Messi wins fourth straight Ballon d'Or

[psychic duck]

A large gap from the top 2 to the chasing pack exists. However those who say that this makes the Premier League a better than La Liga should examine last year's table from England. There's a 19 point gap from second to third and at no point during the season did it look like the chasing pack would ever challenge the Manchester sides. 3rd place lost to 2nd 8-2 for crying out loud! So I don't think you can use that argument truth be told.

The 19 point gap last season in the Premier League between 2nd and 3rd was the highest in the league's history though. The seasons before it was 0 and 10 points. So it hasn't been like that for a few seasons in a row.

In La Liga's past three seasons the gap has been 30 points, 21 points and 25 points. And if you look at the top 2's goals scored and goal differences compared to the rest of the league it suggests that they had a number of cakewalks over the some of the opposition.

However it may be changing again as La Liga this season seems to be a bit more competitive for second with Real not doing so well, and the Premier League seems to be getting a more dominant top 2.

 

[lucky number 7]

Not the biggest soccer fan in the world top be honest but I'd put a player who can prove himself in the premier league streaks ahead of one in La Liga.

I just think that the mid table teams are stronger in the Prem. Although you cited 11 teams having represented in the Champions league to me that shows inconsistency rather than the skill of the teams involved. The physicality of the premier league I feel gives it a massive edge I think. Pop Stoke into the La Liga and I reckon they would come up with the goods very regularly by just being completely brutish.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Not the biggest soccer fan in the world top be honest but I'd put a player who can prove himself in the premier league streaks ahead of one in La Liga.

I just think that the mid table teams are stronger in the Prem. Although you cited 11 teams having represented in the Champions league to me that shows inconsistency rather than the skill of the teams involved. The physicality of the premier league I feel gives it a massive edge I think. Pop Stoke into the La Liga and I reckon they would come up with the goods very regularly by just being completely british.

Don't get this argument either. If the English mid table sides were so special they'd be winning the UEFA Cup every year, or at least outperforming their Spanish counterparts. But they're not. Man United got embarrassed by Bilbao last season, while Spurs were put out by Greek and Russian teams, Birmingham failed to get out of their group, Fulham finished behind Dutch and Polish teams, and Stoke were beaten home and away by Valencia. Meanwhile two Spanish teams made it to the final. The year before Villareal went further than both Liverpool and Man City, and the year before that Atletico Madrid won the thing.

 

[lucky number 7]

Don't get this argument either. If the English mid table sides were so special they'd be winning the UEFA Cup every year, or at least outperforming their Spanish counterparts. But they're not. Man United got embarrassed by Bilbao last season, while Spurs were put out by Greek and Russian teams, Birmingham failed to get out of their group, Fulham finished behind Dutch and Polish teams, and Stoke were beaten home and away by Valencia. Meanwhile two Spanish teams made it to the final. The year before Villareal went further than both Liverpool and Man City, and the year before that Atletico Madrid won the thing.

What would you consider more important foccussing on the league which is widely regarded as the pinnacle of football or winning the equivalent of the amlin challenge cup

 

[Feicarsinn]

What would you consider more important foccussing on the league which is widely regarded as the pinnacle of football or winning the equivalent of the amlin challenge cup

Because Stoke are going to win the league any day now eh? Winning the Uefa CUp would rank as one of the greatest achievements in the history of the club. To not go after it is incredibly stupid.


How about this then? How come two relatively unheralded Spanish mid table players in Michu and Santi Cazorla were able to come over to England and be absolute revelations?

 

[psychic duck]

Because Stoke are going to win the league any day now eh? Winning the Uefa CUp would rank as one of the greatest achievements in the history of the club. To not go after it is incredibly stupid.


How about this then? How come two relatively unheralded Spanish mid table players in Michu and Santi Cazorla were able to come over to England and be absolute revelations?

Styles, adaptations and fortune all plays a part.

In Rugby, Kiwis were probably baffled as to how average Super Rugby players Thomas Waldrom and Riki Flutey who barely cracked the Hurricanes side came over to England and were named in the Premiership Dream Teams and soon capped by England, Flutey even went on Lions tour. Ben Blair was a very average player in Super Rugby and is considered as a poor All Black selection as he got totally shown up by Cohen, but was one of the best in Magners League for a few years.

However on the otherhand, some players like Rico Gear, Joe Rokocoko, Chris Jack, Christian Cullen hardly made an impact at all in Europe despite being stars at Super Rugby or All Black level.

Similarly in football, Albert Luque came from Spanish league and was a flop for Newcastle. Robinho ended up being subbed as a substitute at Man City after arriving from Real Madrid. Fernando Morientes also didn't show his best in the Premier League. So it works both ways.

 

[Helmy]

It does work both ways, but the argument it usually that Spanish players find it harder to adapt to the Premier League than English players going the other way, which fits into the English Premier League is better rhetoric. It's apples and oranges. I think La Liga showcases more on the spectacle, the dives, the odd bust-up, flowing football, ten goals a match kind of stuff. Watching El Clasico these days has been like watching an episode of the Young and the Restless. The English Premier League is played with different mindset that is more reflective of the values of the country.

Personally, I'd be more likely to sit down and watch a random La Liga match than a Premier League one. But, then the team I follow religiously are West Ham.

Another thing to consider is the mentality of the Spanish players, which in a way is similar to Top 14 teams regularly losing away, a lot of teams have already lost to Barcelona or Real Madrid before they've even played them. The respect errs on reverence at times, which is why I think Spanish teams do better against foreign powerhouses than their own, the mental block isn't there.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Because Stoke are going to win the league any day now eh? Winning the Uefa CUp would rank as one of the greatest achievements in the history of the club. To not go after it is incredibly stupid.


How about this then? How come two relatively unheralded Spanish mid table players in Michu and Santi Cazorla were able to come over to England and be absolute revelations?

Cazorla came from Malaga, one of Spain's Champions League sides for this year after playing for Villareal who were also regulars in CL before they got relegated and Michu, much like Gylfie Sigurdsson last year is one of the signings of the season and they are both playing for mid-table premier league sides.

I think the difference in the two leagues is that the mid to low table sides know how to put it up to the biggest sides in the premier league where as they don't in La Liga. Look at Everton, 5th in the league but have gotten points off 3 of the 4 teams ahead of them, beating Man Utd, yet they have lost to Reading, West Brom and drew to QPR compared to Real Betis also 5th but lost all games against the top 4 sides.

 

[Helmy]

Cazorla came from Malaga, one of Spain's Champions League sides for this year after playing for Villareal who were also regulars in CL before they got relegated and Michu, much like Gylfie Sigurdsson last year is one of the signings of the season and they are both playing for mid-table premier league sides.

I think the difference in the two leagues is that the mid to low table sides know how to put it up to the biggest sides in the premier league where as they don't in La Liga. Look at Everton, 5th in the league but have gotten points off 3 of the 4 teams ahead of them, beating Man Utd, yet they have lost to Reading, West Brom and drew to QPR compared to Real Betis also 5th but lost all games against the top 4 sides.

Which really only means that Everton are one win better than Real Betis...

Then what about Athletic Bilbao? They've been up there for a while, but are sitting 14th this year, perhaps comparable to Everton when they were struggling around the relegation zone in recent years. Then there's Getafe sitting in 10th, who took points off of Real Madrid.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Which really only means that Everton are one win better than Real Betis...

Then what about Athletic Bilbao? They've been up there for a while, but are sitting 14th this year, perhaps comparable to Everton when they were struggling around the relegation zone in recent years. Then there's Getafe sitting in 10th, who took points off of Real Madrid.

Or 5 pts better? and QPR beat Chelsea. I wasn't saying that the BPL was better, personally I think they're about equal with the smaller teams in the BPL being less afraid of the big teams than the equivalent sides in La Liga against the big two in particular.

 

[Helmy]

Or 5 pts better? and QPR beat Chelsea. I wasn't saying that the BPL was better, personally I think they're about equal with the smaller teams in the BPL being less afraid of the big teams than the equivalent sides in La Liga against the big two in particular.

Can't argue with that.