No Foreigners in our front rows

[Flankers' paradise]

As ever, define the words "came from"

Saints:. Dingwall, came from Northampton
Bath: ... Redpath, came from Sale
Sale: .... Tuilagi, came from Leicester
Sarries: Tomkins, came from Saracens
Bristol:. JVR, came from South Africa
Quins:.. Esterhuizen, came from South Africa
Exeter:. Devoto, came from Bath
Tigers:.. Kelly, came from Sale
Glos:..... Atkinson, came from Worcester
Falcons: Hutchison, came from Scotland

I make that 3 from 10

Redpath and Hutchinson Scottish, JVR and Esterhuizen SA and Tompkins for wales, that's 50%. And regarding backups is pointless because you don't pick your best back up centres to start internationals.

 

[Which Tyler]

Redpath and Hutchinson Scottish, JVR and Esterhuizen SA and Tompkins for wales, that's 50%. And regarding backups is pointless because you don't pick your best back up centres to start internationals.

But you said "came from" in a conversation about importing foreign talent.
Redpath and Tomkins were 100% produced by English clubs and England age-grade, they are NOT examples of foreigners coming to the Prem and blocking / aiding the development of English talent. They are English talent, who chose to represent a different nation (at least in part, because they're route to the English 12 shirt was blocked by Captain Clog-Hands).

I'd further note that 50% still isn't a majority.

 

[Flankers' paradise]

Okay, fine, you're right with the syntax. But England can't select those players is my point. And the development of the Eligible players hinders on being behind them and thus getting less game time. Realistically, for having 10 prem clubs we have 1 maybe 2 players we could select at 12. Ireland have 5 in one squad alone. The point being that is we weren't importing the likes of Esterhuizen, JVR, Nayacalevu et al then Anyanwu, Bedlow, Ojomoh etc would get sufficient exposure to build towards international quality.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Nayacalevu

Not even arrived in England yet, and doesn't even play 12

All of Sale's 12s are English next season (Bedlow, Bedlow Jr, Ma'asi White, L.James - can even throw Addison in the mix as his Irishness has timed out)

 

[Which Tyler]

Realistically, for having 10 prem clubs we have 1 maybe 2 players we could select at 12.

Well, 1-2 plus another 3-4 starters, plus another 7-8 2nd choice, plus another, what? dozen or so centres who can cover IC if required (sorry, I know we're only supposed to count first choice starters in the 12 shirt)

And regarding backups is pointless because you don't pick your best back up centres to start internationals.

Ireland have 5 in one squad alone.

If we can't count premiership back-ups, why can we pick URC back-ups? That doesn't seem terrible consistent.

 

[big ginger 8]

This thread has been thoroughly Englished...

 

[Groundhog]

Damn they really colonised our thread.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Who are deemed the next big thing for Irish props?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Who are deemed the next big thing for Irish props?

Haven't looked at Sales academy in a minute so not too sure.

 

[Groundhog]

Who are deemed the next big thing for Irish props?

Ehm, to be honest it's a tough one. There's no one who has Porter or Furlong level hype at that age. Milne is a very decent prospect. Jack Boyle has some hype. To be honest for Munster we have one lad Calvey who may or may not make it.

Others may know more, but there's no one currently I can point to and say 'he will be a shoe in long term international'.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ehm, to be honest it's a tough one. There's no one who has Porter or Furlong level hype at that age. Milne is a very decent prospect. Jack Boyle has some hype. To be honest for Munster we have one lad Calvey who may or may not make it.

Others may know more, but there's no one currently I can point to and say 'he will be a shoe in long term international'.

Paddy Mccarthy is coming for you with his phat glutes

 

[big ginger 8]

So looking around the provinces at frontrows who'll be 25 or under at the start of the next season:

Leinster:
Lee Barron
Tom Clarkson
John McKee
Michael Milne
Jack Boyle
Gus McCarthy
Paddy McCarthy
Rory McGuire

Munster:
Scott Buckley
Josh Wycherly
Max Clein
Mark Donnelly
Ronan Foxe
George Hadden
Darragh McSweeney
Kieran Ryan

Ulster:
James McCormick
Tom O'Toole
Callum Reid
Tom Stewart
Jack Boal
Jacob Boyd
Cam Doak
Zac Solomon
Henry Walker
Scott Wilson

Connacht:
Dylan Tierney Martin
Eoin De Buitlear
Jack Aungier
Sam Illo
Temi Lasisi
Fiachra Barrett
Matthew Victory


No surprises that Leinster have a lot of the talent. In general this makes me feel pretty good about hooker long term especially considering Sheehan and Kelleher aren't exactly old. There are some standouts at prop but a lot of guys I'm not sure will be the level we need especially at tighthead. Porter might be looking at a late career conversion back to tighthead.

Obviously O'Toole and Stewart are already internationals.

I expect Boyle and P. McCarthy to be standouts and definitely will be internationals.

Obviously there's a lot of guys we haven't seen much if at all at senior level so very hard to make a good judgement about them.

Guys I expect will pick up at least a cap or two are Milne, Wilson, McCormick, McGuire, and Clarkson.

Tierney-Martin and Gus McCarthy both have different things working against them but could make squads in the right circumstances.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gotta think Patreece Bell moves to a province sooner rather than later, after his continued presence in the Ireland u20s

 

[big ginger 8]

Gotta think Patreece Bell moves to a province sooner rather than later, after his continued presence in the Ireland u20s

I imagine he'll have an offer on the table from Connacht at least. I don't think he's looked great tbh and Boyd is shifting over from loosehead to start ahead of him tomorrow. I saw an interview with him where he spoke about how signing with Sale was one of the proudest moments of his life, so will be interesting to see what he does.

In typical Leinster fashion I should also mention that Smyth the Blackrock tighthead from this year has a lot of hype about him.

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah Bell for me has struggled a lot in this tournament but he is ultimately probably worth a pop. I don't think we will go for him, but Connacht probably will table an offer.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah I can't see us stopping him leaving with AOF the same age and already Prem ready, depends if anyone else comes knocking

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

IDK I always feel that having high benchmarks in sport encourages growth.

As with most things, it depends. If you use that higher benchmark to develop your own, it can work wonders. Now, if that benchmark (player) ends up taking playing time from your own, well, that could backfire spectacularly.
I know what's coming: "well, but that would never happen!"
I can think of 10 cases where that did happen, but lets just stick to the elephant in the room: Premier league. In 2017 they had more foreign players than any other league. And they are not a cheap place. I'm using 2017 numbers as they are the ones i recall. I am sure a 3 minute google would reveal similar figures for other years. And again, that is in % of players. I'd love to see that figure for % of money spent.
What do they have to show for it? (kindly note the date of this question!)

And i know what's coming next, too: "we will plan accordingly. We will use the benchmarks as benchmarks, not as eternal first starters taking the place of our own". Easier said than done. Doable, but it is not only difficult, it comes at a cost.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Joe Heyes mom was a former Irish basketball player.
Would be able to play for Ireland in 2 years. Don't think he would change now but who knows.

Oh god if Ireland picked up Dan Kelly and Joe Heyes I would cry.