NH Domestic Rugby > SH Domestic Rugby

[QLD]

The NH domestic rugby setup atm is far greater than that of SH rugby.

I love how there's the three top domestic leagues, Magners league, Guinness Premiership and Top 14. All top comps. Only problem would be from what I hear is confused Welsh rugby fans with the merging of the teams.

The H-Cup. I've been looking forward to this competition and the games so far have been amazing. I wish they showed more coverage of it here compared with the amount of coverage the Football European cup gets.

Fans here say the S14 is equivilent of the Hcup. I say its not. S14 is just a bad combination of the ML, GP and T14. One of the worst mistakes in professionalism was creating new franchises in 1996 for the S14 and abandoning the provinces (besides Queensland and NSW). The European teams continued on. I think more New Zealand fans aren't attracted to the super rugby teams anymore and more people are tuning into the ANZC (crowds up and ratings up 88%), as fans can attach to their province. Do fans want to support Canterbury or "the Crusaders"? Auckland or "The Blues"? I think SA fans love the currie cup just as much or even more than the S14.

Maybe SH rugby should go the NH way. Have a Aus/NZ comp and the Currie cup, with maybe 1-2 Argentina teams. The ANZ cup revert to the provincial system.. 5-6 Aussie teams and 7-8 NZ teams inc. North Harbour and Hawke's Bay and possibly Taranaki. Then have the super cup, a group and knockout tournament like the HCUP. Top 3 teams from ANZC, SA and maybe the 1 team from Argentina and Japan.

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Oct 18 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The NH domestic rugby setup atm is far greater than that of SH rugby.

I love how there's the three top domestic leagues, Magners league, Guinness Premiership and Top 14. All top comps. Only problem would be from what I hear is confused Welsh rugby fans with the merging of the teams.

The H-Cup. I've been looking forward to this competition and the games so far have been amazing. I wish they showed more coverage of it here compared with the amount of coverage the Football European cup gets.

Fans here say the S14 is equivilent of the Hcup. I say its not. S14 is just a bad combination of the ML, GP and T14. One of the worst mistakes in professionalism was creating new franchises in 1996 for the S14 and abandoning the provinces (besides Queensland and NSW). The European teams continued on. I think more New Zealand fans aren't attracted to the super rugby teams anymore and more people are tuning into the ANZC (crowds up and ratings up 88%), as fans can attach to their province. Do fans want to support Canterbury or "the Crusaders"? Auckland or "The Blues"? I think SA fans love the currie cup just as much or even more than the S14.

Maybe SH rugby should go the NH way. Have a Aus/NZ comp and the Currie cup, with maybe 1-2 Argentina teams. The ANZ cup revert to the provincial system.. 5-6 Aussie teams and 7-8 NZ teams inc. North Harbour and Hawke's Bay and possibly Taranaki. Then have the super cup, a group and knockout tournament like the HCUP. Top 3 teams from ANZC, SA and maybe the 1 team from Argentina and Japan.[/b]

Any domestic rugby > Australian Domestic Rugby.

I think if the Air New Zealand Cup developed into a more professional competition, then it could be very good, however until then the Super 14 will be the consolation prize.

 

[erwanseb]

I do not want to draw fast (too fast ??) conclusions, but these first two rounds have been extremely enjoyable, with the running, passing dimension finally setting in (some games were dull but which competition hasn't got a couple of dull games ?).

Great upsets (Treviso vs Perpignan, Leinster vs Irish) have added a pinch of uncertainty some times missing.

French clubs obviously mean business this year.

Overall, a very exciting tournament so far

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Oct 18 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think if the Air New Zealand Cup developed into a more professional competition, then it could be very good, however until then the Super 14 will be the consolation prize.[/b]

It would be stupid to throw away competition between the sanzar nations in a regular, region based format. The standard of play in the S14 is what is maintaining the quality of SH international sides!

The only way the ANZ Cup is going to get more professional is if more money is involved, and that will only happen when there are more potential consumers watching the advertisements on TV come game time. This will really only happen (presumably) when NZ's population increases significantly.

England can support their own top flight "provincial" league because they have enough people paying enough money to watch rugby. NZ, Aus and SA to a lesser extent just don't have enough viewers.

 

[Steve-o]

Much like Argentina, Australia need to sort out their (or lack thereof) domestic league.
The new S15 format will allow more home derbies but it appears it will still be lacking in the drama of a proper cup competition but it will be better than the current setup. At least things are improving in that regard.
Luckily for South Africa, our rugby has the 3rd highest TV ratings after England and France, so we'll do ok.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lets not forget that the H'Cup format (With more teams) is a more exciting format.

But think while some teams in SH aren't progressing and improving causing big gaps in standards every team in H'Cup is getting to a high standard making 95% of games very tight and hard to predict a clear winner.

 

[durbutter]

Helped in no small part by Sh imports. Paul Warrick i love you.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Oct 18 2009, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Helped in no small part by Sh imports. Paul Warrick i love you.[/b]

Paul Warwick is true Munster man born and bred in Limerick :lol: :lol:

 

[gingergenius]

how good is the Heineken Cup!!

In the last 2 weeks we've had about 10 matches between top class teams that have been high class entertainment and have been very close. No tournament besides the world cup matches the HC for drama, excitement, intensity and quality of rugby.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 18 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

how good is the Heineken Cup!!

In the last 2 weeks we've had about 10 matches between top class teams that have been high class entertainment and have been very close. No tournament besides the world cup matches the HC for drama, excitement, intensity and quality of rugby.[/b]

Don't think the World Cup offers as much .... H'Cup is the best competition in world

 

[Nickdnz]

God bless NH inflated opinions of themselves...

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Oct 19 2009, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

God bless NH inflated opinions of themselves...[/b]

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Oct 19 2009, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

God bless NH inflated opinions of themselves...[/b]

Jah bless how predictable it is that Nickdnz will speak out when Kiwi/ All Black hegemony is disputed.

Find me another competition that has 10-15 teams all operating on a very high level, who play each other and REGULARLY produce highly exciting, entertaining and tense matches with very few points between them come the final whistle. And this is merely the group stage, we haven't even got down to the business end of the tournament yet.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 19 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Oct 19 2009, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God bless NH inflated opinions of themselves...[/b]

Jah bless how predictable it is that Nickdnz will speak out when Kiwi/ All Black hegemony is disputed.

Find me another competition that has 10-15 teams all operating on a very high level, who play each other and REGULARLY produce highly exciting, entertaining and tense matches with very few points between them come the final whistle. And this is merely the group stage, we haven't even got down to the business end of the tournament yet.
[/b][/quote]

Not to mention it was an Aussie who started the thread.

 

[dullonien]

Yup, in a tournament where only one of Clermont, Leicester and the Ospreys are likely to make it through to the knock-out stages from a group that arguably isn't the toughest in the competition, everyone knows it's something special. It's probably one of the toughest and most highly competative tournaments in the world (involving club teams), only the Champions League probably beats it.

It's proving even more so this year. Soo many close games, that could have gone either way. The likes of the Dragons and Scarlets turing up, French teams taking it seriously, Viadanna pushing hard (and winning) is awesome. Some might say that the Italian sides spoil it slightly, but they're steadily improving. I hope that in a few years when they've got up to speed in the Magners league, and many of their top class internationals are back playing for Italian clubs, the days of expecting 10 points will be over.

Just a pitty the first group of matches is already over. December will be great.

 

[shazbooger]

Champions league doesnt come close. To many preliminary money making fixtures that dont capture the imagination.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Oct 19 2009, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

God bless NH inflated opinions of themselves...[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 19 2009, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yup, in a tournament where only one of Clermont, Leicester and the Ospreys are likely to make it through to the knock-out stages from a group that arguably isn't the toughest in the competition, everyone knows it's something special. It's probably one of the toughest and most highly competative tournaments in the world (involving club teams), only the Champions League probably beats it.

It's proving even more so this year. Soo many close games, that could have gone either way. The likes of the Dragons and Scarlets turing up, French teams taking it seriously, Viadanna pushing hard (and winning) is awesome. Some might say that the Italian sides spoil it slightly, but they're steadily improving. I hope that in a few years when they've got up to speed in the Magners league, and many of their top class internationals are back playing for Italian clubs, the days of expecting 10 points will be over.

Just a pitty the first group of matches is already over. December will be great.[/b]

Oh man, if you haven't been to Viadana or most of the Italian clubs then you haven't lived. I think one of the best aspects of the HEC is the opportunity to go abroad as an away fan. Sure Saints and Sarries got hammered at Perpignan and Toulon last weekend but the fans who traveled there probably had one of the best European holidays they'll remember. The Italian teams need to be in there to improve their players and to boost the profile of the sport in that country. 


I honestly don't understand it. In a time where thanks to a certain <strike>hypocritical obnoxious knob</strike> Michael O'Leary flights to France, Ireland, Italy and the UK are mere pounds/euros, at a time where some of the finest welcomes and rugby grounds can be found on the continent I find that  out of all of us who are on this board I think only myself, Mite and Webby and a couple of others have traveled abroad to follow their team. Whhhyy?! Jesus guys, even the Mayor of Biarritz turns up at the Airport dressed as a red indian to welcome visiting teams and fans and then organise a day of events with beer, wine, food, tug-o-wars and so on! They're practically begging you to come visit, enjoy rugby, eat, drink and be merry!

Anyway, I'll be going to Rovigo in January to check that place out and most likely I'm going to find it awesome!




Thats why the HEC and ACC are awesome in my eyes.

 

[Jer1cho]

Am i the only one who believes that you can't compare the 2?

Come on guys. Both tournaments are fantastic entertainment, and i don't think that one is better than the other. I love the H Cup, because there are so many players from all over the world playing in it. It showcases some of the best rugby on the planet thanks to there being stars in almost every team. It's a competition that produces great games because there are so many teams that can beat anyone else on their day. Upsets happen every week, and some great rugby is produced when the power-houses collide. With 6 countries involved, it's no wonder the competition is so exciting to watch.

The Super 14 only has 3 Countries involved, with horrible travel schedules, and usually the same names every year. But, the teams are still made up of the best players from the top 3 teams in world rugby. The real big names are players in this tournament, and some even say that a few games match the intensity of a New Zealand vs South Africa game. The running games are fantastic, and the strength of some of the teams are incredible. The Bulls team that won it earlier this year, are in my opinion, good enough to beat every NH international side (readies umbrella...) when they are in the form they showed this year.

Geographical locations, and players actually having lives prevents us from having a world league, but once instant teleportation is invented, we can look forward to the real greatest tournament on earth.

Some differences i have notice:

-The Super 14 has a much faster pace than the H' Cup, with the running game being far more dominant down here.
- The H' Cup is a lot more structured, as well as organized when it comes to schedules
- The H' Cup produces more nail-biters, thanks to there being so many teams, whereas the S14 have the really big guns only getting upset once or twice a season.
- The Super 14 is more physical. I have watched every H' Cup game so far, and have seen some really big hits, but no team hits as hard as the ones we have down here. The breakdowns are ferocious in the Super14, and there are at least 3-4 blood bins a game (real ones that is... cough)
- The H'Cup have more exciting teams. This is a no-brainer. Internationals from all over playing in one team, against another with their own set of internationals is just awesome.

There are a couple more, but i'm a little lazy to list them all. But in conclusion, both tournaments are great, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. Any, and every opinion here will be purely based on personal opinion, more than that, it's unfair to say.

 

[Jockstap]

Jean De Villiers views on the Heineken Cup.

http://www.keo.co.za/2009/10/13/jdv-enjoyi...ropean-sojourn/

Jean de Villiers says the standard of the European Cup is just as tough as the Super 14.

De Villiers’ Munster went down to Northampton 31-27 in the first round of the northern hemisphere club showpiece and have a fixture against Treviso â€" who shocked French champs Perpignan â€" on Saturday. The Springbok centre was impressed with the quality of rugby in comparison with the southern hemisphere provincial competition.

‘It’s definitely right up there,’ De Villiers said of the standard. ‘Tough, very physical, good pace to the game and the skills levels of the guys are pretty high.

‘For me it was very enjoyable and just as tough as any of the Super 14 games I’ve played anywhere.’

De Villiers has played three matches for the Irish club, of which they’ve lost two. The entire squad needs to fire and De Villiers intimated it will take a few matches to become accustomed to his new team-mates

‘It was obviously disappointing to lose the game but it was a great experience. Unfortunately we didn’t get the win but I’m looking forward to playing at Thomond Park this weekend and hopefully we can get a win under our belts.

‘It’s about getting comfortable in the team and your role in the squad, but I think it’s getting better each week.’

De Villiers, who is missing out on a Newlands semi-final this weekend, said the atmosphere in Europe was just as electric, but a different experience due to the smaller crowds.

‘The atmosphere was really really good. Back home we’ve usually got bigger stadiums but it’s harder to fill them. Here they’re smaller so you really feel the crowd close to you. The atmosphere was fantastic,’ he said.

‘And to see the travelling support for Munster was awesome. Probably because of distances we don’t really have that at home. So again for me that was a great experience, very enjoyable.’

Yet another SH player confirming the HC is on par with the Super 14.

 

[Jer1cho]

These threads are starting to annoy me now. Why couldn't you just post this in the other thread? Sometimes i wish i had the power to wipe these stupid threads when they can be placed in the billions that are already open about this topic.