North Korea

[O'Rothlain]

i agree with a lot of what ripper said

the americans won the war in the pacific, while they euro allies worked it in central europe.. and then the usa gave the extra push to help secure the win for the allies..

the american who agreed with you ***us was probably a left wing cook who thinks that hillary clinton is the second coming of God..
[/b]

Being "the american" no, I am not a left wing cook, and in regards to Hillary Clinton, she can go stuff herself. I'm not a liberal. I don't hate my own country, nor do I think the whole thing going on in Iraq is/was bad. I, just admit, that as a group of people, we have a very narrow worldview. This narrowness often gets us in trouble with our foreign policy (ie, jumping full on into situations without the full back up of the other UN nations). In wars such as Iraq, it is not America defending America (even though that's what our government would like us to think). It is an international effort to end the reign of an evil dictator. Sidenote-regardless of WMD's or not, Iraq needed to be invaded, and Sadaam needed to be overthrown (not for the sake of worldwide democracy, but for the sake of human rights). Such an international effort, actually requires the cooperation of many nations (hence the word "international"). Unfortunately our government doesn't (or didn't) recognize that, and jumped full on into war, forcing those that call us "Ally" to jump in with us or "stand opposed to freedom." For this reason, the French hate us. My comments to our French friend were merely understanding of resentment, and an express of frustration at the continual media and government slandering of the french people (not government, because they are a load of corrupt ********).

3) Do you know History ????? America lost against the Viet Cong and never fought against viet minh (who were the ennemies of france during the indochina war that took place several years before the viet nam war).
Do you know the israel state was founded in 1948 by UK to give the jews a homeland after the holocaust ??? thats why the palestinian are fighting. what would you do if a band of ******** came and give your land to another ppl you hate (imagine that nz is given to france) wouldn't you fight to get your country back ? so don't blame the palestinian.[/b]

Mr. Ripper's response was correct. The Romans kicked the Israelites out of Jerusalem in 80AD (***us), and thus began the mass migration into western Europe. They have historically had to fight to defend a land "promised by God" (whether you believe that or not is up to you), and were finally given the right to take back their home after the mass genocide at the hands of the Germans. Do I agree with everything that Israel does? No. But, as a christian individual, I believe that it is a responsibility of the Christians to help protect the jewish homeland. The main thing I believe we should do is work towards non-violent means of peace (I know that sounds contradictary, but some view the only way to peace is through violence). The Bible says to "Pray for the Peace of Israel." Sorry to stand on a religious soapbox, but when it comes down to it, my friends, we are in the midst of a long standing feud of the offspring of Abraham.

 

[DC]

the french didn't want to join because they were giving him weapons and getting kickbacks... they were just a bunch of bullshitters and wouldnt back the USA because they didnt want to lose their most loyal dealer.

 

[wigan_rlfc]

It was the Jews who had Christ crucified.

 

[Canadian_Rugby_Guy]

the american who agreed with you ***us was probably a left wing cook who thinks that hillary clinton is the second coming of God..
[/b]

You mean she isn't? But seriously, I feel that there's cause to worry when basically any country starts trying to pick up their nuclear program. Especially if it's at the expense of feeding their people. You'd think the US might not try to attack so many of these countries if they weren't constantly threatening to start a war. Then again that might be an extremely naive comment on my part. basically, we've got reason to be concerned, but not paranoid.

 

[O'Rothlain]

It was the Jews who had Christ crucified.
[/b]

If you truly read scripture, It was all of us who had Christ crucified. It's that sort of ignorant belief system that allowed the majority of "Christian" people during the reigeim of Hitler and the Nazi's to overlook the mass genocide of the Jews.

 

[C A Iversen]

Wow, all you guys seem to know more than each other!

I'm in awe of the intolerance on display. Do you all wonder how the world became as it has?

We're all too busy poking our noses over other peoples fences, pointing out faults and forgetting how imperfect we are ourselves.

Thats the Americans, Israelites, Koreans, Aussies, English, Indian, Pakistani's, New Zealanders, The French, Indonesians, Chinese, Japanese, Irish, Russians, you guessed it, all of us.

I'm probably just standing in the way of spirited debate, but thats not the truth.

Your all as bad as who you talk about. You just want to win an argument and show your intellectual dominance over others through force of will.

Mind you I'm not one to talk, but at least I'm introspective enough to know it.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Agreed CA, let's just unite as one, we, the normal world, and blame North Korea. Or Canada.

 

[C A Iversen]

I enjoyed my little self-righteous idealistic rant too.

 

[tituslechmakus]

Agreed CA, let's just unite as one, we, the normal world, and blame North Korea. Or Canada.
[/b]

i was just arguing with O'Rothlain when ripper came to **** on me thats all ... never wanted that kind of discussion but i think i have the right to defend me when i get agressed ... i know france often do **** but at least i have the honesty to recognize it ... so don't **** on me as if i was the worst motherf****** on earth.

 

[C A Iversen]

Thats just inflammatory. Did I do that ***uslechmakus? I never referred to one individual at all. I was referring to the overall discussion.

I never in one single instance indicated that you were as you put it "the worst motherf***** on earth".

How does saying that all nations are responsible place blame on you specifically? Angry reactions........just what I was talking about.

You've twisted my and ST Helens RLFC's words, although I'm sure we can both forgive you.

 

[O'Rothlain]

blame canada

 

[C A Iversen]

Sure, they'll do....

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Best political debate for ages, by the way.

 

[sanzar]

Anyway, that paints the picture. The majority of people here are very ignorant and believe whatever they see in the media (hence Greendays' "American Idiot"). We have Fox News for the conservative and CNN for the liberal. They both equally put so much spin on a situation that no one really knows the truth. [/b]

Wait a sec... CNN is the "liberal network"? ****... you guys are in deeper than I thought. Fox is quite clearly an adjunct of the right and are beyond mere spin, they often outright lie (eg: the recent Foley incident where they had him listed as a Democrat). CNN are still a conservative network and not worthy of being considered true journalists. You really don't have any media that I would say adequately fulfill the role of the fourth estate over there, and I suggest you should start watching BBC World if you can get it, because that is a far more balanced and wide ranging news network.

Plus Americans are only interested in America, not the outside world, unless it negatively affects them. Everyone is overly patriotic (These colors don't run, ect..) to a point where they believe we are invincible and superior. We're constantly told that we should be spreading freedom and liberty whilst our own freedoms and liberties are being stolen in the name of "National Defense" or "Homeland Security". [/b]

Yeah, this is not a new tactic though, it's just that unfortunately most people don't seem to realise how new nationalism is and what it's original purpose was and still is... As you say, people in your country are willing to ostracise anyone who disagrees with the Republicans 'glorious war for freedom and democracy', never stopping to question whether their government is doing a good job for them on the domestic level (why are so many Americans seemingly apathetic to having an almost non existant public health system, one of the worst public education systems in the developed world, a minimum wage that hasn't bare moved in more than 15 years and stuff all social security left??? If a government with that much money can't provide you with such vital aspects of 'human security' then it has no business being in charge) or ever using the simple logic of international politics that dictates that countries are always 'in it for themselves'. States will not get involved in a conflict unless it is out of self defence or it is in their strategic interest, there are no morals... I'm not saying that all politics is cynical, but still, never trust a state that claims to have 'good' or 'god' on it's side, because that's a sure sign that they're after things they'd rather not admit.

 

[Ripper]

Thats just inflammatory. Did I do that ***uslechmakus? I never referred to one individual at all. I was referring to the overall discussion.

I never in one single instance indicated that you were as you put it "the worst motherf***** on earth".

How does saying that all nations are responsible place blame on you specifically? Angry reactions........just what I was talking about.

You've twisted my and ST Helens RLFC's words, although I'm sure we can both forgive you.
[/b]

No offence, but what else do you expect in a topic like this?

All of us to start beating drums while we all eat some of SANZAR's "Special" Brownies? Whats the point of even having this topic if we aren't allowed to debate.

 

[C A Iversen]

Yes, I did. Thats exactly what I expected. And I would like it now.

Seriously though, I probably never got the point across properly. What I should have added is that every human loves an argument and controversy at some point in time. The true point of this thread is to ***** at other nations other under the guise of voicing actual political concerns.

I guess what I'm saying is that this thread reflects and underlines the real mantra of modern times: "See things my way or taste my hate"

So go for it guys, it's as good a thing as any to believe in.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

SANZAR - I've told you about this before.... how can you accuse FOX News of spin when they have the No Spin Zone with Bill O'Reilly???

 

[tituslechmakus]

hum its allright with you all guys. the only fellow i felt agressed by is ripper that said "i hate french" and this sort of ****. as if it was a correct argument against what i was saying. i'm not responsible of what other did.
i was just agruing on my view if USA and he got in the discusion and he came to say "i hate you" just because i'm french and he didn't read waht i was saying. i was talking to an american and i was trying to explain my feeling on his nation. he never shitted on him because he was from there. i'm fed up with this kind of texts. i have the right to criticize ppl like you have the right to criticize me. i could listen to what rippper was saying and try to see if he was right or not ... but when you feel insulted you easily get angry !

so go on debatig mates as its apreciable to see other ppl's point of view, especially when you come from another country. i think its important for our generation to have this kind of talk. as we are all in the media world its important to exchange ideas so we could try to see what is truth in our TV news, as we all have different ones, but on the same topic. but don't attack personally somebody when you don't know him.

 

[C A Iversen]

Well, all I can say is a good point well made. It is a bit rough for someone to say they hate a whole country, but I'm sure it was just a gross exageration meant to get a reaction.

 

[O'Rothlain]

North Korea says UN sanctions imposed after its nuclear bomb test are a declaration of war, state media says.[/b]

Full Article

And for everyone who's been singing this song (at least in your mind) since he did the nuclear test...here's the video:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wO28NQc9tW4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wO28NQc9tW4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<div class='quotemain'>
Anyway, that paints the picture. The majority of people here are very ignorant and believe whatever they see in the media (hence Greendays' "American Idiot"). We have Fox News for the conservative and CNN for the liberal. They both equally put so much spin on a situation that no one really knows the truth. [/b]

Wait a sec... CNN is the "liberal network"? ****... you guys are in deeper than I thought. Fox is quite clearly an adjunct of the right and are beyond mere spin, they often outright lie (eg: the recent Foley incident where they had him listed as a Democrat). CNN are still a conservative network and not worthy of being considered true journalists. You really don't have any media that I would say adequately fulfill the role of the fourth estate over there, and I suggest you should start watching BBC World if you can get it, because that is a far more balanced and wide ranging news network.

Plus Americans are only interested in America, not the outside world, unless it negatively affects them. Everyone is overly patriotic (These colors don't run, ect..) to a point where they believe we are invincible and superior. We're constantly told that we should be spreading freedom and liberty whilst our own freedoms and liberties are being stolen in the name of "National Defense" or "Homeland Security". [/b]

Yeah, this is not a new tactic though, it's just that unfortunately most people don't seem to realise how new nationalism is and what it's original purpose was and still is... As you say, people in your country are willing to ostracise anyone who disagrees with the Republicans 'glorious war for freedom and democracy', never stopping to question whether their government is doing a good job for them on the domestic level (why are so many Americans seemingly apathetic to having an almost non existant public health system, one of the worst public education systems in the developed world, a minimum wage that hasn't bare moved in more than 15 years and stuff all social security left??? If a government with that much money can't provide you with such vital aspects of 'human security' then it has no business being in charge) or ever using the simple logic of international politics that dictates that countries are always 'in it for themselves'. States will not get involved in a conflict unless it is out of self defence or it is in their strategic interest, there are no morals... I'm not saying that all politics is cynical, but still, never trust a state that claims to have 'good' or 'god' on it's side, because that's a sure sign that they're after things they'd rather not admit.
[/b][/quote]

CNN is the liberal over here...maybe that is a sign of how twisted our news is? I do, by the way, watch BBC World News. I also read all my news from bbc.co.uk. I've found it to have a better point of view on international politics (especially those concerning America) than what I can find here. So, New Nationalism? Good term, it's a scary thing.