Please World Rugby, ban the Haka

[ENZED-88]

I strongly disagree with that only because we get the like's for Samoa, Fiji and Tonga. They do a war dance before a game but are they the best in the world ?, no they're not. So I don't understand why they say the haka gives the all blacks the upper hand in every game when clearly it doesn't.

Tend to agree with you Scotty. Before buck shelford came on the scene the Haka was just a bunch of white boys doing the Macarena in retard mode, BUT they were still the dominant team, it's a bit of a cop out to be honest talking about psychological advantage,the ABs own the last 20 of any match that's where they shift into high gear and show their class,by this point in the game the advantage of the haka(if there is one) is well and truly gone. Anyway the ABs biggest physiological advantage would be knowing they are better than any team put in front of them and all they have to do is stick to their systems to win the game.

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did you uhm...did you just dis..disagree with m..with me there, Scotty ??..... *left eye twitching


.....dude we got fined 5000$ for advancing towards the haka in the final.

France was fined for advancing beyond halfway (totally ****ing stupid, I know brother) teams should be able to respond however they want, but don't get it twisted, the All Blacks dominate because they are the best not because of a one minute dance done before the game.

 

[j'nuh]

Do people want to get rid of the haka because they don't like the haka, or do people want to get rid of the haka because it cannot be challenged?

I'd say we should be asking World Rugby to allow challenges, rather than campaign to ban the haka.

I'd also encourage people to read up on what the haka actually is and what the actions actually represent. For a start, not all hakas are war dances. Neither Ka Mate nor Kapa o Pango are.

 

[ratsapprentice]

What do people get out of the "challenges"...??

What exactly are they challenging... "if you keep dancing we're gonna keep on slowly advancing towards you... potentially in a chevron?!"

 

[j'nuh]

What do people get out of the "challenges"...??

What exactly are they challenging... "if you keep dancing we're gonna keep on slowly advancing towards you... potentially in a chevron?!"

I don't think it's the challenge that people care for so much tbh. I think it's the feeling that the All Blacks are receiving special treatment from World Rugby.

 

[ratsapprentice]

They are... the Haka is being exploited brutally by them as a marketing tool.

Which is fair enough.... it's a great gimmick.

 

[goodNumber10]

Do people want to get rid of the haka because they don't like the haka, or do people want to get rid of the haka because it cannot be challenged?

I'd say we should be asking World Rugby to allow challenges, rather than campaign to ban the haka.

I'd also encourage people to read up on what the haka actually is and what the actions actually represent. For a start, not all hakas are war dances. Neither Ka Mate nor Kapa o Pango are.

Indeed, ka mate is a celebration.

However, you can see it is clearly laid down as a challenge.

 

[ENZED-88]

I don't think it's the challenge that people care for so much tbh. I think it's the feeling that the All Blacks are receiving special treatment from World Rugby.

Would people care so much if the ABs weren't so dominant? Or do they need to play like samoa, Tonga, or fiji for people not to care about it?

 

[Thingimubob]

*sigh* been a while since this one has been brought up on here...

Nothing wrong with the Haka, the opposition is gonna get the exact same psychological boost it gives the All Blacks. Can't help but feel that I'd be pumped up for a match having just faced the haka!

Pretty proud to say I was there for the Welsh stare down. Electric atmosphere doesn't even cover it, blew my mind how fired up that got everyone. Don't think we got fined at all for that?

 

[Big Ewis]

France was fined for advancing beyond halfway (totally ****ing stupid, I know brother) teams should be able to respond however they want, but don't get it twisted, the All Blacks dominate because they are the best not because of a one minute dance done before the game.

can you prove that ??...the All-Blacks have won a majority of their games for the past many decades and are the best team in the Rugby Union world, that, nobody contests. But have they played without performing a haka (at least in recent decades) ?? Can we, mere television watchers and internet forum enthusiasts, prove there isn't something more than we think going on during that haka ??...every team in the world trains hard, heck, it's the professional era and every team has access to information and knowledge anytime anywhere they want, a great mixity has occurred in the world Rugby chessboard where SH and NH coaches and players meet, team up and the once great abyss between realms is now withered, and history. But through all this conforming and coming together of the worlds, there is one team that has kept its distance somehow...the one team that performs the said haka...can we know for certain this is merely a war dance, simply a folkloric demonstration, a Rugby pre-match show ? And conveniently enough, as soon as we get too close, all of a sudden things get thoroughly heated and even hefty financial sanctions drop. It's time we ask the question behind the question: what really goes on during this haka that procures its practitioners such formidable ability ? What great ancient deity or dimension is truly being called upon as those moves are executed and antique words spoken ? What orphic truth lies behind this incantation, this troubling mystery of an act ?

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

can you prove that ??...the All-Blacks have won a majority of their games for the past many decades and are the best team in the Rugby Union world, that, nobody contests. But have they played without performing a haka (at least in recent decades) ?? Can we, mere television watchers and internet forum enthusiasts, prove there isn't something more than we think going on during that haka ??...every team in the world trains hard, heck, it's the professional era and every team has access to information and knowledge anytime anywhere they want, a great mixity has occurred in the world Rugby chessboard where SH and NH coaches and players meet, team up and the once great abyss between realms is now withered, and history. But through all this conforming and coming together of the worlds, there is one team that has kept its distance somehow...the one team that performs the said haka...can we know for certain this is merely a war dance, simply a folkloric demonstration, a Rugby pre-match show ? And conveniently enough, as soon as we get too close, all of a sudden things get thoroughly heated and even hefty financial sanctions drop. It's time we ask the question behind the question: what really goes on during this haka that procures its practitioners such formidable ability ? What great ancient deity or dimension is truly being called upon as those moves are executed and antique words spoken ? What orphic truth lies behind this incantation, this troubling mystery of an act ?

I can prove that mate, Samoa, Fiji and Tonga have a 1 minute dance before they're games do they dominate game's. No they don't so yeah the all blacks just clearly have the players to be the best team in the world.

 

[Mikel92]

.....dude we got fined 5000$ for advancing towards the haka in the final.

To be fair, didn't the IRB also fine the Samoan team $10,000 for not wearing mouth guards? My point being that it's not so much about protecting the haka as it is the IRB just being a bunch of strict old white men in suits.

The author might be expecting a major bite, but I agree in part. I don't think we should ban it as such. But I do (and a lot of Kiwis also think this if you read our news sites) think that it is grossly over done. In every sport, for every achievement, for every welcoming. It's just too much. While I wouldn't say ban it, I would say cut back on it. And if another nation is at home, they should be allowed to advance beyond whatever point they want to. Or do what the Welsh did and stand there stone faced, haha. Australia use to play Waltzing Matilda so they could get the last say before a test match. I don't think they do it any more?

This debate got raised in an opinion piece a few months ago here in NZ. Always makes me laugh that people single out the All Blacks to make their point. Those Arrogant New Zealanders! (oh nevermind Tonga, Samoa and Fiji, they aren't as good, so let them keep theirs). Their silence is deafening.

Would it change your mind if you knew more about the haka? It isn't just a "hey man, I'm coming for you so watch out" .. it's a thing of honour. Maori give their own people the haka all the time to recognize their achievement, social standing, to respect them. If you get sick of your team just standing there like wee pixies, then we can work on changing that. And I'm sure a lot of Kiwis will agree with you. But that's totally different to banning it. Rugby Union embraces culture, let's keep in that way. But I'm sure alterations can be made for stupid rules such as "no advancing beyond point X".

 

[inteNZity]

"In2006 the All Blacks performed their haka in their dressing room before beating Wales 45-10 at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff. The WRU had asked them to perform it between the anthems rather than after them - it wanted the Welsh national anthem to be their official response - but that was considered unacceptable. "The tradition needs to be honoured properly if we're going to do it," fumed All Blacks skipper Richie McCaw. "If the other team wants to mess around, we'll just do the haka in the shed (changing room). At the end of the day, haka is about spiritual preparation and we do it for ourselves. Traditionally fans can share the experience too and it's sad that they couldn't see it today. The players didn't take the decision lightly." .
so no worry cuz the boys will do it in the sheds, but I bet your unions don't like it because it draws the crowds, the All Blacks always play to a full house on tour, always bring a quality team, always go hard out and deliver a quality game, and still there's always some dude who complains. Maybe your challenge could be to get a bunch of Dutch farmers to come out and invade our side of the field and make all our guys divide up according to race... we have the Haka because we are together and together we have been strong.

 

[ENZED-88]

can you prove that ??...the All-Blacks have won a majority of their games for the past many decades and are the best team in the Rugby Union world, that, nobody contests. But have they played without performing a haka (at least in recent decades) ?? Can we, mere television watchers and internet forum enthusiasts, prove there isn't something more than we think going on during that haka ??...every team in the world trains hard, heck, it's the professional era and every team has access to information and knowledge anytime anywhere they want, a great mixity has occurred in the world Rugby chessboard where SH and NH coaches and players meet, team up and the once great abyss between realms is now withered, and history. But through all this conforming and coming together of the worlds, there is one team that has kept its distance somehow...the one team that performs the said haka...can we know for certain this is merely a war dance, simply a folkloric demonstration, a Rugby pre-match show ? And conveniently enough, as soon as we get too close, all of a sudden things get thoroughly heated and even hefty financial sanctions drop. It's time we ask the question behind the question: what really goes on during this haka that procures its practitioners such formidable ability ? What great ancient deity or dimension is truly being called upon as those moves are executed and antique words spoken ? What orphic truth lies behind this incantation, this troubling mystery of an act ?

NZ vs wales no haka was preformed still won 45-10 that was 6 or 7 years ago. NZ sevens team has won more World Series than any other nation yet they don't preform the haka before games.

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" Maybe your challenge could be to get a bunch of Dutch farmers to come out and invade our side of the field and make all our guys divide up according to race... we have the Haka because we are together and together we have been strong.

**** bro went a bit deep on the SA brothers there.

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To be fair, didn't the IRB also fine the Samoan team $10,000 for not wearing mouth guards? My point being that it's not so much about protecting the haka as it is the IRB just being a bunch of strict old white men in suits.

The author might be expecting a major bite, but I agree in part. I don't think we should ban it as such. But I do (and a lot of Kiwis also think this if you read our news sites) think that it is grossly over done. In every sport, for every achievement, for every welcoming. It's just too much. While I wouldn't say ban it, I would say cut back on it. And if another nation is at home, they should be allowed to advance beyond whatever point they want to. Or do what the Welsh did and stand there stone faced, haha. Australia use to play Waltzing Matilda so they could get the last say before a test match. I don't think they do it any more?

This debate got raised in an opinion piece a few months ago here in NZ. Always makes me laugh that people single out the All Blacks to make their point. Those Arrogant New Zealanders! (oh nevermind Tonga, Samoa and Fiji, they aren't as good, so let them keep theirs). Their silence is deafening.

Would it change your mind if you knew more about the haka? It isn't just a "hey man, I'm coming for you so watch out" .. it's a thing of honour. Maori give their own people the haka all the time to recognize their achievement, social standing, to respect them. If you get sick of your team just standing there like wee pixies, then we can work on changing that. And I'm sure a lot of Kiwis will agree with you. But that's totally different to banning it.

It is well an truly over used and exploited. More sense if the haka was preformed for home games only, but it is part of the theatre and has been for well over 100 years.

 

[Tony Manx]

over used and exploited. More sense if the haka was preformed for home games only, but it is part of the theatre and has been for well over 100 years.

Certainly the inane loud music at every available opportunity is a recent addition to test rugby so traditions change!

I think it is wrong for the Abs to be allowed to dominate the pre match sequence but if it has to go on, for whatever reason (cultural, traditional or just political correctness) then why should it not be challenged or the opposition not be allowed to do a Campese and kick a ball around waiting for them to get it over!

To force opposition teams to stand still and face it in silence is wrong, unnecessary and, in PC terms, degrading to have no right of reply!!

It is certainly wrong for advocates to bleat loudly when the crowd voices their disapproval by booing, singing Sweet Chariot, Bread of Heaven or old macdonald has a farm!!!!!

 

[Mikel92]

I'm all for fixing our laws to ensure that challenges are allowed (I'm sure a lot of people would love to see it).

But for those advocating a ban, are we also going to do the same for Fiji, Tonga and Samoa? And if not, why not? And if yes, well - IMO that'd be a great shame. What next? Don't clap your hands cause someone will get offended.

 

[ENZED-88]

Certainly the inane loud music at every available opportunity is a recent addition to test rugby so traditions change!

I think it is wrong for the Abs to be allowed to dominate the pre match sequence but if it has to go on, for whatever reason (cultural, traditional or just political correctness) then why should it not be challenged or the opposition not be allowed to do a Campese and kick a ball around waiting for them to get it over!

To force opposition teams to stand still and face it in silence is wrong, unnecessary and, in PC terms, degrading to have no right of reply!!

It is certainly wrong for advocates to bleat loudly when the crowd voices their disapproval by booing, singing Sweet Chariot, Bread of Heaven or old macdonald has a farm!!!!!

I agree with you here on most parts, how would it be challenged? Teams would come up with some entertaining ways to challenge it, the best way to accept the challenge would be to play better than them and win if that's not enough something along the lines of what the welsh did a few years back or France in the rwc would get the crowd and players pumped up.

 

[nickdnz]

Well, who isn't already over this discussion?

No one is against the opposing team challenging the haka (other than the IRB - money was even raised for France's challenge by a bunch of NZ's to pay the fine). I would much rather the opposing team was allowed to challenge it than the boorish Twikenham crowd of 80,000 just singing over the 23 rugby players..

My personal view is I have seen the haka enough times for me to never need to see it again. If foreign nations don't seem to want to respect the haka, then we may as well just not do it there. As far as I can tell, a majority of people enjoy the theater of the haka - so it's probably there to stay.

Having said that.
The cricket team don't do the haka. Why should rugby still have it ?

Having said that - the South African cricket team is called the Proteas after apartheid, why should the rugby team be called Springboks? Dumb as hell argument.

 

[William18]

When the French were fined for advancing on the haka, New Zealanders raised money to pay for it. http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/camp...french-pay-haka-fine-2011102515#axzz3M7Ryooxr. Opinion polls at the time were dead against France being fined. That's just an IRB rule.

I think the idea that the haka gives us a psychological boost is questionable given how poorly we start games. Are people saying that we get a psychological boost but that boost only kicks in after 60 minutes? Aaron Smith said that it is hard to do the haka and then settle in to a game of rugby.

Teams are currently allowed to challenge the haka, they just have to do it in heavily proscribed ways.. Theoretically there is nothing stopping England creating their own response. I think our decision to do the haka in the dressing rooms was churlish at best.

I personally don't think we should do the haka if other countries don't want us to.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I would much rather the opposing team was allowed to challenge it than the boorish Twikenham crowd of 80,000 just singing over the 23 rugby players.

Boorish?
:lol:
How precious.

The opposition players aren't allowed within a country mile of the Haka, lest the IRB **** itself, so it's up to the fans to take up the challenge.

 

[Draggs]

Boorish?
:lol:
How precious.

The opposition players aren't allowed within a country mile of the Haka, lest the IRB **** itself, so it's up to the fans to take up the challenge.

People singing at a rugby match???

What are you doing letting soccer fans into Twickenham?