Maitland signs with Glasgow

[Darwin]

very good pickup for Scotland/Glasgow, I think if he had got a chance for the All Blacks he would have done the trick. He was probably unlucky not to get a shot, at times I think he was considered the best 14 in NZ but lost out while left wingers, Kahui and Cory Jane got chances. maybe the one pure 14 that got a chance was Masaga and I think he only really got one test or something like that.

I actually think Adam Whitelock genuinely overtook Maitland on form this season, injuries didn't help.

I agree, though it was due to Maitland playing so poorly rather than Whitelock playing great.

 

[nickdnz]

Disagree - Adam Whitelock was a very poor man's Caleb Ralph... Maitland just got utterly wasted last season - I think the criticism is extremely harsh. His work rate in 2010 and 2011 I thought actually very good - last season he didn't seem to have the amazing workrate but was used so sporadically I never thought he really got match fit. I'd have taken him over Zac Guildford any day of the week.

 

[Darwin]

Disagree - Adam Whitelock was a very poor man's Caleb Ralph... Maitland just got utterly wasted last season - I think the criticism is extremely harsh. His work rate in 2010 and 2011 I thought actually very good - last season he didn't seem to have the amazing workrate but was used so sporadically I never thought he really got match fit. I'd have taken him over Zac Guildford any day of the week.

I agree Adam Whitelock is a poor man's Caleb Ralph. He was still better than Maitland last season. Maitland got plenty of chances last season - he played 889 minutes (almost exactly the same as Adam Whitelock, who played 878 minutes), he just didn't play very well.

If we compare the attacking stats of the Crusaders wings last season (courtesy of foxsports.com.au):

Maitland: 889 minutes, 3 tries, 0 try assists, 62 runs, 19 tackle busts, 5 linebreaks, 1 line break created, 1 offload
A Whitelock: 878 minutes, 2 tries, 1 try assists, 52 runs, 13 tackle busts, 5 linebreaks, 1 line break created, 12 offloads
Guildford: 1305 minutes, 8 tries, 4 try assists, 111 runs, 48 tackle busts, 12 linebreaks, 9 line breaks created, 22 offloads

This suggests that for all Maitland's pace he was just as dangerous for the Crusaders last season as a poor mans Caleb Ralph When you factor in Maitland's poor work-rate, and Whitelocks far superior defense you can see why Blackadder preferred Whitelock over the later half of last season. Personally I think it was a 50:50 call between Maitland and A Whitelock last season - I may have actually leaned towards Maitland due to his greater pace, but it wasn't really a clear cut decision.

Maitland's work-rate has always been poor - that is the main reason why he has never been on the AB's selectors radar (coupled with his amazing ability to forget he has 14 team-mates when he gets the ball). He is what I describe a 'highlight reel player' - he looks great on the highlights, but if you watch him closely during the match you see he doesn't actually do much. He is very good when he has the ball in a bit of space, but Guildford is a superior player than him in most aspects. I bet the fact that Guildford keeps carving up the Canes whenever he plays them must be annoying you Nick

 

[nickdnz]

I agree Adam Whitelock is a poor man's Caleb Ralph. He was still better than Maitland last season. Maitland got plenty of chances last season - he played 889 minutes (almost exactly the same as Adam Whitelock, who played 878 minutes), he just didn't play very well.

If we compare the attacking stats of the Crusaders wings last season (courtesy of foxsports.com.au):

Maitland: 889 minutes, 3 tries, 0 try assists, 62 runs, 19 tackle busts, 5 linebreaks, 1 line break created, 1 offload
A Whitelock: 878 minutes, 2 tries, 1 try assists, 52 runs, 13 tackle busts, 5 linebreaks, 1 line break created, 12 offloads
Guildford: 1305 minutes, 8 tries, 4 try assists, 111 runs, 48 tackle busts, 12 linebreaks, 9 line breaks created, 22 offloads

This suggests that for all Maitland's pace he was just as dangerous for the Crusaders last season as a poor mans Caleb Ralph When you factor in Maitland's poor work-rate, and Whitelocks far superior defense you can see why Blackadder preferred Whitelock over the later half of last season. Personally I think it was a 50:50 call between Maitland and A Whitelock last season - I may have actually leaned towards Maitland due to his greater pace, but it wasn't really a clear cut decision.

Maitland's work-rate has always been poor - that is the main reason why he has never been on the AB's selectors radar (coupled with his amazing ability to forget he has 14 team-mates when he gets the ball). He is what I describe a 'highlight reel player' - he looks great on the highlights, but if you watch him closely during the match you see he doesn't actually do much. He is very good when he has the ball in a bit of space, but Guildford is a superior player than him in most aspects. I bet the fact that Guildford keeps carving up the Canes whenever he plays them must be annoying you Nick

Damn you and your damned statistics.

To be fair though - compare that to 2011 where he scored 9 tries and the previous season which he scored 7. Your big criticism of him was his work rate - which is interesting considering he made more carries on average than Adam Whitelock (despite Whitelock playing occasionally at centre...).

Nah - Guildford scoring tries against the Hurricanes doesn't bother me. I was at that game - and he had a relatively good one. When he does score I remember that we have a wingers who can occasionally actually get past the advantage line and beat a man one on one. Guess that's why they're All Blacks and Guildford isn't...

 

[Darwin]

Damn you and your damned statistics.

To be fair though - compare that to 2011 where he scored 9 tries and the previous season which he scored 7. Your big criticism of him was his work rate - which is interesting considering he made more carries on average than Adam Whitelock (despite Whitelock playing occasionally at centre...).

There is no doubt that Maitland was much better in 2010 and 2011 (15 linebreaks in 2010, 10 in 2011) - if he played like that this year there is no way Adam Whitelock would have had a look in.

In terms of work-rate - I don't think the number of carries is an accurate indication of work-rate. For example Cory Jane didn't have that many carries for the Canes this season, but I don't think you could question his work-rate! When I talk of work-rate I usually think of what players are doing when they don't have the ball. Are they making tackles? Are they covering back in defense? Are they chasing kicks hard? Are they helping clear out breakdowns? When Maitland doesn't have the ball he never seems to be doing anything. If the opposition makes a break, rather than chasing back and helping out you will just see him standing with hands on hips hoping his team-mates will clean up. Coaches hate these sort of players (and team-mates don't particularly like them either). This was the same criticism I had of Gear up until about 2 years ago, but he has completely turned it around, and indeed has a very good work-rate these days.

Nah - Guildford scoring tries against the Hurricanes doesn't bother me. I was at that game - and he had a relatively good one. When he does score I remember that we have a wingers who can occasionally actually get past the advantage line and beat a man one on one. Guess that's why they're All Blacks and Guildford isn't...

Gear - 13 caps, 6 tries.
Guildford - 10 caps, 6 tries.


Nah, I would go with Gear over Guildford at the moment (in fact would have all season). Not only has Gear been in better form, the AB's are better balanced with a powerful left wing (I'm 50:50 on whether it should be Gear or Savea) to complement Jane on the right. Guildford is still a good young player (he is still only 23), and I wouldn't be surprised if we see him play many more times for the AB's in future (assuming of course he doesn't go on another drunken rampage...). However I'm sure their will be plenty of competition next season from the likes of Johnny McNicholl (who will score a lot of tries for the Crusaders next year) and Charles Piutau.....

 

[nickdnz]

There is no doubt that Maitland was much better in 2010 and 2011 (15 linebreaks in 2010, 10 in 2011) - if he played like that this year there is no way Adam Whitelock would have had a look in.

In terms of work-rate - I don't think the number of carries is an accurate indication of work-rate. For example Cory Jane didn't have that many carries for the Canes this season, but I don't think you could question his work-rate! When I talk of work-rate I usually think of what players are doing when they don't have the ball. Are they making tackles? Are they covering back in defense? Are they chasing kicks hard? Are they helping clear out breakdowns? When Maitland doesn't have the ball he never seems to be doing anything. If the opposition makes a break, rather than chasing back and helping out you will just see him standing with hands on hips hoping his team-mates will clean up. Coaches hate these sort of players (and team-mates don't particularly like them either). This was the same criticism I had of Gear up until about 2 years ago, but he has completely turned it around, and indeed has a very good work-rate these days.

Gear - 13 caps, 6 tries.
Guildford - 10 caps, 6 tries.


Nah, I would go with Gear over Guildford at the moment (in fact would have all season). Not only has Gear been in better form, the AB's are better balanced with a powerful left wing (I'm 50:50 on whether it should be Gear or Savea) to complement Jane on the right. Guildford is still a good young player (he is still only 23), and I wouldn't be surprised if we see him play many more times for the AB's in future (assuming of course he doesn't go on another drunken rampage...). However I'm sure their will be plenty of competition next season from the likes of Johnny McNicholl (who will score a lot of tries for the Crusaders next year) and Charles Piutau.....

I don't have statistics for metres run without the ball - so I can't comment . I will say I prefered Gear when he actually stayed on the wing. The amount of work he gets through is what I want of my number 6 - not my winger, which ironically is where Adam Thomson seems to end up. Good to see you coming around to Gear though - can't say I didn't see the conversion coming with his move to the Highlanders .

In terms of Guildford - I think those statistics need to be put into perspective.

Gear = 1 v England, 2 v Scotland, 2 v Wales, 1 v Ireland.
Guildford = 2 v South Africa, 4 v Canada.

South Africa were fielding a terrible team also - probably the worst SA team I've ever seen against the All Blacks resulting in a 40-7 win. Sadly I was at both those games (he seems to be best at Westpac Stadium - or just plays well while I'm watching to spite me).

I'd happily take Johnny McNicholl over Guildford - or Chales Piatau (though I'm starting to see him more and more as a fullback). Julian Savea I think should hopefully have the 11 jersey wrapped up (love Gear - but I think the last RWC was really his time to shine and the ******** chose Drinky McGuildford over him) for quite a while. With any luck his fundemental skills will also continue to improve. The right wing is where I think new oppertunities will be for wingers as Jane would struggle to make it to 2015 as he's not a lightening quick winger to start with.

 

[admartian]

Story of the day; work-rate > talent.

Which is why I haven't been chosen for the ABs yet. Just need to get to the training ground is all.

 

[Darwin]

I don't have statistics for metres run without the ball - so I can't comment . I will say I prefered Gear when he actually stayed on the wing. The amount of work he gets through is what I want of my number 6 - not my winger, which ironically is where Adam Thomson seems to end up. Good to see you coming around to Gear though - can't say I didn't see the conversion coming with his move to the Highlanders .

I actually think Gear does in general stay on his wing for the Highlanders. The problem he has at the Highlanders is that we play incredibly laterally. He gets a huge amount of ball - not because he is hitting it up in midfield (which he seldom does), but simply because we go repetitively from side to side. There is ample ball out wide for all three of our wings The ball he does get is usually not in space though, and he is at his best when he has a bit of space to wind up. This should hopefully change next season though with Nonu at 12, which should make us far more direct on attack.

In terms of me coming round to Gear - I don't really think that is the case. It is more of a case of Gear changing into the sort of wing that I (and obviously the AB's selectors) like. This transformation happened well before he came to the Highlanders. To me he really changed as a player after his time with Tietjens in the 7's in 2010. He seemed to get himself incredibly fit and his work-rate off the ball stepped up a huge amount. Everyone was impressed at the tries he scored on the AB's European tour, but what really impressed me was his work-rate and commitment. Whenever the opposition made a break he was often the first one there to chase them down.

In terms of Guildford - I think those statistics need to be put into perspective.

Gear = 1 v England, 2 v Scotland, 2 v Wales, 1 v Ireland.
Guildford = 2 v South Africa, 4 v Canada.

South Africa were fielding a terrible team also - probably the worst SA team I've ever seen against the All Blacks resulting in a 40-7 win. Sadly I was at both those games (he seems to be best at Westpac Stadium - or just plays well while I'm watching to spite me).

Don't worry, I was just winding you up with those stats - I really don't read much into try scoring stats (if I did there is no way Jane would be my first choice AB's wing!). Oh, and just annoy you here is some more Guildford magic at the Caketin

I'd happily take Johnny McNicholl over Guildford - or Chales Piatau (though I'm starting to see him more and more as a fullback). Julian Savea I think should hopefully have the 11 jersey wrapped up (love Gear - but I think the last RWC was really his time to shine and the ******** chose Drinky McGuildford over him) for quite a while. With any luck his fundemental skills will also continue to improve. The right wing is where I think new oppertunities will be for wingers as Jane would struggle to make it to 2015 as he's not a lightening quick winger to start with.

I like Piutau at fullback too, but given the AB's selectors preference for a right wing with fullback skills I think Piutau and McNicholl fit that mold. Though Guildford can play on the right wing he looks far better on the left, and at this stage he is clearly behind both Gear and Savea (and Kahui when he returns).

In terms of Jane lasting to 2015, like you I'm not sure he will. However the fact he has never been a lightening fast wing makes me think he is more likely to perform well into his 30's. Wings that rely on pace often fade as their pace fades, however Jane has never really relied on pace, rather his incredible skill-set. Even if he loses a yard or two of pace his skills will remain, so it wouldn't surprised me if he is still playing top class rugby in 3 years time (though I'm sure there will be plenty of other contenders by then!).

Anyways I should probably get back on topic

 

[welshglory]

That be partly down to Scott Johnson who's remit when he was hired as part of the Scotland coaching setup was to look for good standard of players who could / are qualified for Scotland.

Apparently Gregor Townsend has been chasing him for the past 2 years.