Magners League..is it taken seriously?

[RC]

Which is annoying, because if we'd won that, we'd be Magners League Champions. [/b]

If, if, if...

Life is made up of ifs - get over it.
However if the ospreys miss out on the ***le by a few points this year you will most definately hear me saying,
"If shaun conner had successfully made that kick against cardiff we would have won the magners league!"

 

[Prestwick]

I'm going to get my "ffs Matt get over it already!!!" early then.. :lol:

 

[màiri]

Glasgow will hopefully make this season more exciting for me (not that last season was exciting) but aswell as the good wing play some of the defense in the last 5-10 minutes was pretty good (except when they got near the try-line), how many phases did newcastle go on for and only make it from the half way line to just between the 10 and 22!

Well played Glasgow and defiently the way we want to play in the Magners League!

And when all the internationalists come back we should have an even more formidable force.

So bring it on Saracens!!!


[/b]

I definitely thing the Warriors are going to do great this season. And i'm afraid that with all the players who left Edinburgh and all the problems... We're not gonna do any miracles! I still hope Larkham will join by the way...

 

[ecks tartan army]

whats the latest on larkham? i noticed the other day he has been registered by edinburgh to play in the magners league - are they still hopefull of getting him?

and FFS, why does he still want to come? wouldnt most players get out as quick as possible after the "summer of rugby farce"?

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotemain'> Which is annoying, because if we'd won that, we'd be Magners League Champions. [/b]

If, if, if...

Life is made up of ifs - get over it.
However if the ospreys miss out on the ***le by a few points this year you will most definately hear me saying,
"If shaun conner had successfully made that kick against cardiff we would have won the magners league!"
[/b][/quote]

We're allowed to dream Way I see it is, both teams were good enough to win, and whichever team won deserved it. So the Ospreys were deserved winner because they got that 1 point which the Blues didn't so well done to you boys! It was nice seeing 3 Welsh teams in the top 4 as well, considering 4 years ago, the top three sides were all Irish.

 

[RC]

Very much agreed, buddy.
It's just a shame the Magners league doesn't quite reflect our international status...

 

[màiri]

whats the latest on larkham? i noticed the other day he has been registered by edinburgh to play in the magners league - are they still hopefull of getting him?

and FFS, why does he still want to come? wouldnt most players get out as quick as possible after the "summer of rugby farce"?
[/b]

I still don't know. In the BBC rugby website and in the Scotsman you could read that Larkham wanted to set up his family in Edinburgh, and wanted to play for the team, but he was quite stressed by the fact that he didn't know what was the current situation for the club.
I also know the Stade Toulousain (French Top14) is really interrested in him (as far as their 10 star, Fred Michalak is leaving for South Africa) and that Leeds Carnegie was really interrested in Larkham as well (sources: Guinness Premiership website).
So... I'm afraid that if Edinburgh doesn't give an answer quickly, is gonna go somewhere else. :cryy:

 

[RC]

Thinking about the whole play-offs shenanigans, i really wouldn't like to see that introduced into the magners league.
I mean, i always feel sorry for gloucester when i see how many time they've been cheated out of the ***le recently (yup, i see it as being cheated) and it must be awful for the fans.
If that happened last season and the top 4 were thrown into a playoff, then the final games wouldn't have been half as good becuase they would have simply been designating a home ground. Whereas last year, it was truly nail baiting (something certain english members think the Magners league can't actually produce simply beacuse there's no relegation system) and although there was heartbreak for cardiff and leinster there was also ecstatic glory for the ospreys.
There isn't a better way to win the season.

Then i got to thinking when we (ospreys) last won the ***le. It was in the 05/06 season. We had the ***le won just after Wales won the Grand Slam. It was 26th March and we had only lost a couple of games the whole season. We were awarded the trophy god knows how many games before the end of the season.
So, i'm sorry, if we ended up losing in the semis or the final, then that would have simply proved of how little justice there is in the idea of having a semi and a final to decide the champion of the league.
I'm sure Gloucester would agree. Furiously.

 

[redunderthebed]

Magners league is good i enjoy it throughly but it needs a bit of improvement. It needs a playoff system make it a top 4 where 1 vs 2 3 vs 4 play each other.Have a league cup competition that plays during the midweek.Also if they are going to have more than 4 spots for the HEC make it a play off for them, from 5 to 8th this could give lower teams like connacht a go at making the HEC and those who couldnt make it go into the challenge cup.



You could still reward the team that finishes top at the end of the season with a trophy after all its still a great achievement to do so.



Dont knock playoffs/finals they are great in Australia accross all codes (even in football) they have them.

 

[Vambo]

My own opinion is that the Magners, Guiness Premiership & Super 14 are all devalued due to the international handcuffs placed on many of the teams within them. Whilst the emphasis is on chasing international success this will continue to be so.
The ratings damage already done to the Super 14 due to the withdrawal of so many All Blacks for so many games last season may never be repaired.

RE: Playoffs.
Personally I think they're great. The problem is that at the minute so few clubs & supporters take them seriously. If the system was voted in by 11 clubs out of 12 then I don't understand why only Wasps seem to prepare for them?
In the SL the intensity lifts massively in the playoffs because all six teams give absolutely everything and some incredible games are witnessed. Wigans comeback at Bradford last season will go down in history.

I also believe a playoff system would greatly enhance the Magners League... I watched the game at Borders when The Ospreys picked up the ***le and it was a truly dreadful spectacle and a woeful advert for the Magners League.
Can you imagine the interest a Munster v Leinster playoff final would generate? A game like that would put the Magners League well and truly on the map.

 

[stormmaster1]

Magners league is good i enjoy it throughly but it needs a bit of improvement. It needs a playoff system make it a top 4 where 1 vs 2 3 vs 4 play each other.Have a league cup competition that plays during the midweek.Also if they are going to have more than 4 spots for the HEC make it a play off for them, from 5 to 8th this could give lower teams like connacht a go at making the HEC and those who couldnt make it go into the challenge cup.



You could still reward the team that finishes top at the end of the season with a trophy after all its still a great achievement to do so.



Dont knock playoffs/finals they are great in Australia accross all codes (even in football) they have them.

[/b]

Rewarding the league would undermine the play-offs. Whether it's correct or not it isn't going to happen. I think the playoffs are fair if it's close at the top. If a team is 15 points ahead by the final week, they would be anoyed if they didn't win the play-off. But then if they didn't, would the league be a fair reflection of the teams. In the last few years, the league in the GP has been very close. Last year Glos and Tigers were tied on points. Tigers had 1 point deducted for admin error and both sides (i think certainly tigers in the final weeks) had put out weakened teams to keep the first XV fresh for play-offs. Add all that to the number of games during international windows (including what would have been the ***le decider last seasn at Kingsholm) and it leaves you with a league that doesn't reflect which club is actually the best. At the end of the season, the best team in the GP has won it. last season Tigers were better than Glos. the seasons before Wasps (and it pains me to say it) were the best. they targetted their wins and made sure their 1st 22 was geared up to win the crunch matches. Each time at the end of the season their 1st 22 was the best in England.



In an ideal world the league would reflect the order of clubs, but currently in the GP it doesn't, although it may reward strength in depth. I'll let you decide whether you think the Magners table reflects truly which club is top.

 

[shazbooger]

Nahhh I kinda agree with all of you.
There are problems as Prestwick pointed out. Your performance in this years competition should have an impact on the competitions your play in next year. As it is, all Ulster, Leinster and Munster have to do is finish above Connaught and they qualify for the HEC.
You could just award HEC places to the top 8 teams in the league (kinda daft with only a ten team league though), or maybe guarantee a better seeding depending on where you finish. I dont think there is an easy solution to this. All Magners league needs a few more teasm to give them the flexibilty and possible drawing power, but while we all struggle to stay in the black, the HEC and international games will remain the priority. Thats where the real money is.
The idea of a playoff at the end of the season is a little repulsive to me. You win the league based on your performances over the season, not a last ditch run of form. Just my two cents.

 

[stormmaster1]

Nahhh I kinda agree with all of you.
There are problems as Prestwick pointed out. Your performance in this years competition should have an impact on the competitions your play in next year. As it is, all Ulster, Leinster and Munster have to do is finish above Connaught and they qualify for the HEC.
You could just award HEC places to the top 8 teams in the league (kinda daft with only a ten team league though), or maybe guarantee a better seeding depending on where you finish. I dont think there is an easy solution to this. All Magners league needs a few more teasm to give them the flexibilty and possible drawing power, but while we all struggle to stay in the black, the HEC and international games will remain the priority. Thats where the real money is.
The idea of a playoff at the end of the season is a little repulsive to me. You win the league based on your performances over the season, not a last ditch run of form. Just my two cents. [/b]

That's most people's view of the play-offs. I thought that initially, but i've seen the excitement of play-offs elsewhere and i honestly beleive it is slowly working well in the GP. My biggest problem with the league is that i don't thnk that by the end of the season it is a true reflection of the teams, like it should be.



The idea of linking seeding to ML placing sounds good to me .

 

[ecks tartan army]

play-off's in a seaon like lasts (when 3 teams could still win going into the final weekend) would work - but the problem is it isnt always that close. Take the Scottish prem 1 this season, Bourughmuir have only lost 1 game all season (and have already clinched the ***le) but if we had a play off they could loose form over the remainder of the season (no need to win) and could easilly fall victim to a huingry team in the play-off's.

I believe the team with the most points at the end of the season should lift the ***le. But would it be possible to bring back the Celtic League Cup? perhaps with the top 4 playing 'play-off's' but for the Cup instead? (with the final alternating between Millenium, Lansdowne Road and Murrayfield)

or possibly increase numbers to 8 but have the top 4 seded as home teams (ie. the higher you are the easier your QF will be) Would mean teams well out of the League (like Ulster, Dragons, Ospreys, Glasgow ect this season) still have something to play for the rest of the season. (and would mean a day where supporters of all teams could meet up and enjoy a few beers in the sun - or rain when its held in edinburgh)

 

[redunderthebed]

<div class='quotemain'> Magners league is good i enjoy it throughly but it needs a bit of improvement. It needs a playoff system make it a top 4 where 1 vs 2 3 vs 4 play each other.Have a league cup competition that plays during the midweek.Also if they are going to have more than 4 spots for the HEC make it a play off for them, from 5 to 8th this could give lower teams like connacht a go at making the HEC and those who couldnt make it go into the challenge cup.



You could still reward the team that finishes top at the end of the season with a trophy after all its still a great achievement to do so.



Dont knock playoffs/finals they are great in Australia accross all codes (even in football) they have them.

[/b]

Rewarding the league would undermine the play-offs.

[/b][/quote]

No no it wont ill repeat it again.

Finish top of the league you get a trophy call it a minor premiers or whatever the fark they want to call it.

They could make it a top 6 with the top two teams getting a week off through to the second week (qualifying-final preliminary final and then the big one GF).Or if they want it short a top 4 but i think with the benefit of hindsight the top 6 would be better.

It undermines nothing.

 

[stormmaster1]

Finish top of the league you get a trophy call it a minor premiers or whatever the fark they want to call it.

They could make it a top 6 with the top two teams getting a week off through to the second week (qualifying-final preliminary final and then the big one GF).Or if they want it short a top 4 but i think with the benefit of hindsight the top 6 would be better.

It undermines nothing.
[/b]

When the then zurich premiership started the play-offs, they were viewed as a second rate trophy. Fans didn't like them, teams didn't respect them but the clubs still wanted the cash. Only once the league winners stopped getting a trophy did the play-offs start to mean anything. a league trophy could be given eventually, but right now it would simply be viewed as the real prize and breed distrust and dislike of the play-offs as happened in England.

 

[thrustfulemu]

Yeah I reckon if there was a bit more incentive for team in this league we would see some really good teams deveopling and maybe some better players entering the league I know here in that ulster take it very seriously

 

[Nat]

From what I have seen the ML is of a good standard. Irish and Welsh teams in this league give a good account of themselves. Thanks to Sententa being in AUS now I can get a look of the Northern teams and I rate them rather highly, infact the standard of refs is a way ahead of the S14. I would like to see the Champions of the HEC and the Champions of the S14 face off in a World Club Cup like they have in league. I would be a great money spinner and bragging rights would be great motivation for the teams!

 

[sionlikesmusic]

honestly, i would say that the ML isn't taken seriously but i think there's a number of reasons why.

from a general point of view, there are hardly any teams that consistently put out their first XV which obviously makes it harder for consistency overall. and it's hard for the fans as well as the players. when you see your team beat stade francais convincingly and then slump to a 6 - 3 win over the dragons, or whatever it was, then you lose heart because you wonder what the hell is going on. and let's be honest, no-one would want to watch a leauge that throws up the most inconsistent results going.

from a welshman's point of view, the welsh regions aren't living up to the standards that have been set (in particular, this year) by the national team. the fact that the majority of the welsh team that won the grand slam came from the ospreys, and then what was more or less the same team lost to the saracens in a game that they could've (and maybe should've) won is beyond belief. granted, there are teams like the dragons who don't have the same funding or resources as other regions, but if that is such a factor, then why do we see the better off teams like the scarlets, the blues and the ospreys still put on appaling displays of rugby?

personally, at this moment in time, i don't think the ML can be taken seriously because i don't think the teams that are involved in it take it as seriously i.e. the classic situation with munster not fielding their first team hardly ever. and until that changes, i can't see this image of it being a second rate competition changing.

however, another point i'd like to make is the refereeing. i know it's easy to point the finger, but honestly, the reffing can be as bad, if not worse, than the games themselves, and on occasions, i've felt that the reffing has had some effect on the nature of the games. what is embarrassing and humbling is that there are people who will defend the ML to the death when it's compared to it's english counterpart, but when an RFU ref came and took a game in cardiff, it was one of the best displays of reffing the ML has ever seen. what kind of an impression does that give?

rant over.

 

[Prestwick]

The fact that the majority of the welsh team that won the grand slam came from the ospreys, and then what was more or less the same team lost to the saracens in a game that they could've (and maybe should've) won is beyond belief. [/b]

Oh boo hoo, Saracens came out all guns blazing during that legendary HEC QF and the Ospreys couldn't handle the pressure. Thats what happened. Saracens showed class and anyway, its hard to beat a team that had a living God playing for them at the time...