[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Wales vs. South Africa (26/11/2016)

[SelimNiai]

World 11 maybe not although he is probably talented enough to play Soccer at a decent level. As to Sam D wait and see I think he could be better than all of them, he gets the nod at the Ospreys often enough and lets face it currently Ford may be better than Biggar but Farrell isn't and Sexton has become injury prone and is nearer the end of his career than the others.

What has his abilty, in your own mind, for him to play football got to do with anything at all.

Also, no he couldn't. Not even close, hes a talent yes but to claim he'll be anything more than an international squad player is a bit of a leap.

 

[Amiga500]

So, after the latest debacle, what do the SARU do?

If they revert to a meritocracy based selection, what would the impact be within SA politically? What would it be within rugby in SA? Any bokke willing to share their opinion on the matter?

 

[valley commando]

Oh such arrogance, being on a winning streak Wales have never achieved in their history coupled with a grand slam and a whitewash of Aus doesn't mean we are allowed to think we might WIN. Perish the though, English thinking they have any better players than someone else! Everyone knows English players are all mediocre or poached, there is no way any English can be in a world XV!

I mean look how arrogant we are, making a derogatory video about the Aussies before we faced them. Absolutely terrible. Also how we tried to make the Welsh side stand out in the dark, alone for 5 minutes when they came to Twickenham or how we didn't show the Scottish flag when they came to Twickenham. Perhaps the constantly regurgitating of the times we beat Wales as justification for how we are better? Damn don't you hate it when England do all those things to other sides whilst getting nothing but the nicest possibly treatment in return? Isn't it just horrible how England have gone into the last 4 6N saying nobody else needs to bother turning up because we are so much better it is already our grand slam and that the winner of our opening game would go on to be the winner of the 6N. Wasn't it terrible when Englishmen went bleating to the media about how we aren't respected enough and that our opponents are arrogant? How about that time we went to the press and said the opposition know our plans but have no way to stop us?

Incase your sarcasm detector has completely failed, everything above has been done by other nations towards England. So again, where is this English arrogance besides in your own little bigotted head? Are you completely oblivious to the fact that us English get a whole lot more **** thrown at us than we throw out yet a bunch of petty little nationalists like you act like you're the victim. Quite frankly I'm sick of it. Stop being such a bunch of petulent, deluded, cherry picking nationalists and grow the **** up.

And you wonder why so many fans outside of England have their 2nd favorite team as whoever's playing England.

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What has his abilty, in your own mind, for him to play football got to do with anything at all.

Also, no he couldn't. Not even close, hes a talent yes but to claim he'll be anything more than an international squad player is a bit of a leap.

I was replying to TommiG88's following comment -: 'For starters, Tips is no where near World XI,'
As for Sam D wait and see.

 

[SelimNiai]

Well he's not

 

[Shaggy]

Selection of world rugby sides are a pretty futile exercise ... They never play together as a team, and the "selections" are very much tainted by the person/people who are selecting them's own biases.

Does it really matter if you think player is the best player in a certain position, and someone else thinks differently?

Anyway, well done Wales, I've only seen highlights of the game, so don't really know how the various players went over the course of the full game.

I think Warren Gatland would be very encouraged by the performance of all of the NH hemisphere sides, and I'm sure he'll select the best players available to him, regardless of which team they play for. It should be a great six nations this year

 

[RedruthRFC]

I'm pretty sure that everyone realises that they're hypothetical and based on personal opinion (some of which are more objective than others). If people didn't find it interesting, we wouldn't see hundreds, if not thousands of such sides in the media every year.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

And you wonder why so many fans outside of England have their 2nd favorite team as whoever's playing England.

Is it a wonder there are plenty of petty nationalists in the world? Also most 6N teams want to see Wales fail more than England these days precisely because of people like you who whip out the arrogance card every chance you get whilst being the most condescending, arrogant nationalists the game has had the misfortune to have attracted.

So again, where is this English arrogance? Tell me what England have done that's so arrogant, or are you going to do what most nationalists do and say something vague like "we think we're better than everyone", ignoring the fact that that is trying to substantiate a claim with an identical unsubstantiated claim. I gave specifics of things that have actually happened or been said regarding England so where is this English arrogance?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

World 11 maybe not although he is probably talented enough to play Soccer at a decent level. As to Sam D wait and see I think he could be better than all of them, he gets the nod at the Ospreys often enough and lets face it currently Ford may be better than Biggar but Farrell isn't and Sexton has become injury prone and is nearer the end of his career than the others.

Bigger better than Farrell? Nah.

 

[Shaggy]

I'm pretty sure that everyone realises that they're hypothetical and based on personal opinion (some of which are more objective than others). If people didn't find it interesting, we wouldn't see hundreds, if not thousands of such sides in the media every year.

True enough RRFC, but I'd rather speculate on team selections that will actually play ... From an interested ... Er, I don't suppose I can call myself a neutral, given that you will be playing us, I rather see the speculation on who will make the B&I lions ... Anyhow, just more pointing out fantasy selections aren't worth getting upset about

 

[Ospreylian]

Jesus, what's happened to this thread?? I make a light-hearted comment about my opinion that Tipuric is world class and might, MIGHT, stand a chance of getting into a world XV, and all s*** hits the fan.

Why do you immediately assume that the opinion in based on jingoism?.

By that point in the conversation any kind of mature discussion had kinda gone for a hike tbh, as certain posters just kept repeating the same three words over and over. I was in no way implying that every England fan sees Tom Wood as the best in the world, although I find it an odd thing for you to get offended about.

Your fellow Welsh poster was arguing for at least 3 Welsh players to be considered in a World XV including AWJ.

Well... actually I wasn't "arguing" for them to be considered for this hypothetical world XV. I merely mentioned Tipuric as a stand out performer at the moment and stated my beliefs that he has the natural talent to be the best in his position in the world, and said you could argue he would get into a world XV, purely as a light-hearted comment (definitely NOT intended to offend the English in the way it has). The same with AWJ and Gethin, but if you noticed I put those two in brackets because I think they have less of a case. I didn't expect people to burn me at the stake for that opinion

Quite frankly I'm sick of it. Stop being such a bunch of petulent, deluded, cherry picking nationalists and grow the **** up.

Wow. That escalated while I was away. I hope you're not tarnishing all Welsh fans with the same brush there. I mean, all I said to begin with was Tipuric was very good. Please don't hurt me...

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't rate Tips that much as a 7. He's got amazing footballing ability but I question his work regarding the things you want from a forward. Should've played centre.

 

[Ospreylian]

I don't rate Tips that much as a 7. He's got amazing footballing ability but I question his work regarding the things you want from a forward. Should've played centre.

Gotta disagree strongly with you there. He is constantly diving into rucks and winning turnovers, he does actually hold his own in contact and makes ground most of the time, and so far this season (at both club and international level) he hasn't missed a single tackle.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Gotta disagree strongly with you there. He is constantly diving into rucks and winning turnovers, he does actually hold his own in contact and makes ground most of the time, and so far this season (at both club and international level) he hasn't missed a single tackle.

He's undoubtedly quality, but as a 7 I prefer Warbs. Back row of Moriarty, Warburton, Faletau seems much more balanced than Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau. I'd be keeping Tips as an impact sub. That said, I don't watch a ton of Welsh rugby so my opinion is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Jesus, what's happened to this thread?? I make a light-hearted comment about my opinion that Tipuric is world class and might, MIGHT, stand a chance of getting into a world XV, and all s*** hits the fan.



By that point in the conversation any kind of mature discussion had kinda gone for a hike tbh, as certain posters just kept repeating the same three words over and over. I was in no way implying that every England fan sees Tom Wood as the best in the world, although I find it an odd thing for you to get offended about.



Well... actually I wasn't "arguing" for them to be considered for this hypothetical world XV. I merely mentioned Tipuric as a stand out performer at the moment and stated my beliefs that he has the natural talent to be the best in his position in the world, and said you could argue he would get into a world XV, purely as a light-hearted comment (definitely NOT intended to offend the English in the way it has). The same with AWJ and Gethin, but if you noticed I put those two in brackets because I think they have less of a case. I didn't expect people to burn me at the stake for that opinion



Wow. That escalated while I was away. I hope you're not tarnishing all Welsh fans with the same brush there. I mean, all I said to begin with was Tipuric was very good. Please don't hurt me...

Fair enough. It's not like I said they were bad players (JT and AWJ are in my picks for the Lions squad) just saying AWJ's form this year hasn't been top notch by his standards and compared to other locks at international level this year. Will it be next year - I hope so. Then a certain poster on here jumped on my comment and decide to turn it into a typical "arrogant" English poster's comment. And well when he starts having a pop at nationality on here and tarring all posters from that nation with the same brush, then peeps are going to have a pop back.

 

[valley commando]

Is it a wonder there are plenty of petty nationalists in the world? Also most 6N teams want to see Wales fail more than England these days precisely because of people like you who whip out the arrogance card every chance you get whilst being the most condescending, arrogant nationalists the game has had the misfortune to have attracted.

So again, where is this English arrogance? Tell me what England have done that's so arrogant, or are you going to do what most nationalists do and say something vague like "we think we're better than everyone", ignoring the fact that that is trying to substantiate a claim with an identical unsubstantiated claim. I gave specifics of things that have actually happened or been said regarding England so where is this English arrogance?

Look in the mirror mate, that's arrogance.

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I don't rate Tips that much as a 7. He's got amazing footballing ability but I question his work regarding the things you want from a forward. Should've played centre.

Ha ha very funny

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He's undoubtedly quality, but as a 7 I prefer Warbs. Back row of Moriarty, Warburton, Faletau seems much more balanced than Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau. I'd be keeping Tips as an impact sub. That said, I don't watch a ton of Welsh rugby so my opinion is pretty irrelevant.

Warburton is a 6 IMO hes not mobile enough to be an out and out 7, Tips is a natural 7 a proper old style link between forwards and backs.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Wow. That escalated while I was away. I hope you're not tarnishing all Welsh fans with the same brush there. I mean, all I said to begin with was Tipuric was very good. Please don't hurt me...

Not aimed at you at all, that's to Valley and those like him who are petty little English-hating nationalists who still whip out the "arrogant English" card despite in being over a decade out of date and ignoring the Welsh arrogance around the 2012-15 years. Not all Welsh and Scots, just the whiny nationalist segment.

Look in the mirror mate, that's arrogance.

Tell me what England have done that's so arrogant, or are you going to do what most nationalists do and say something vague like "we think we're better than everyone", ignoring the fact that that is trying to substantiate a claim with an identical unsubstantiated claim.

My point proven, you can support it with anything beyond the fact English fans want and think England can win and that we don't like little nationalists like you.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Look in the mirror mate, that's arrogance.

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Ha ha very funny

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Warburton is a 6 IMO hes not mobile enough to be an out and out 7, Tips is a natural 7 a proper old style link between forwards and backs.

Think he's too good as a jackal and not good enough at ball carrying to be a 6. And is that the role of a 7? I thought that was the 8 and a 7 is a fetcher?

 

[RedruthRFC]

Jesus, what's happened to this thread?? I make a light-hearted comment about my opinion that Tipuric is world class and might, MIGHT, stand a chance of getting into a world XV, and all s*** hits the fan.

It tends to happen when someone gets their panties in a bunch and reacts utterly disproportionately to someone disagreeing with their opinion and goes on the offensive.

By that point in the conversation any kind of mature discussion had kinda gone for a hike tbh, as certain posters just kept repeating the same three words over and over. I was in no way implying that every England fan sees Tom Wood as the best in the world, although I find it an odd thing for you to get offended about.

The implication is that any England fan who doesn't agree with your assertion that Tipuric is the best seven in the world is either an idiot or so blinded by nationalistic bias that they would say something so stupid (read: another kind of idiot).

 

[Ospervat]

Here is the planned review for SA Rugby

http://www.sapeople.com/2016/11/26/south-african-rugby-plans-springbok-review-governance/

Mark Alexander said plans to bring governance structures more in line with the demands of professional sport were already well advanced while the immediate question of what to do about Springbok results was the organisation’s No 1 priority.

"We must coolly and coldly analyse what have been the main factors contributing to those results before determining what remedies are at our disposal to solve them. We will start by speaking to the coach and other team role players for their assessment and to provide our feedback. We will take feedback from forthcoming workshops and we must critically review our selection policy relating to overseas-based players"

Mr Alexander confirmed that the planned on-field interventions would continue as scheduled.

Don't know about governance structures being well advanced other than governance seems to be politically driven. Remove the political rules, practices and processes - that will be a step in the right direction.

At least their no1 priority is what to do about the results - while it makes reference to possibly including overseas players which is perhaps a move in the right direction it is clear the planned on-field interventions which refers to quotas and targets is an area that is not up for negotiation. So referring back to governance it seems politics will continue to dominate.

A conditioning workshop for the national teams and Vodacom Super Rugby biokineticists would take place on 7 December.

The coaching workshop between the Springbok coaches and franchise coaches takes place on 12 December.

Meanwhile, a General Council meeting on 9 December could also have a significant bearing on the future of rugby in South Africa, Mr Alexander said.

“A number of constitutional changes are being placed before the unions for their consideration,†he said.

Mr Alexander said the key changes planned are:

1 - New franchise and non-franchise rugby committees to improve communication between unions and Executive Council; to make recommendations on competitions and playing affairs; and to speed up decision making.

Good!


2 - Allowing third parties to take a majority shareholding in Unions’ commercial arms and have a voice in running rugby through the new franchise rugby committee.

Adding a few more carriages to the gravy train.


3 - Doubling independent representation on the Executive Council to four members plus the representative of the players

Independents - smells of nepotism.
Players - tow the line or you're out.


4 - Terminating the role of the vice-president (at the end of the current term in 2018) to bring the elected representation to six

And this helps how?


The Executive Council is also planning the creation of an Advisory Board of eminent individuals from business and civic society to act as a sounding board for rugby. That body would not have a constitutional role however.

So a toothless body that will be disregarded if it's opinion is counter to the political agenda.

Seems the more things change the more they stay the same!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Thing to remember is that nothaving any blokes in a world 15 is not too much of a big deal... England have been the second beast team in the world in 2016 and only a couple of players even vaguely put their hands up for a hypothetical world XV inclusion. There's always a bigger fish.