Margaret Thatcher Passes Away

[Rhondda Rudie]

I know she was loved by some but I'm afraid there won't be many tears shed in these parts.Such a divisive figure.

 

[Big Ewis]

WOW !! Sorry, just had to stop by really quick just to say this: the ***LE dude !! There's got to be a better way to phrase it !!! :lol:

 

[SelimNiai]

WOW !! Sorry, just had to stop by really quick just to say this: the ***LE dude !! There's got to be a better way to phrase it !!! :lol:

Honestly, thats one of the more polite ways to sum up whats happened

 

[McTallshort]

I know she was loved by some but I'm afraid there won't be many tears shed in these parts.Such a divisive figure.

Same here, all the mines and heavy industry gone forever to be replaced by coffee shops, call centres and compo lawyers. energy companys hiking up prices in a way they wouldnt have dared if they were state owned. Nothing good came out of her premiership, Nothing

 

[Peat]

Honestly, thats one of the more polite ways to sum up whats happened

Saw a banner going down Brixton saying "The ***** is Dead".

 

[Conal]

there was literally celebrations in pubs tonight.

have to say bar the southern english and the upper/ some for he middle class did anyone like her?

 

[LittleGuy]

Same here, all the mines and heavy industry gone forever to be replaced by coffee shops, call centres and compo lawyers. energy companys hiking up prices in a way they wouldnt have dared if they were state owned. Nothing good came out of her premiership, Nothing

This was leaving regardless, the heavy industry was so subsidized in the UK in the two decades prior to Thatcher it was comical. There was no panacea in the 70's before she came in, people like my parents(who left in 74) jumped at the oppourtunity to leave. I can count dozens of ex pats in my area who left in the same time period of mid 60's-late 70's, rampant inflation, huge welfare rolls (people made more money being unemployed then they did working), a bloated and unnacountable public sector. In fact her policies weren't even wholly repudiated by her succesors....even Labour under Blair didn't return to the pre-80's socialist mantra they had.

Edit: Her divisness reminds me a lot of Pierre Trudeau's legacy here in Canada(although he as a left wing politician), loved by some and equally hated by others at the same time, has ranked as both best and worst Canadian ever in certain polls.

 

[Superalexmarket]

She ordered sinking the Belgrano cruiser in neutral waters; she needed that war like water in the desert. Should have been judged for war crimes like all the genocide argentine Junta of that time. It´s a good day for Peace.

 

[Feicarsinn]

This was leaving regardless, the heavy industry was so subsidized in the UK in the two decades prior to Thatcher it was comical. There was no panacea in the 70's before she came in, people like my parents(who left in 74) jumped at the oppourtunity to leave. I can count dozens of ex pats in my area who left in the same time period of mid 60's-late 70's, rampant inflation, huge welfare rolls (people made more money being unemployed then they did working), a bloated and unnacountable public sector. In fact her policies weren't even wholly repudiated by her succesors....even Labour under Blair didn't return to the pre-80's socialist mantra they had.

Edit: Her divisness reminds me a lot of Pierre Trudeau's legacy here in Canada(although he as a left wing politician), loved by some and equally hated by others at the same time, has ranked as both best and worst Canadian ever in certain polls.

I still maintain that a lot of Britain's current economic woes are the fault of Thatcher based economics. It's all well and good having a strong financial services sector, but at the end of the day you actually have to make stuff. That's why the Germans are in such a strong position relative to the rest of Europe, a strong industrial sector. There's also the fact that she let society go to ****.

 

[LittleGuy]

I still maintain that a lot of Britain's current economic woes are the fault of Thatcher based economics. It's all well and good having a strong financial services sector, but at the end of the day you actually have to make stuff. That's why the Germans are in such a strong position relative to the rest of Europe, a strong industrial sector. There's also the fact that she let society go to ****.

Well it's not the only reason Germany is stronger than most of Europe though it is a big factor, and if that Industrial sector is simply a subsidized mess making products nobody wants or needs than it's not a strength but a burden to the countries economy. Take a look at Pre-Thatcher era industrial policy which was hilariously selling ships at a loss....



Edit: This is probably going to turn into a left-right ******* match(wth some Argentine and Irish Republican issues thrown in as well) which we could debate till were blue and red in the face so I'm out of the thread after this one. My only point is that the UK wasn't a perfect(or even good) place before Thatcher got in office and I felt like some were clearly ignoring this fact in their posts, we could argue the wrong direction was taken( I don't feel this way I think she was the right medicine) but the course of the country in the 60's-70's simply couldn't be maintained.

 

[William18]

I still maintain that a lot of Britain's current economic woes are the fault of Thatcher based economics. It's all well and good having a strong financial services sector, but at the end of the day you actually have to make stuff. That's why the Germans are in such a strong position relative to the rest of Europe, a strong industrial sector. There's also the fact that she let society go to ****.

Well, by all accounts the British economy is far better now than it was in the 1970's. They had to introduce ridiculous policies like the Three Day Working Week. Then in 1976 they had to apply to the IMF for a bailout. Inflation was out of control.

In New Zealand we had our own radical 80's right wing government which brought New Zealand into the 20th century. The finance minister was Roger Douglas. People love having a go at him too for his policies. But no one advocates repealing his policies! No one suggests fixing the exchange rate, prohibiting imports or raising the top personal tax rate to 66% (maybe the Greens do on the last one). The point is Labour in the UK had 13 years. Either they are terrible for not fixing the problems Thatcher created or Thatcher didn't create any problems. Thatcher left the economy better than she found it. If her policies have turned that same economy to **** afterwards then someone should undo them but it isn't on her. I don't think you can say Blair was incompetent and it's Thatcher's fault!

Also how can one person let society go to ****? If the UK has a poor society then that is the people's collective responsibility.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well, by all accounts the British economy is far better now than it was in the 1970's. They had to introduce ridiculous policies like the Three Day Working Week. Then in 1976 they had to apply to the IMF for a bailout. Inflation was out of control.

In New Zealand we had our own radical 80's right wing government which brought New Zealand into the 20th century. The finance minister was Roger Douglas. People love having a go at him too for his policies. But no one advocates repealing his policies! No one suggests fixing the exchange rate, prohibiting imports or raising the top personal tax rate to 66% (maybe the Greens do on the last one). The point is Labour in the UK had 13 years. Either they are terrible for not fixing the problems Thatcher created or Thatcher didn't create any problems. Thatcher left the economy better than she found it. If her policies have turned that same economy to **** afterwards then someone should undo them but it isn't on her. I don't think you can say Blair was incompetent and it's Thatcher's fault!

Also how can one person let society go to ****? If the UK has a poor society then that is the people's collective responsibility.

Oil crisis bro. There's always context.

 

[LittleGuy]

Oil crisis bro. There's always context.

Well I said I was out of the thread but I lied horribly....An oversimplification ,a factor undoudbtedly but there were massive structural problems, the inflation had begun in the late 60's after the boom slowed down but before the oli crisis. The social programs could only be funded through the hidden tax of inflation, when Thatcher confronted inflation the unemployment rate went up as high 13% it dropped to under 6% by the time she left office. She also(along with all other PM's prior and after) kept the UK out of the Euro currency....and told everyone that Germany would end up carrying the bags for the poorer countries in the Eurozone(and was dead right).

As for society going to ****, look at pre-Thatcher England at the 9:00 minute mark dosen't exactly look like a shining beacon....

 

[nickdnz]

I think Margret Thatcher was a very bitter pill to swollow, but probably one which saved Britian's economy.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well I said I was out of the thread but I lied horribly....An oversimplification ,a factor undoudbtedly but there were massive structural problems, the inflation had begun in the late 60's after the boom slowed down but before the oli crisis. The social programs could only be funded through the hidden tax of inflation, when Thatcher confronted inflation the unemployment rate went up as high 13% it dropped to under 6% by the time she left office. She also(along with all other PM's prior and after) kept the UK out of the Euro currency....and told everyone that Germany would end up carrying the bags for the poorer countries in the Eurozone(and was dead right).

As for society going to ****, look at pre-Thatcher England at the 9:00 minute mark dosen't exactly look like a shining beacon....

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the system was in good shape beforehand and obviously blaming things solely on the oil crisis was incorrect, but I don't believe for a second that abandoning all forms as industry (as Britain essentially did in the 80's and 90's) in favor of a service based economy is a smart model whatsoever.

 

[smartcooky]

She ordered sinking the Belgrano cruiser in neutral waters; she needed that war like water in the desert. Should have been judged for war crimes like all the genocide argentine Junta of that time. It´s a good day for Peace.

That depends on your perspective.

When you invade another country's sovereign territory, and find yourself in a War with that country, then the simple fact is that your warships in international waters are not immune from being sunk.

YOUR perspective is that the Falkland Islands (which you call the Las Malvenas) belong to Argentina; most of the rest of the world, including the United Nations, disagrees with you.

You said it... that Thatcher "needed that war like water in the desert" . It was a serious misjudgement on the part of both Galtieri and Admiral Anaya to think that the Iron Lady would not grab with both hands the chance to flex Britain's military muscles

 

[Superalexmarket]

That depends on your perspective.

When you invade another country's sovereign territory, and find yourself in a War with that country, then the simple fact is that your warships in international waters are not immune from being sunk.

YOUR perspective is that the Falkland Islands (which you call the Las Malvenas) belong to Argentina; most of the rest of the world, including the United Nations, disagrees with you.

You said it... that Thatcher "needed that war like water in the desert" . It was a serious misjudgement on the part of both Galtieri and Admiral Anaya to think that the Iron Lady would not grab with both hands the chance to flex Britain's military muscles

Sorry to say that you are very misinformed about it. The Falklands / Malvinas is within the Committee of the UN Descolonizacion which in its Resolution 2065 recognizes a sovereignty dispute and urges the United Kingdom and Argentina to begin negotiations to reach a peaceful solution. That is the official position of the UN

 

[smartcooky]

Sorry to say that you are very misinformed about it. The Falklands / Malvinas is within the Committee of of the UN Descolizacion which in its Resolution 2065 recognizes a sovereignty dispute and urges the United Kingdom and Argentina to begin negotiations to reach a peaceful solution. That is the official position of the UN

I didn't say the UN regards the Falklands as British.

As you correctly point out they regard them as "in dispute", i.e., they don't belong to Argentina (or Britain) in their view.

 

[Superalexmarket]

I didn't say the UN regards the Falklands as British.

As you correctly point out they regard them as "in dispute", i.e., they don't belong to Argentina (or Britain) in their view.

You know you said something different... courtesy it does not take away your courage .

 

[William18]

Oil crisis bro. There's always context.

Bailed out by the IMF though? That is a national embarrassment. Just thirty years before they fought alone valiantly for world freedom to getting bailed out by the IMF. Who else got bailed out?