Messam Sets Sights on Rio

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So, Liam Messam says he wants to go to the Olympics with the NZ Sevens side. SBW is rumoured to want to go too and I'm sure there's plenty of other 15s stars - New Zealander or otherwise - who are thinking about switching codes for the Olympics.

I don't think it's really fair though. For any regular observers of the World Sevens Series, the current world sevens players are stars in their own right and are more deserving of Olympic's places than the 15s fellas. If the likes of Tomasi Cama, Lote Raikabula or Tim Mikkelson failed to make the Olympics because an All Black took their place it would be an injustice. Not that those particular players would lose their places (their too good) but it could well happen to many other regular World Series stars from other countries.

The IRB should bring in a rule saying that any player can play for their country in both codes but can not play 7s at 'Test' level again if they're capped at 15s. This rule could only reasonably apply to the bigger 7s nations (NZ, SA, OZ, England, Wales, Scotland, France, Fiji, Samoa, Argentina) because the likes of Spain, Canada, etc., wouldn't be able to field competitive teams in either code if their players couldn't play both.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They wouldn't even have to go that far - the Olympics committee could just say you're not eligible for the olympics if you're capped for your country's main side.
Similar to the rules on football (age range or something like that).

 

[Peat]

They wouldn't even have to go that far - the Olympics committee could just say you're not eligible for the olympics if you're capped for your country's main side.
Similar to the rules on football (age range or something like that).

Football works on entire squad must be U23 except three players. Been plenty of full internationals playing football at the Olympics.

I have no problem with full internationals going to play 7s in the Olympics. Well, apart from the amount of time they'd have to spend playing 7s before hand.

 

[nickdnz]

I disagree. I don't see why the best players should be allowed to play. Of the players just mentioned - I'd be disappointed if Cama and Raikabula were still in the main team considering their age. Should a 800m sprinter not be allowed to enter in the 100m if he's quick enough?

The reality is that players in the XV's may not be the best 7's players anymore. As it so happens Liam Messam has played a lot of 7's - including winning a medal in the last commonwealth games, and ***jens rates him as one of the best forwards he has ever worked with. I'd be pretty annoyed if any XV's player who played for there country was unable to trial and if successful, compete at 7's. Furthermore I'd say it would actually become detrimental to the XV's game.

 

[bobbilycious]

I disagree. I don't see why the best players should be allowed to play. Of the players just mentioned - I'd be disappointed if Cama and Raikabula were still in the main team considering their age. Should a 800m sprinter not be allowed to enter in the 100m if he's quick enough?

The reality is that players in the XV's may not be the best 7's players anymore. As it so happens Liam Messam has played a lot of 7's - including winning a medal in the last commonwealth games, and ***jens rates him as one of the best forwards he has ever worked with. I'd be pretty annoyed if any XV's player who played for there country was unable to trial and if successful, compete at 7's. Furthermore I'd say it would actually become detrimental to the XV's game.

Yep, it perhaps will be a little detrimental. However, Gordon Tietjens has been helping our game for years by bringing through some of these players. Sure, some of them would have made the All Blacks anyway, but not all of them. Liam Messam is perhaps one of these guys. He was 120kg when Tietjens first brought him in but Tietjens helped him to get fit.

Are they getting rid of the 7s WC? I think it would be silly to have the WC when you already have the Olympics and the Commonwealth Games.

 

[nickdnz]

Yep, it perhaps will be a little detrimental. However, Gordon Tietjens has been helping our game for years by bringing through some of these players. Sure, some of them would have made the All Blacks anyway, but not all of them. Liam Messam is perhaps one of these guys. He was 120kg when Tietjens first brought him in but Tietjens helped him to get fit.

Are they getting rid of the 7s WC? I think it would be silly to have the WC when you already have the Olympics and the Commonwealth Games.

Yep, the 7's World Cup is no more to my knowledge - I think it was part of what made the Olympics consider 7's, the promise it would be the premier tournament for 7's.

I don't know what the first part is arguing. From your argument I take that 7's has done a lot of good in the development of XV's players. I agree. Which is why I don't see why XV's players should be excluded from 7's, because there is a good chance that players playing both 7's and XV's will improve both games - and I disagree that they are so fundementally different that players can't make the change.

I think Peat hit the nail on the head (as usual) - the important issue should be the amount of time and preparation the players put into 7's beforehand. I think at least one or two IRB tournaments should be required in order to make the Olympic team - so you don't get XV's players trying to get a gold medal without putting in work.

 

[William18]

I don't see the need for any type of restrictions to be put in place. If you are one of the 12 best rugby 7's players in your country and you are available then you should go to the Olympics. If Cama, Mikkelson and Raikabula are in that group then they will go to Rio, if they aren't then they won't. I find it very unlikely that a whole host of All Blacks could just come into the 7's side and kick out the regulars. I think your play maker at least has to be an experienced player. If you are a wing then I think it is easy to convert. I think we will just see one or two All Blacks in the 7's team for Rio.

 

[bobbilycious]

Yep, the 7's World Cup is no more to my knowledge - I think it was part of what made the Olympics consider 7's, the promise it would be the premier tournament for 7's.

I don't know what the first part is arguing. From your argument I take that 7's has done a lot of good in the development of XV's players. I agree. Which is why I don't see why XV's players should be excluded from 7's, because there is a good chance that players playing both 7's and XV's will improve both games - and I disagree that they are so fundementally different that players can't make the change.

I think Peat hit the nail on the head (as usual) - the important issue should be the amount of time and preparation the players put into 7's beforehand. I think at least one or two IRB tournaments should be required in order to make the Olympic team - so you don't get XV's players trying to get a gold medal without putting in work.

I don't even know what I'm arguing, to be honest. I probably didn't mean to quote you. I'm all for the players having an opportunity to go to the Olympics.

 

[nickdnz]

I don't even know what I'm arguing, to be honest. I probably didn't mean to quote you. I'm all for the players having an opportunity to go to the Olympics.

:lol: - we're in combatitive agreement.

I don't see the need for any type of restrictions to be put in place. If you are one of the 12 best rugby 7's players in your country and you are available then you should go to the Olympics. If Cama, Mikkelson and Raikabula are in that group then they will go to Rio, if they aren't then they won't. I find it very unlikely that a whole host of All Blacks could just come into the 7's side and kick out the regulars. I think your play maker at least has to be an experienced player. If you are a wing then I think it is easy to convert. I think we will just see one or two All Blacks in the 7's team for Rio.

The time thing is more a case of proving that you are in fact one of the best 7's players. You couldn't put guys in there on reputation alone. Therefore one or two tournements before hand is probably pretty important. Especially with the league guys wanting to play 7's - they'd have to prove they are actually capable.

 

[OneBlackEye]

While my knee-jerk reaction was that it isnt fair that went out the window pretty quickly.

Its the Olympics, Im pretty sure everyone involved has one thing on their mind: gold. So whoever it is, if they are deemed most likely to bring back a medal then they should be and will be going. Im pretty sure the selectors and coaches know what they are doing and if the player can contractually play and wants to, then thats it really.

Id hate to see a situation where someone like SBW went just to create more public interest or hype IF he wasnt the best player for the job. But realistically thats not going to happen is it? Imagine Tietjens reaction to that!

And I dont know why anyone would chance throwing a random 15s or league player into the mix just for the Olympics. That makes no sense. I dont think you need a rule making them play in 2 or more tournaments before they make the squad, I think youd have to be out of your mind to let them play if they hadnt!