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Ospreys

The_East_Stand_View

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Ospreys
What fringe players of last year do we need to play this season?

M Morgan At ten
Tup will play most games at seven
 
I don't think Matthew Morgan is ready for this level yet.
I wouldn't say Biggar is either, but Morgan needs another season at Premiership level at least.

-Hope Ian Evans gets back to form, we need another second row, with Ryan and Luke not up to the task.
-Fullback will be interesting; the consistently injured Barry Davies will probably be first choice, but I don't really rate him. Tom Prydie could be an option when he returns from injury, while Richard Fussell was improving at 15 at the end of the season.
-I have not seen too much of Kahn Fotuali'i, but from what I have heard, he is a pretty good player. He will probably start over Rhys Webb.

I'd expect to see something like this during the World Cup:
R Fussell, E Walker, A Bishop, A Beck, K Phillips, D Biggar, R Webb; R Bevington, H Bennett, A Jarvis/C Griffiths, I Evans, I Gough, J Thomas, J Tipuric, J Bearman; S Baldwin, C Griffiths, J Goode, M Allen, T Isaacs, D Flanagan/M Morgan, G Owen

After World Cup with no injuries:
R Fussell, T Bowe, A Bishop, A Beck, S Williams, D Biggar, K Fotuali'i; P James, R Hibbard, AR Jones, AW Jones, I Evans, G Stowers, J Tipuric, R Jones; H Bennett, R Bevington, I Gough, J Thomas, R Webb, D Flanagan/M Morgan, G Owen
 
I don't think Matthew Morgan is ready for this level yet.
I wouldn't say Biggar is either, but Morgan needs another season at Premiership level at least.

-Hope Ian Evans gets back to form, we need another second row, with Ryan and Luke not up to the task.
-Fullback will be interesting; the consistently injured Barry Davies will probably be first choice, but I don't really rate him. Tom Prydie could be an option when he returns from injury, while Richard Fussell was improving at 15 at the end of the season.
-I have not seen too much of Kahn Fotuali'i, but from what I have heard, he is a pretty good player. He will probably start over Rhys Webb.

I'd expect to see something like this during the World Cup:
R Fussell, E Walker, A Bishop, A Beck, K Phillips, D Biggar, R Webb; R Bevington, H Bennett, A Jarvis/C Griffiths, I Evans, I Gough, J Thomas, J Tipuric, J Bearman; S Baldwin, C Griffiths, J Goode, M Allen, T Isaacs, D Flanagan/M Morgan, G Owen

After World Cup with no injuries:
R Fussell, T Bowe, A Bishop, A Beck, S Williams, D Biggar, K Fotuali'i; P James, R Hibbard, AR Jones, AW Jones, I Evans, G Stowers, J Tipuric, R Jones; H Bennett, R Bevington, I Gough, J Thomas, R Webb, D Flanagan/M Morgan, G Owen

Don't think Ryan Jones has been bad at second row to be honest.
 
Don't think Ryan Jones has been bad at second row to be honest.

Not bad for the Ospreys, but not up to it at international level.
I feel he may be shifted to SR again this season, to accommodate Bearman, unless Ianto finds his form.
 
Jones was better at 2nd row then number 8 last year. What the Ospreys need is to play like a team and don't break Bowe.That's all they need to do, for me anyway.
 
Jones was better at 2nd row then number 8 last year. What the Ospreys need is to play like a team and don't break Bowe.That's all they need to do, for me anyway.

Ryan was in poor form for the first half of the season, but seemed to show signs of improvement during and after the Six Nations.
He was still a better 8 than Jonathan Thomas!
 
Not bad for the Ospreys, but not up to it at international level.
I feel he may be shifted to SR again this season, to accommodate Bearman, unless Ianto finds his form.

Against the Barbarians is hardly a game to count and he was not bad in that game either.
 
Against the Barbarians is hardly a game to count and he was not bad in that game either.

Regardless, we still need a proper second row, Alun Wyn Jones and Bradley Davies are our only real international second rows.
 
Regardless, we still need a proper second row, Alun Wyn Jones and Bradley Davies are our only real international second rows.

Ryan is good enough to cover there and play there for Wales. He looked good there for the Ospreys and is like having an extra backrow on the field also.
 
Will be very interesting to see the difference between world cup, and post world cup match 22's. I can see a few changes, but i hope the younger guys will get their chance, and if they look good, get their chance to play in the big games post world cup. I want to see Mathew Morgan get game time, but i do agree he's possibly still a little raw to step up week in week out. Gotta say though, i don't think his size should be the biggest issue whether he should play. Shane's managed over the years, i'm sure he'll be giving him tips in the gym :p
 
part of the problem at the ospreys was that expectations placed on them were far higher than they should've been. players who were not really "stars" were referred to constantly in the press as being stars, and as such if the ospreys didnt beat all comers they were considered failures.

the ospreys have made some good signings. i think they are now more aware of how the team is perceived, and how certain names raised expectations. getting the PR & media spin right is quite an important part in getting people behind the team. the ospreys haven't got that right in the past, and as such they have got the most strife from the press & public despite winning more trophies and probably producing more players for the national team, too. meanwhile cardiff get very little trouble from the press despite poor performances, few trophies & a lot of non-welsh players. the dragons have no expectations placed on them, and the scarlets have "played a blinder" in the PR stakes--- people seem to think they have no non-welsh players, and are constantly talked about as developing welsh players.

stowers & bearman will be as good for the ospreys as collins & Holah, and fotuai'li/webb will make up for mike phillips leaving. i think the ospreys now have a squad that is just as good as before, but with less expectation on them. i can see them signing a quality centre though, because their centre options have not been good enough over the past few years. they won't win heineken cups with the likes of parker, bishop and a rookie like beck!

that said, beck, morgan, tipuric, bevington, and maybe a few others, have all come on well and will get more games this year, i think. so the ospreys have signed well so far, and have some good youngsters coming in. they won't miss the "stars" who have left, in my opinion.
 
So not having the majority of Welsh International players in the squad does not count to having a high expectation? The squad the Ospreys had simply should have done better.
 
They should have done better, but in the end we've choked at every oppertunity.....
lets breed the youngsters next year :D Lets actually contribute something concrete to the development of welsh rugby :D
 
So not having the majority of Welsh International players in the squad does not count to having a high expectation? The squad the Ospreys had simply should have done better.

the question is not whether they are internationals, but whether they are actually any good.

with all due respect, you can't compare:

dan biggar to stephen jones
hibbard & bennett to matthew rees
bishop & parker to regan king & jonathan davies

ryan jones and jonathan thomas have been outclassed in the backrow, leading to them moving to the second row. they kept the
their places in the welsh team because of a lack of depth, but already the likes of turbull, mccusker, faletau and lydiate have caught up with them. ben morgan will walk past them as well if he chooses wales.

lee byrne--- been average for 2 years, whoever he has played for. again, nobody has quite come through to displace him.

the ospreys had the best front 5 & wingers, but that is pretty much where it ends. possibly the only other advantage is a bit more depth in one or two positions-- ie craig mitchell is a better backup than, say, simon gardner at the scarlets.

- the backrow was equal at best to the other regions.
- the ospreys 9 & 10 were equal at best with the dragons & blues, and behind the scarlets in my opinion.
- james hook was obviously out of position, and that is the ospreys fault, but still the osprey centres are absolute garbage when compared with king/davies, laulala/roberts/shanklin & even the dragons pairing.

so, to be honest, its not really about the number of internationals you have, it's about how good they actually are. simply being a welsh international is not enough to suggest real quality, unfortunately. id say the ospreys did reasonably well, given the toughness of their HC group. their squad is certainly no patch on munster & toulon. the ospreys had no right to expect to go through.
 
the ospreys have made some good signings. i think they are now more aware of how the team is perceived, and how certain names raised expectations. getting the PR & media spin right is quite an important part in getting people behind the team. the ospreys haven't got that right in the past, and as such they have got the most strife from the press & public despite winning more trophies and probably producing more players for the national team, too. meanwhile cardiff get very little trouble from the press despite poor performances, few trophies & a lot of non-welsh players. the dragons have no expectations placed on them, and the scarlets have "played a blinder" in the PR stakes--- people seem to think they have no non-welsh players, and are constantly talked about as developing welsh players.

stowers & bearman will be as good for the ospreys as collins & Holah, and fotuai'li/webb will make up for mike phillips leaving. i think the ospreys now have a squad that is just as good as before, but with less expectation on them. i can see them signing a quality centre though, because their centre options have not been good enough over the past few years. they won't win heineken cups with the likes of parker, bishop and a rookie like beck!

that said, beck, morgan, tipuric, bevington, and maybe a few others, have all come on well and will get more games this year, i think. so the ospreys have signed well so far, and have some good youngsters coming in. they won't miss the "stars" who have left, in my opinion.

I think blame can't really be given to the front five plus Holah and Collins as the Ospreys often have loads of possession and have no idea of what to do with it

in that Munster match at the Liberty Stadium we had possession for nearly all of the second half and yet Munster still came away with a losing bonus point despite being demolished possession and scrum wise.

As for arrivals and departures, it's worth noting that these so called "stars" Byrne and Phillips in particular have been pants for us for the last 2 seasons, the only leaving player I would of really wanted to keep would be Hook

I don't think Bearman and Stowers are an improvement on Holah and Collins, I really think the Ospreys have to sign an openside to replace Holah

the other position which we should focus on is centre which we should of really signed somebody for years, Nonu is the rumour but I would actually prefer that we signed a creative centre albeit which are harder to find than a crash ball centre

regards to Hook at centre, I like him as a centre, he is good at attack and has a great fend and good creativity, and lots of people forget that he was an dreadful form at fly half when he was moved to centre

and is inconsistent at fly half and on his off days he really struggles to control a match which is crucial in tight matches, I remember in a match against South Africa he threw a costly intercept pass which cost 7 points and it was 5 points loss in 2008, also I know it was a while ago but he did the same error twice I think against Canada in the World Cup

also Dan Biggar gets a lot of unfair stick, you should give him credit that he did well last season and although he was rubbish for large parts of this season he is 21 and has time on his side to improve

the Ospreys galacticos tag was always stupid in my opinion, it was used mainly after that match where there were 13 Ospreys players in the Wales team

but galacticos is what a Real Madrid style team is with Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Raul, Beckham etc, which was about 9 or 10 of their XI world stars

not with Jonathan Thomas, Richie Hibbard, Huw Bennett, Paul James, Dan Biggar, Andrew Bishop, Nikki Walker, Ian Gough, Ian Evans and Ryan Jones none of whom you would give a thought to putting into a World XV

note: I'm not saying all these players are crap (although some of them are) just nowhere near a World XV

as for the future, Ashley Beck and Hanno Dirksen in particular have impressed me
 
But we still have super shane, an thats the main thing. Th players going can go, they were eating our "Salary cap" anyways; although to my knowledge we dont actually have one but the money "saved" can go elsewhere now. Hopefully there will be more cohesion now, less "individuals".

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Matthew Morgan needs a decent amount of gametime at 10 in the Magners League. Biggar is not the man for the Ospreys. Morgan might be, but not until he's developed a bit more. I really want to see him play, but it may be for the better if we give him a little bit more time.
 
Matthew Morgan needs a decent amount of gametime at 10 in the Magners League. Biggar is not the man for the Ospreys. Morgan might be, but not until he's developed a bit more. I really want to see him play, but it may be for the better if we give him a little bit more time.

I don't think throwing Morgan into the Pro12 will help him yet. He is not yet at that level, and needs time in the Premiership. I agree that Biggar is not the right player for the O's, and Nipper may be in a season or two, but not yet.
He doesn't need all eyes on him during his development. Let him play at a level he is comfortable for now, and move him up when he is ready.

Regarding Ryan Jones, he didn't do poorly, but I wouldn't want to have him as my second or third choice Second Row for the World Cup or Six Nations. He can cover the position pretty well, but it is not his best position. So yeah, as a backup if we really need it, but our third choice SR needs to be a specialist.
 
I don't think throwing Morgan into the Pro12 will help him yet. He is not yet at that level, and needs time in the Premiership. I agree that Biggar is not the right player for the O's, and Nipper may be in a season or two, but not yet.
He doesn't need all eyes on him during his development. Let him play at a level he is comfortable for now, and move him up when he is ready.

I dont know about that to be honest, I mean to score 14 tries from the outside half position last season for Swansea I think he should get more ospreys gametime next season.
 
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