to produce the players...and provide a breeding / testing ground for those to go to the Euro comps and international ...

 

[Geordie]

Maybe this is in my head but there did seem a shift a few years ago (can't exactly remember) where 'mobility' was the key and we saw forwards in general in the prem seem smaller and the game ran at a faster pace.

We (saints) used to have one of the best packs around with a monster scrum and props that did prop stuff, scrum hard, tackle hard and make the offload in open play. For some reason we ended up with small weak props who can just about hold their own and look tiny in comparison to proper props but are 'mobile'.

For this weekend I'm really not looking forward t hosting bath, they are going to tear us apart in the second half.

Tongahuia and Mujati wasnt it? They were beasts...especially Mujati. With Hartley in the middle thats a tough front row...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Tongahuia and Mujati wasnt it? They were beasts...especially Mujati. With Hartley in the middle thats a tough front row...

Yep they were brilliant. Then we replaced them each time with great front rowers in Corbs, Kepu and someone else I'm missing but then near the end of Jim's reign we used Waller as our primary LH was was wrong and then Hill as our primary TH.


I do wonder if players like Corbiserio caused some of the issue. He was mobile (very mobile) but also a very good scrummager. It seems we tried to replicate the mobility but just sacrificed the scrummaging.

I also think our fascination with young players is also hampering our English props developing. For the English team, I see no reason to not be picking older props who have learned their trade and in that 28-33 age bracket even if they didn't set the world alight when they were younger. Even discussing stuff on here we focus on young props and almost ignore those that are older and maybe be just what we need, a steady experienced player.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wonder if part of it is also how many kids want to play in the front row? Like 16yr olds who have the making of top level athletes - are they thinking "I want to get up to 25st and scrummage" or do they think "I want to be 17st and play backrow"

Barbeary's a case in point. He was quoted as saying he wanted to move to the back row to get his hands on the ball more.

That's hooker though. Most proper props don't really have the physical attributes to play anywhere else. Marler looks like an out and out prop, Genge looks what he is, a converted back rower….his scrummaging can be decent, but isn't consistent enough and isn't his USP.

Marler's an interesting one. When he first broke through he was notable for his loose play but over the years became an increasingly good scrummager. A lot of this is mindset and what coaches ask players to do week in week out. I don't think it's especially a lack of potential talent.

I take some reassurance from the fact that Borthwick's a basics kind of guy.

 

[Saintjay]

Wonder if part of it is also how many kids want to play in the front row? Like 16yr olds who have the making of top level athletes - are they thinking "I want to get up to 25st and scrummage" or do they think "I want to be 17st and play backrow"

It's a culture / mind set thing i believe. The SA lads I've played with nearly all played prop or centre. They wanted to scrum all day or run overpeople. They almost fanaticaly loved a scrum.

The prems set up differently where as others have said the mindset is props geared to being more mobile, good hands etc.

I think the penny is dropping for Borthwick and the rest of the international teams that a nasty big pack with scrummaging props is still the gold standard and some how Borthwick is going to need the prem to buy into it. The article by Baxter hit the nail on the head.

As a Saints fan i think we'd be bloody brilliant if we had a decent front row and the lack of one is what holds us back.

 

[Reiser99]

I take some reassurance from the fact that Borthwick's a basic kind of guy.

So basic we don't even need an attack.

 

[will311293]

Jesus the Sarries team for Leicester game.

Mako, George, Riccioni, Itoje, Isiekwe, Christie, Earl, Billy
Davies, Farrell, Daly, Tompkins, Lozowski, Maitland, Goode

Subs: Dan, Mawi, Clarey, Hunter-Hill, Tizard, Willis, Van Zyl, Parton

No Gonzalez, Cinti, McFarland, West, Hartley, Lewington, G Simpson in that squad either.

 

[Scotty]

Chiefs to play Bears, couple of these played in a Friends vs Bristol on monday. Same for Tshiunza to be out for a while, guessing Fisilau is rested but good to see Ross Vincent get some gametime.
He's 1 for the future, tbh Vincent 20 Fisilau 21 and Tshiunza 23. We are looking well stocked in the back row For years provided we can hold on to them

Exeter Chiefs:
15 Tommy Wyatt
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Henry Slade
12 Tom Hendrickson
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Harvey Skinner
9 Tom Cairns
1 Scott Sio
2 Jack Yeandle (c)
3 Ehren Painter
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Lewis Pearson
6 Ethan Roots
7 Jacques Vermeulen
8 Ross Vintcent
Replacements:
16 Dan Frost
17 Nika Abuladze
18 Josh Iosefa-Scott
19 Dafydd Jenkins
20 Aidon Davis
21 Niall Armstrong
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Joe Hawkins

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Jesus the Sarries team for Leicester game.

Mako, George, Riccioni, Itoje, Isiekwe, Christie, Earl, Billy
Davies, Farrell, Daly, Tompkins, Lozowski, Maitland, Goode

Subs: Dan, Mawi, Clarey, Hunter-Hill, Tizard, Willis, Van Zyl, Parton

No Gonzalez, Cinti, McFarland, West, Hartley, Lewington, G Simpson in that squad either.

Going to see this. Bit annoyed that the one player I really wanted to see - T Willis - is only on the bench.

Just seen the Tigers team. Might be a long afternoon for them. Might have been interesting to keep an eye on Heyes, but he's only up against Mako .

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Good strong team to face Bath, was surprised to see Millar-Mills at 3, I've never seen him play and assumed he was a young lad by his photo but he's 31 and a big unit.

Maybe Phil D has been reading our thread and decided to put a decent TH out since Davidson is injured. Just a shame about Waller starting.


Edit: also how the hell are Sarries under the cap? Bloody cheaters. And why on earth does Billy start over Willis? How anyone sees anything good in Billy I'll never know.

 

[West Country Wail]

Good luck Sale

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Proper weather, this

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We've scored some points!

 

[IT157]

Healey can't have watched much of the Rugby World Cup. A lot of those passes were given even though there was a hint of it being forward. Seems it has be really blatant these days. And sometimes even then its fine!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Definitely worth a proper TMO check but don't think it's as blatant as the commentary make out - Warr stopped his run as/after he passed so I think it made it look worse

 

[Reiser99]

38 kicks already. Borthwick would be proud.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I'm loving the way the new presenter keeps referring to "Seal Sharks"... most appropriate.

 

[Reiser99]

Seen those given as yellow.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Don't like how you can jump into another player completely uncontrolled and are immune to consequences.

 

[Becca]

I'm loving the way the new presenter keeps referring to "Seal Sharks"... most appropriate.

I'm not loving anything about her at all…..